Old U-Circle Craftsman tools - what to do?

[EOC_Jason]

I got a toolbox of old craftsman tools (among other things), and most are in really good shape. The one thing I've noticed is they all have the circle-u on them, meaning they were made by Plomb/Penens, circa 1944 - 1948...

I'm okay with using older tools, I definitely don't abuse them. But for some reason anything before 1950 kind of makes me question whether it's okay to be a regular tool or should it be more for a collector?

Prices for the U-Circle seem to be all over the place on eBay... So I'm not really sure if they are collectable or someone just really wants a certain set from time to time.

The little ridgid pipe wrench in the box too dates somewhere between 1929-1932. Everything in that box is just OLD, but they are good quality, know what I mean?

What are your guys opinions? Okay to use? Or more collectable and set aside?

 

[A E Numan]

They are in such nice shape, I would squirrel them away. Vintage tools that nice need to be saved for future collectors!

 

[kwoswalt99]

The one thing I've noticed is they all have the circle-u on them, meaning they were made by Plomb/Penens, circa 1944 - 1948...

There is an ongoing debate as to who made the sockets. The rest is definitely Plomb.

 

[four.cycle]

Okay... so how much are you wanting for it?

But seriously: I attempted to get a handle on "sold" prices on early Craftsman "Circle H" and "BE" 1/4" drive sets over a year ago. I actually kept at it for a few months; checking Ebay listings, posting them here (in a thread I've completely forgotten about now), and following up with the "sold" prices or changes in asking prices.
Bottom line: there is no way to figure out any "average selling prices" on used vintage tools on Ebay. None. Zip. Nada.

I picked up an older 1/2" drive set (sockets only) recently for $6.50. Only one other person bid on it, and I have reason to believe it was the seller, otherwise I'd have gotten it for 99 cents.
An almost complete Proto 1/4" drive socket set (with all the doo-dads and box) went yesterday morning for $12 bucks + shipping. (Box was rough but tools were in great condition.)
Yesterday a 14-piece set of Bonney open-end angle wrenches sold for $400.00 as a "buy now" item. (NOT an auction.)

There is no second-guessing Ebay buyers.

One thing I can say for certain: 1/2" drive SAE stuff is dead. It's just not selling. If it is selling, it's not selling for very much. (Check recent "sold" prices in the "Ebay hot deals" thread that I've posted during the last month, and consider that I don't post garbage in that thread - I'm pretty picky.)
You have the advantage of having a full set of sockets (including a 19/32" even!) and all the drive accessories, all matched, all with the same production codes.
There's some guy out there who will be happy to give you $125 - $150 for that set, but you might be a long time awaiting his arrival.

I would: clean them up, wipe them down with some lubricant so they don't rust, and stash them in a warm dry place for a few years and think about it.

Right now, this week, Ebay sales on vintage tools are way down. I am seeing lots of stuff go for one bid. Maybe everybody spent all their money on Christmas presents.
And, as GJ member ssdave pointed out (and something I've observed to be true) Ebay sales plummet during the summer months; July and August were just dead.

Looks like a hell of a nice set. If it were mine, I'd keep it. But then, I'm just a tool hoarder - what do I know?

Just my two cents, of course.

==

Completely off-topic, but since you got me talking about this:
If it's "EASCO" or "Action" brand, you almost can't give it away. Price doesn't matter- nobody wants it.

 

[EOC_Jason]

LOL... Thanks for the feedback...

Let me be clear... I'm not planning on selling. I'm just trying to decide whether to "use" or if they would be merely for "show" (i.e. collecting)... I was looking on eBay to get a sense of value... If prices are nil, then of course I would just go ahead and use. If they were like those Billups motor oil cans then collectors items they would be!

I'm a hoarder too... If I don't have a particular something I keep, but if I have duplicates then I try to find them a good home if possible.

 

[Bdgjr215]

I wouldn't use them seeing as though a newer set would be so cheap,especially if you
Collect tools.

 

[thehorse13]

Not only would I use them, I would trust them to perform above and beyond many modern tool sets.

 

[ssdave]

I'd use them. Craftsman produced so many millions of tools sets that there's very little collector value to them. As more and more older folks are dying off and their kids don't do mechanical work, they are re-entering the market 60 years later. This will be happening for most of the rest of our lifetimes; you won't hold onto those tools long enough for them to appreciate much more in value. Collector value occurs when old folks long to own the coveted items of their youth that they couldn't afford then or that they discarded in middle age and now want back. Craftsman doesn't fall well into that category, as most people could afford to buy them and did, and kept them.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Collector value occurs when old folks long to own the coveted items of their youth that they couldn't afford then or that they discarded in middle age and now want back.

LOL, which is why I'm selling an old Nintendo NES and a Coleco table-top Pac-Man game on eBay... Put off cleaning out your closet long enough, that junk from when you were a kid becomes worth something.

 

[Username already in use]

Not only would I use them, I would trust them to perform above and beyond many modern tool sets.

Nice set of drive tools. I have a (U) set in 3/8" drive. Quality tools.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Not only would I use them, I would trust them to perform above and beyond many modern tool sets.

^^^^ What he said. Those things will still be going strong years after 3 or 4 new sets have been trashed

 

[EOC_Jason]

Any tips on how to clean the rust out of the INSIDE of the sockets?

 

[Jeremy77]

Any tips on how to clean the rust out of the INSIDE of the sockets?

Using them will do the trick! WD-40 Rust Remover soak has also done wonders for me when it comes to corrosion on older tools.

 

[woody 73]

Some guys on the GJ would say use them that is what they are for.

Others would say being that old put them away with care for the next generation to enjoy

Still others would put them up for sale in a heartbeat.

While others would take apart the full set to sell in order to help others complete a full set for more money.

Your call...Just keep in mind if you break just one you can not run to sears for a true replacement from that time period.

What would I do as a collector that one is easy, take good care of that set and let the next generation get enjoyment out of it.

 

[four.cycle]

Sure, you could use them. No doubt they'd perform just fine. Problem is, as mentioned, in the event you should crack that 5/8" socket, you're going to do a lot of searching finding a matching replacement.

Respectfully, I have to disagree with Dave's comment above. I have seen many Craftsman sets sell on Ebay for absolutely crazy prices - some of the little 1/4" drive =V= sets for upwards of $80 bucks. Again, 1/2" drive (for whatever reason) doesn't seem to command those kinds of prices, but given time, I have reason to believe they will appreciate in value as the supply (which currently seems to be never-ending) starts to dwindle. That might be a few years down the road yet, but from here it does not appear that the older ("circle U", "circle H", and "BE") stuff is in any way depreciating in value.

On that note, I have to wonder if Dave is looking at it through his own prism as an Ebay seller - the polar opposite of me looking at Ebay strictly as a buyer.
Single pieces, onesie-twosies, incomplete sets, mismatched sets, and stuff that's rusty, broken, or beat to hell isn't going to get top dollar. The insane sky-high "sold" prices I see are on complete sets, in the original box, with all the little doo-dads. There's nutty guys (like me) out there who are willing to pay for that stuff, and I seriously doubt they're putting it to use.

I submit to you, Jason: did I try to beat you down on the price of the box?

As always, just my lousy two cents.

 

[EOC_Jason]

All very true, and interesting diversified points of view.

Like I said before, I'm not planning on selling the 1/2" set because it's pretty complete. It would make more sense to keep it with other CMan tools in that box that were probably purchased at the same time. I will clean off the rust and oil them well. Not sure I will really use them *much*... I typically prefer 1/2" drive because I'm always working on larger stuff, but I also prefer 6pt sockets so I'm not rounding stuck nuts/bolts. I also typically use metric 90% of the time it seems. So if these get used it would be in a more gentler fashion for an oddball size I just don't happen to have in any of my other sockets or wrenches.

The three oddball 3/8" sockets I will probably sell. It's too few that I don't even want to attempt to try and complete a set from that era starting with just 3, lol. Also the oddball snap-on I'll probably sell. Probably not right away, I'm sure they will sit in a box for a few years first, lol. Never know what pops up in the "wanted" section of GJ. I try to keep those onsies twosies around because there is always someone that ends up just needing that one and doesn't want to pay stupid prices for it.

I don't know why there was the 1/4" drive ratchet, but no sockets to go with that, not even an adapter. Also there was no 3/8" ratchet even though there were those few 3/8" sockets. Must have been in a different box or on a bench or someone else just picked & choose before I found that at the pawn shop. I'll keep that little 1/4" ratchet, it's missing the selector lever but I think I can fab something similar to get it working again. The internals are in really great shape, especially considering their age.

All that said, I guess if someone did offer me some seriously stupid insane price because they just *had* to have them... I probably wouldn't hesitate to sell then... lol.

 

[ssdave]

Four.cycle, I'm looking at this through the filter of being a hoarder trying to eliminate clutter from my life. I've saved a lot of really neat old stuff for a long time. I finally came to the realization that having a lot of stuff that accumulates and really isn't a unique or rare collection is a burden, not an advantage.

So, I've sold a lot of stuff, and feel a lot better for it. If I collect the item, it is worth saving for my collection. If it is just neat and old, but not of any use to me, it goes away. If it is neat and old but not really collectible, and I can use it, I use it and use it up. If it is neat and old and has no value, I throw it away, or donate it to the salvation army.

What I am really trying not to do is save stuff that is marginally collectible in the hopes that it will go up in value as it becomes more rare. I'm getting far enough into the later stages of life to realize that most things like that are going to be valuable long after I'm gone. The space is much more valuable to me than the investment potential gain. And, I don't want to burden my heirs with hard to identify and get rid of stuff.

Not everyone is in that situation, and I understand collector interest in this old stuff. I just don't see it reflected in the prices that stuff sells for now, except in complete, good condition sets, preferably in the box it came in.

 

[bluebolt]

My "Collector" Craftsman stays in the house garage where it gets lighter use and not as frequent. The big shop tools are pretty much strictly work tools.

 

[four.cycle]

Dave, make no mistake: I understand and appreciate and respect your position fully. I would dread the thought of having to move - I'd have to rent four 26-foot U-Hauls. I seem to have a propensity for accumulating stuff.
Weird thing is, there have been more than a few instances during my life where I said "the hell with it" and pretty much got rid of everything I owned and then started over again. Maybe I'm getting to the peak of that curve again.

And.... maybe I'm assuming that Jason is much younger and has a big house and a big garage and all kinds of room and has kids he can pass stuff down to. Maybe those assumptions are all wrong.

 

[EOC_Jason]

And.... maybe I'm assuming that Jason is much younger and has a big house and a big garage and all kinds of room and has kids he can pass stuff down to. Maybe those assumptions are all wrong.

LMAO... To answer your assumptions:

39
3-car garage (though truck is parked in the 2-car side)
No kids

I am not a tool hoarder or collector, there are many good deals on stuff I've passed up simply because it was too big or would get little to no use use and would be in my way. I'm conscience of the space I have to work, and I would much rather have the open floor space to lay out my projects than have to move everything out of the garage each time I want to do something like some people. For instance, even though I would love a nice compound miter saw, table saw, and such, I just have my trusty old Makita 5007F. Sure it can be slower to do a job but for how much it gets used vs the small amount of space it takes up, and its cost... it's more than an acceptable trade-off.

I don't let all the little deals go. If I see some good quality hand tools or even used power tools for dirt cheap, I'll grab them for a friend that I know could use them.

I've kind of had to start from square one in the garage since moving about a year ago, but at least at my age I know what tools I do use, and which ones I don't...

If you want to talk about moving a crapton of stuff... I remember way back in college I worked at the arena. We were setting up for a garth brooks concert... He had ELEVEN semi loads of gear... ELEVEN... that had to be unloaded in a particular order... and after the concerts had to all get loaded back up...

 

[four.cycle]

Hey, I got one out of three! You're 2/3 my age and you've got three times as much garage!

 

[tym]

Sure, you could use them. No doubt they'd perform just fine. Problem is, as mentioned, in the event you should crack that 5/8" socket, you're going to do a lot of searching finding a matching replacement.

This is a good point. OP, if you'd feel badly if you messed up that 5/8" socket (or any part of that set), then I'd say reserve it for light use or squirrel away as a collector item.

If you don't mind adding some wabi, then go ahead and use 'em as you want--they're yours, after all!

Personally, I have a bunch of Craftsman tools I bought 10+ years ago that are my everyday beat-around tools. I don't feel bad if they get messed up a little, and I keep the vintage stuff for occasional specialty use. For example, I needed to use a BE 1/2" drive ratchet to swap out a bumper on the '69 Camaro as none of my other stuff had sockets big enough.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Was cleaning out the toolbox today and examining other tools in there.

A couple cold-chisels: Kraeuter & Old Forge
Lots of wrenches: Lectrolite, Hinsdale, Barcalo
Some nice Vigor (made in sweden) nips, very good quality!
A little Starrett like a jewelers screwdriver
Sears pliers
Allen wrenches in a leather pouch
A makita 1/2" spade bit, MADE IN USA!
Old little metal measuring stick. Says Geophysical Supply Co. on the back, I looked up the address and it's now a parking lot, but the searched the company and they still exist at a different address! I'm going to email them and see if maybe they want this (for free of course). They have been around since the 30's.
I found a couple more 3/8" drive sockets, one was old CMan, the other was a Plomb 7/16 WF-28

A couple wrenches just had what looks like a Shield with a "V" in it. Another has a Circle-M? Anyone?

Ignore the levels & blocks of wood, I was moving that workbench and forgot to move them out of the way.

 

[EOC_Jason]

More Pics...

 

[davethorik]

The Geophysical Supply rule is just advertising, I doubt they'd want it

 

[EOC_Jason]

The Geophysical Supply rule is just advertising, I doubt they'd want it

Oh I know that, no different than those screwdrivers with company info. But some small companies I've been to have little display cases of do-dads from over the years / decades just showing how long they've been in business... You never know.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Surprise surprise, I got an email from them!

Thanks for pictures, out of curiosity what part of the country did you buy the old tool box? We are a family run business and my Dad went to work for the original owners in 1973 and my parents purchased the company in 1992. We have lots of old things from the old owners but we have never seen one of those. My Dad figures that is probably the late 40 or early 50’s.

If you can send it to us that would be awesome...

 

[four.cycle]

"...a Shield with a "V" in it. Another has a Circle-M?"

The "V" in the shield is Vlchek
The "M" in the circle is most likely Moore Drop Forge

compare with images at bottom of page here:
http://alloy-artifacts.org/trademarks-and-logos.html

 

[EOC_Jason]

That's them, thanks for the link! Here's a better pic of the circle-m on the funky combo wrench..

 

[Smokeshow69]

Not only would I use them, I would trust them to perform above and beyond many modern tool sets.

And we have a winner!!! Just be nice to them but still break out the tools now and then! I have a section on my plvmb tool boards for the craftman labeled stuff but am working to fill them in with the circle u marks! Nice pick up

 

[EOC_Jason]

I think I'm going to try and clean up the toolbox (not restore it because it's not that bad, but at least get the rust off and oiled or something). Clean up the CMan tools and store them in that box along with a few other vintage CMan stuff I have. But I really want to keep all those tools together since I know they were more than likely purchased together being all stamped with the circle-u.