Panel Types and Selections

[bczygan]

I have a value pack 200A Square D Load Center I bought for a whole house main panel.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-QO-200-Amp-30-Space-40-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-with-Cover-Value-Pack-QO3040M200VP/202523118

Trying to compare to the much less expensive:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_286864-296-QO3040M200VP_1z0uy04+1z10wgm+1z10xme__?productId=3366854&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar|1%26page%3D2&facetInfo=Main%20breaker|Square%20D

What's the difference?

And what does convertible mean?

Bill

 

[alfredeneuman]

The links you gave for the 2 were exactly the same price on my end.

It may be different "In The Abyss"

Convertible means it can be used either as a surface mounted panel or a flush mounted panel.

 

[Aceman]

On my end, it was $173 at HD and $121 at Lowes. Quite a difference. Lowes picture shows a Homeline panel though, but the part number is QO.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

The home depot panel was the SQ-D QO panel,I use those on commercial jobs.
The lowes panel was the SQ-D homeline panel,its more of a residential builders grade panel.
Theres nothing wrong with the home line panels,Ive used them on houses since the early 90s on residential jobs.

 

[bczygan]

My receipt gives the QO panel part number, so I am tempted to pick it up.

Would you ever use a 200A panel as a sub panel for the same 200A panel?

 

[kd3pc]

My receipt gives the QO panel part number, so I am tempted to pick it up.

Would you ever use a 200A panel as a sub panel for the same 200A panel?

for sure, especially if you need the space for breakers,

and then sometimes the QO 200 with main is cheaper than a smaller panel and the added cost of a main and branch circuit breakers.

 

[Syberia]

Why not? If you use a smaller breaker coming off the main, then the 200 amp in the sub just acts as a disconnect switch. It ensures you'll never run out of spaces, though.

 

[DC73]

On my end, it was $173 at HD and $121 at Lowes. Quite a difference. Lowes picture shows a Homeline panel though, but the part number is QO.

Same here but the Lowe's price showed to be through "01/18/2015", so it may be back at the regular price which was the same as Home Depot. Same part number as the Home Depot link.

DC

 

[bczygan]

Only one store real close to me showed stock, so for $77.85 minus my Lowes 5% discount, I ordered it for store pickup.

Might be overkill, but cheaper than a smaller panel. They may be showing a HOM panel in the photo, but the description and model number say QO. and if you search by the QO model number, the same page comes up.

Thanks all, for the info and help. Same panel as the main panel I bought for about $120, just after they went up to $173 at HD (But I found one in the stack with the lower price on it).

Now I can distribute power all over the place!

 

[Aceman]

My receipt gives the QO panel part number, so I am tempted to pick it up.

Would you ever use a 200A panel as a sub panel for the same 200A panel?

Sure, I did it in an office once:

 

[bczygan]

Is there anything I need to install these QO panels?

Any kind of bars?

How about grounding a sub panel or neutrals or such...

And I'm trying to figure out the size breaker to feed the sub.

 

[bczygan]

Sure, I did it in an office once:

Now that's kind of interesting.

It looks like you didn't connect to a breaker in the main panel, but went directly to lugs in it. Am I right about that?

Does that just make the second panel a continuation of the first, just more spaces?

What exactly is going on there?

Bill

 

[bczygan]

I'm convinced they are closing this out in my little regional area.
The HOM version is $99.

And this one is only available at one store.

Either that, or they forgot the number 1 in front of the price.

Funny thing is that if I search, using my local Lowes, the price comes up as $50, but none available. When I clicked on the store where they were available, the price changed.

Good deal for me no matter the reason.

 

[Aceman]

Now that's kind of interesting.

It looks like you didn't connect to a breaker in the main panel, but went directly to lugs in it. Am I right about that?

Does that just make the second panel a continuation of the first, just more spaces?

What exactly is going on there?

Bill

The left panel is the main panel(there is actually a fused disconnect outside feeding this, so it's technically a subpanel also). Power is coming in through the 2" conduit in the bottom. Then power is fed to the panel on the right through the feed thru lugs you see mounted to the buss. These take up 4 breaker spaces.

The panel on the right didn't need to be main breaker, it could of been main lug, but these main breaker panels are a dime a dozen and this way they match.

 

[bczygan]

The left panel is the main panel(there is actually a fused disconnect outside feeding this, so it's technically a subpanel also). Power is coming in through the 2" conduit in the bottom. Then power is fed to the panel on the right through the feed thru lugs you see mounted to the buss. These take up 4 breaker spaces.

The panel on the right didn't need to be main breaker, it could of been main lug, but these main breaker panels are a dime a dozen and this way they match.

So does it then act like one big 200A panel?

Anything over 200A of load on either panel will trip the breaker on that panel, plus any combination of loads from both panels that totals over 200A can trip the upstream one?

Bill

 

[Aceman]

So does it then act like one big 200A panel?

Yes. I installed two panels because I needed more spaces than I could get in one panel at the time.

Anything over 200A of load on either panel will trip the breaker on that panel, plus any combination of loads from both panels that totals over 200A can trip the upstream one?

That's right.

I went ahead and put all the heavy HVAC loads into the panel on the left. I was trying to keep from loading up the panel on the right, I don't like pulling a bunch of current through buss stabs if I don't have too. Even though the feed through lugs are rated for 225 amps, I don't like pushing my luck.

 

[bczygan]

Verrrry Interesting!

 

[ishiboo]

Lowes cleared many/most of the old QO/Homeline panels to make room for the new panels that have neutral busses along with hot busses, for plug-on AFCI/GFCI/AFCI+GFCI units.

I'm sure that's the reason for the pricing.

 

[bczygan]

Lowes cleared many/most of the old QO/Homeline panels to make room for the new panels that have neutral busses along with hot busses, for plug-on AFCI/GFCI/AFCI+GFCI units.

I'm sure that's the reason for the pricing.

Can you add those busses?

 

[bczygan]

Can you add those busses?

Lowes cleared many/most of the old QO/Homeline panels to make room for the new panels that have neutral busses along with hot busses, for plug-on AFCI/GFCI/AFCI+GFCI units.

I'm sure that's the reason for the pricing.

I called Square D and got the answer to my question.

As ishiboo said, a new type of panel is coming out, and it has the neutral bar integral with the other bars. This means a new kind of breaker will be available for these as well.

What is does is eliminate the need for the old style "pigtail" breakers, which require a wire going to the neutral bar. This saves time and wire, making installs quicker and easier.

The old style breaker can still be used with the installation of a separate neutral bar. But eventually the old breaker type won't be sold.

Bill

 

[ishiboo]

I called Square D and got the answer to my question.

As ishiboo said, a new type of panel is coming out, and it has the neutral bar integral with the other bars. This means a new kind of breaker will be available for these as well.

What is does is eliminate the need for the old style "pigtail" breakers, which require a wire going to the neutral bar. This saves time and wire, making installs quicker and easier.

The old style breaker can still be used with the installation of a separate neutral bar. But eventually the old breaker type won't be sold.

Bill

You have no need to worry about the old types not being sold, Square D has made the QO breaker since at least the 60s, if not the 50s. There are a TON of them in service, and they will be available for a LONG time.

Note the new panels also only apply to AFCI/GFCI/combo devices, the regular breakers are the same.

The new panels have been out for over a year now.

 

[bczygan]

Went and picked the panel up.

They price matched the other Lowes store that had no stock, so got a $173 panel for $50.

Now I need some wire and more breakers and misc.

 

[The mean fish]

Sure, I did it in an office once:

What's the part number or name for those stab in lugs you used?

 

[Aceman]

What's the part number or name for those stab in lugs you used?

It looks like it's a Siemens ECLK2225.

https://www.northcoastelectric.com/Siemens-ECLK2225/PD859414

 

[The mean fish]

It looks like it's a Siemens ECLK2225.

https://www.northcoastelectric.com/Siemens-ECLK2225/PD859414

Thanks, as my grandpa said... "that's slicker than ************ on a pump handle"

 

[ishiboo]

No slicker than feed-through lugs, IMO.

 

[Aceman]

No slicker than feed-through lugs, IMO.

But, being able to add these to any panel makes them extremely useful. I have yet to see an indoor main breaker loadcenter with a factory feed through lug option.

 

[ishiboo]

Oh, BTW I think we forgot the other big change in the new panels is the 40-space non-CTL... with the latest changes we now have 40-space/80-circuit panels.

 

[bczygan]

Oh, BTW I think we forgot the other big change in the new panels is the 40-space non-CTL... with the latest changes we now have 40-space/80-circuit panels.

CTL.....Had to look it up and learned something.

So some questions.

Got the panel out of the box and it is huge and heavy.

I have a brick wall I am hanging it on. Would you mount it on a plywood panelboard or directly on the brick? What kind and size of fasteners?

Looks like mounting it upside down is what I need to do to get the feed in from the basement.

What is the preferred cable clamp?

Bill

 

[ishiboo]

CTL.....Had to look it up and learned something.

So some questions.

Got the panel out of the box and it is huge and heavy.

I have a brick wall I am hanging it on. Would you mount it on a plywood panelboard or directly on the brick? What kind and size of fasteners?

Looks like mounting it upside down is what I need to do to get the feed in from the basement.

What is the preferred cable clamp?

Bill

I would use plywood, it lets you attach stuff to the plywood like NM coming in, and helps prevent moisture from getting in. I use some wood standoffs to keep the plywood off the brick too.

Screws, whatever makes sense for what you are doing?

Cable clamp is whatever your supply store has appropriate for the cable you are using. I like both the plastic push-in bushings and the clamps for NM.