Outlet Box Screws for Ceiling Fan

[Foozer52]

I'm in a classic scenario where something that seems simple keeps hitting roadblocks...

I'm trying to install a ceiling fan. The home is a new build from 2 years back and already had pre-wiring, the outlet box in the ceiling, and the screws were underneath the cover for it. I attempted to mount the hardware to the outlet box in step one for the fan, but the screws won't go any deeper. They are obviously the original screws for the outlet box, but they seem to be too long? Basically I hit a point of resistance that my drill or hand tightening can't go past.

Should I get new shorter screws (seems like a bad idea for a ceiling fan mount)? Or is there some other solution (feeling like spacers aren't a good idea for a ceiling fan either)? Any insight into what I am missing would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[The Cobbler]

have you actually determined that they are too long? or is something else at play?
is it a fan rated box?

 

[Foozer52]

have you actually determined that they are too long? or is something else at play?

Thanks for the reply and I apologize if I sound naive, but what else would be at play?

They are for sure the screws made for the box, but they don't seem to be able to go any deeper.

 

[Foozer52]

Thanks for the reply and I apologize if I sound naive, but what else would be at play?

They are for sure the screws made for the box, but they don't seem to be able to go any deeper.

It gets to a point where a drill started stripping the head of the first one. Then I tried hand tightening the second one on the other side and I couldn't get it to go any tighter with about a 1/2 inch remaining to tighten fully flush.

 

[The Cobbler]

you should be able to see if the screw is too long. how deep is the box, how long are the screws/
is the screw threaded all the way to the head/

 

[whateg01]

As long as they go in far enough, shorter screws should be fine. Every ceiling fan I've installed had a heavy bracket though. It didn't rely on little #6 screws so I'm not sure what screws you are trying to install.

 

[Foozer52]

The screws and mounting bracket in question, as well as the max depth I seem to be able to get them screwed in before the head starts stripping.

 

[Foozer52]

The screws and mounting bracket in question, as well as the max depth I seem to be able to get them screwed in before the head starts stripping.

You can actually see the white paint that has been removed from the screw and that about a half inch remains before it would be fully set to where the threads stop.

 

[The Cobbler]

those are not the right screws for the box.
now you've screwed up the threads in the box.
the box comes with machine screws, you have self tappers there

 

[Foozer52]

those are not the right screws for the box.

I fully believe you seeing as how much trouble they are giving me, but why else would they have been up there attached to the outlet box? You can see the outline in the paint where they were previously held by little clasps on the outlet box.

 

[The Cobbler]

because some one didn't know or care what they were doing

 

[Foozer52]

because some one didn't know or care what they were doing

Dang. That's a real shame. Should I just be contacting an electrician at this point? It sounds like for a ceiling fan I may not be able to trust other screws now.

 

[The Cobbler]

that looks like a plastic box, doubtful it's fan rated (IM0)

 

[The Cobbler]

for your's & everyone's safety , yes I would call an electrician

 

[Foozer52]

for your's & everyone's safety , yes I would call an electrician

Thanks. Appreciate your responses.

 

[Meursault74]

those are not the right screws for the box.
now you've screwed up the threads in the box.
the box comes with machine screws, you have self tappers there

I thought the exact same thing when I saw the threads on those screws.

 

[sparky 1971]

That may or may not be a fan rated box, I can't tell from the picture. There are fan rated boxes that are plastic and have a metal bracket on the back for the screws to thread in to.. That white plastic thing is part of the blank cover assembly. Throw it away. The fixture screws go in the holes that are currently occupied by the plastic strip.

 

[Foozer52]

That may or may not be a fan rated box, I can't tell from the picture. There are fan rated boxes that are plastic and have a metal bracket on the back for the screws to thread in to.. That white plastic thing is part of the blank cover assembly. Throw it away. The fixture screws go in the holes that are currently occupied by the plastic strip.

After some investigating, this is starting to look like the correct response. I was told the box was wired for ceiling fans when we purchased the home. The screws actually do fit properly in the holes you mentioned and after removing the plastic bracket. The only challenge is that on one of the screws I have stripped the head too far. So I may need to just replace those, but I may still bring in a professional just to be sure. This is a plastic, ceiling fan rated box that look the exact same as the one we have btw: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerc...n-Box-with-Plastic-Cover-CPB13NM-SM/205383211

 

[sparky 1971]

After some investigating, this is starting to look like the correct response. I was told the box was wired for ceiling fans when we purchased the home. The screws actually do fit properly in the holes you mentioned and after removing the plastic bracket. The only challenge is that on one of the screws I have stripped the head too far. So I may need to just replace those, but I may still bring in a professional just to be sure. This is a plastic, ceiling fan rated box that look the exact same as the one we have btw: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerc...n-Box-with-Plastic-Cover-CPB13NM-SM/205383211

That's a fan rated box and those are the screws. I had forgotten about that style. The screws are actually are going to screw into the wood framing above. You stripped the phillips head out, but should still be able to use a 5/16" hex head driver, or just get new #10X1-1/4" or 1-1/2" long hex head sheetmetal screws for it.

Edit: I didn't take into account the depth of the box. You better make it #10X2" sheet metal screws if you go that route.

 

[The Cobbler]

wow, so they were the right screws. I take back all I said .

 

[Foozer52]

That's a fan rated box and those are the screws. I had forgotten about that style. The screws are actually are going to screw into the wood framing above. You stripped the phillips head out, but should still be able to use a 5/16" hex head driver, or just get new #10X1-1/4" or 1-1/2" long hex head sheetmetal screws for it.

Edit: I didn't take into account the depth of the box. You better make it #10X2" sheet metal screws if you go that route.

Appreciate your response. It looks like I just need replacement screws now and I should be set. Everything else is really straightforward. Thank you!

 

[PCustoms]

Appreciate your response. It looks like I just need replacement screws now and I should be set. Everything else is really straightforward. Thank you!

Just use a wrench, nut driver or socket on the screw you have.

 

[larry4406]

OP

That box looks like the boxes our electrician's use for fan rough-ins. It is made by Arlington. See attached cut sheet.

There are two lag screws stowed (parked) inside the box. These get used to secure your fan's bracket directly to the framing member. The lone middle screw in the center of the box only holds the box to the framing member at time of rough-in.

Throw away that translucent piece. Its only purpose was to hold the circular blank cover.

 

[larry4406]

The Arlington style fan box is a nice unit, quite robust.

It confuses many people and many so called electricians.

I have gone to many a house to walk customers off their high-horse ledge, hand them a copy of the cut sheet, and then train their contractor in front of them on how to do the job. I now give customers a copy of the fan box cut sheet at time of settlement.

 

[nadogail]

OP

That box looks like the boxes our electrician's use for fan rough-ins. It is made by Arlington. See attached cut sheet.

There are two lag screws stowed (parked) inside the box. These get used to secure your fan's bracket directly to the framing member. The lone middle screw in the center of the box only holds the box to the framing member at time of rough-in.

Throw away that translucent piece. Its only purpose was to hold the circular blank cover.

Back when i was retrofitting fans in existing houses, i don't believe those boxes were available. I used the boxes with the expanding steel bar and demonstrated their strength to my customer by hanging my body weight from the box.

 

[theoldwizard1]

is it a fan rated box?

Major SAFETY ISSUE !

 

[theoldwizard1]

That may or may not be a fan rated box,

I have never seen a "fan rated" plastic box !

 

[sparky 1971]

I have never seen a "fan rated" plastic box !

You have now.

 

[sparky 1971]

Major SAFETY ISSUE !

It is a fan rated box. It mounts to the bottom of a joist or truss with the junction box on one side. The screws that secure the fan actually go through the box and into the framing. Read the prior posts and look at the pictures/click on the link. The link in post #18 is for the box that is the topic of discussion. I had forgotten about that style when I made my initial post since I've never actually used one of those, but was aware of several other kinds of plastic fan boxes.

Here are links for a couple of styles that I have used in the past.

https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-boxes-covers/electrical-boxes/southwire-smartbox-trade-1-gang-24-cu-in-pvc-ceiling-fan-fixture-electrical-box/msbfan/p-7720120058393403-c-6425.htm?tid=2833516771244338174&ipos=5

https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-boxes-covers/electrical-boxes/legrand-reg-slater-reg-1-gang-20-cu-in-pvc-electrical-ceiling-box-with-side-bracket/s120jfan/p-1444451208806-c-6425.htm?tid=-2007039958077864448&ipos=32

 

[justsam]

Thanks to the OP and responders to this post as I may be encountering one of these "fan prepped" boxes and did not know they existed and would have been looking for the extended armed braced boxes. My sister in law just bought a new home in Utah and may want some fans installed. I did not see what was roughed in and if these it may have thrown me a curve. Looks like a good solid way to tie into real structure with the fan.

 

[sparky 1971]

Thanks to the OP and responders to this post as I may be encountering one of these "fan prepped" boxes and did not know they existed and would have been looking for the extended armed braced boxes. My sister in law just bought a new home in Utah and may want some fans installed. I did not see what was roughed in and if these it may have thrown me a curve. Looks like a good solid way to tie into real structure with the fan.

I don't remember exactly how the code article is written, but pretty much all locations that could possibly have a ceiling fan installed are to have a fan rated box whether it's a fan or ordinary light fixture. If it's a new home and the AHJ is on the 2020 code, you should be set.