Old house 2 Wire

[NUTTSGT]

I too wanted to ask about wire Gauge!
I helped rewire a couple of very old houses back in the mid-80's. All the wire in them was 14ga with VERY FEW 12ga wires! Both of these were 4 fuse 60A Service Panels being updated to Breaker Panels. Rooms were daisy chained so if a fuse blew another room or two would go dark!
Heck, one place had a 14ga wire going out to the attached garage outlet that had a 30 amp fuse on it!

That's why I asked.

It's common to see 30amp fuses screwed in where it should be a 15A and the entire house having 14 gauge wire. Anybody can swap out a fuses, no different than screwing in a light bulb.

95% of the people out there aren't going to swap out a breaker in a panel. The 5% that can or will swap/install breaker, maybe a half percent of them would swap a 15A breaker for a 20 or 30A breaker.. . . I'm talking everyday folks, not electricians or DIY'ers.

 

[sberry]

As old houses got added on to the carpenter found any circuit, often the first one ever put in and added on to it, I have seen this connected to every room in a house, new additions dont take any load off,, ya, its got 3 new circuits but all the work still fone on the first. They blow, it gets a bigger fuse. I was in one recent had 2 circuits to 3 bedroom 2 story house, all of it, 3/4 of it incl kitchen and bath on one old one with a 30, both had 30 and only thing on a third was the furnace.

 

[NUTTSGT]

As old houses got added on to the carpenter found any circuit, often the first one ever put in and added on to it, I have seen this connected to every room in a house, new additions dont take any load off,, ya, its got 3 new circuits but all the work still fone on the first. They blow, it gets a bigger fuse. I was in one recent had 2 circuits to 3 bedroom 2 story house, all of it, 3/4 of it incl kitchen and bath on one old one with a 30, both had 30 and only thing on a third was the furnace.

Yep, they really shine in the Winter with electric heaters running full bore on the same circuit. The they kick on the microwave.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My house was built in 1950 and has some old ungrounded wiring. There's lots of more modern stuff too. The previous owner installed electric baseboard heat and a 200 amp service.

The original wiring mostly does lights now. I don't have any light fixtures that hold heat to the ceiling. And it is 14 gauge.

The previous owner also installed some modern grounded receptacles in a few spots without a ground wire. I swapped in GFCIs to protect all the old wiring circuits.

GFCIs dont protect wiring. They protect the user.

 

[acer66]

As old houses got added on to the carpenter found any circuit, often the first one ever put in and added on to it, I have seen this connected to every room in a house, new additions dont take any load off,, ya, its got 3 new circuits but all the work still fone on the first. They blow, it gets a bigger fuse. I was in one recent had 2 circuits to 3 bedroom 2 story house, all of it, 3/4 of it incl kitchen and bath on one old one with a 30, both had 30 and only thing on a third was the furnace.

Haha so true, in a 1947 groundskeepers house a circuit traveled through out the whole house.
From bedroom over back porch through the kitchen passing the dining room ending in the living room.

 

[MikeF2316]

GFCIs dont protect wiring. They protect the user.

Yes, I didn't phrase that properly. What you said is what I meant. All the old 14 gauge wiring is on 15 amp breakers.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Although the OP seems to be gone, I have to say that saving the 74 year old cables in the house does not qualify as "renovation" to me any more than saving 74 year old galvanized pipe would.

 

[MatBirch]

In the middle of a complete rewire myself. Everything goes! And I’m so glad that the collective here convinced me to just do it all and not piece it together.

Here’s a great example of the **** I’m finding-
No box, no wire nuts. Just taped up and hidden in the wall several inches below the box the outlet was in.

 

[stickshift]

In the middle of a complete rewire myself. Everything goes! And I’m so glad that the collective here convinced me to just do it all and not piece it together.

Here’s a great example of the **** I’m finding-
No box, no wire nuts. Just taped up and hidden in the wall several inches below the box the outlet was in.

Are you doing the rewiring as part of a whole house remodel? Asking because I noticed the drywall is still up. I suspect much of the original wiring in my house is stapled, so there's no pulling it. It would just have to be abandoned and new cable pulled. Absent a whole house remodel, it would be a ton of work with lots of drywall cutting, patching, and painting. Maybe not a bad idea to pull a cable when painting a room.

Fortunately nothing I've seen in the normal course of updating things is as ridiculous as an in-wall splice using just tape.

 

[MatBirch]

Are you doing the rewiring as part of a whole house remodel? Asking because I noticed the drywall is still up. I suspect much of the original wiring in my house is stapled, so there's no pulling it. It would just have to be abandoned and new cable pulled. Absent a whole house remodel, it would be a ton of work with lots of drywall cutting, patching, and painting. Maybe not a bad idea to pull a cable when painting a room.

Fortunately nothing I've seen in the normal course of updating things is as ridiculous as an in-wall splice using just tape.

Nope, no remodel. I had a ton of difficulty getting insurance when we bought the place in September. Seems the rules of the game are changing with regards to old wiring.
Some of the old wiring is definitely being abandoned. Just no way to get it out. One tip I got from these guys though is not to worry about the old. I’m just planning out a new circuit, planning a new route for my new wire, and working circuit by circuit, room by room. Ripping out and/or abandoning the old as I go.
I haven’t had too much drywall damage yet. I had to relocate one outlet. Just used the cutout from the new to plug the old. I’m also swapping out all the old metal boxes with plastic. Removing the old has added a little work here and there around the cutouts, but it hasn’t been to bad. One run so far, I couldn’t drop down to the crawl space, and back up where I needed. There is an air return duct in the way. I could have cut into it and gone through it, but I opted to pull the baseboards. That room needs paint badly anyway.

With regards to choosing to leave any old wiring, I see a lot of comments like- “The old cloth insulation looks good.”
That may be, but aside from the temp ratings of the new vs old, the resistance on the old has got to be crazy high! I cut a pair in order to temporarily get a couple outlets working. Probably cut about 10-15 FEET from either end. The copper inside was black. Not burned black, but oxidation black. Black like someone had painted it. Black enough to make me second guess what type of wire it was, if there was another layer of insulation I should be removing, etc. It made me wonder if just the wire nut was going to be enough to get conductivity.

 

[stickshift]

Some of the old wiring is definitely being abandoned. Just no way to get it out. One tip I got from these guys though is not to worry about the old.

For sure. The drawback is that old wire that can be pulled makes it much easier because it allows you to pull new wire to exactly where you want it. Plus it uses a known good path. Sure you can trace out a new path, but without xray vision, that new path may run into obstacles, as you experienced with that air duct. That said, if the old wire isn't pullable, you have no choice.

I’m also swapping out all the old metal boxes with plastic.

I assume you're using the pvc boxes with the flags at two corners that pop up and press against inside of the drywall as you screw it down. If you run into any situations where those don't work, these old work metal boxes are good.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Steel-City-1-Gang-3-in-Old-Work-Metal-Switch-Box-with-NMSC-Clamps-CWN-25R/202591775
They get held in place by these straps: https://www.homedepot.com/p/RACO-Switch-Box-Old-Work-Supports-2-Pack-8977/100547662

One benefit of these boxes is you've got big fat holes to pull cable into the box unlike those pvc boxes where the flap/clamp makes pulling #12 romex a bit of a hassle. And at 2-3/4" deep, they have a good amount of interior space. You would have to put in a ground screw and attach ground wire.

With regards to choosing to leave any old wiring, I see a lot of comments like- “The old cloth insulation looks good.”
That may be, but aside from the temp ratings of the new vs old, the resistance on the old has got to be crazy high! I cut a pair in order to temporarily get a couple outlets working. Probably cut about 10-15 FEET from either end. The copper inside was black. Not burned black, but oxidation black. Black like someone had painted it. Black enough to make me second guess what type of wire it was, if there was another layer of insulation I should be removing, etc. It made me wonder if just the wire nut was going to be enough to get conductivity.

Wow. Original wiring here is cloth covered, but the solid copper conductors look pretty decent, nothing like the black oxidation you're describing. I feel pretty good about my old wiring now, thanks!

I found your house wiring thread. Hope you keep it updated, as I'll be curious to follow your progress.

I saw someone mentioned in your thread those long flex drill bits. If you try those, get the guide tool as well - that makes holding the bit in a flexed position quite a bit more manageable.