Plain T5 (NON-HO) vs T8

[Spudland_Dave]

Was just at Home Depot yesterday...got to looking as I would like to start buying SOMETHING for lighting...even if I just piece meal it here & there..

Saw they had some Plain NON-HO T5's there for 34.99 which INCLUDES bulbs:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-Mini-Strip-2-Light-White-Fluorescent-Utility-Light-MNS5-2-28-LP/100654408

Or 4' T8 @ 28.67 with No bulbs...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-2-Light-White-Electronic-Channel-Fluorescent-Strip-Light-C-2-32-120-GESB/100543144

Where is the "too good to be true" part of this that I am missing? Rough math puts the plain T5's as cheaper...

 

[Charles (in GA)]

So long as they have 4000k or better bulbs (cool white or whiter) and not the 2800k warm white bulbs, they they are just as good a light source as T8 lamps. The only catch is, T8 lamps will be cheaper for a long time to come. T5 lamps draw less wattage, about 28 vs 32 for a comparable T8.

Does a T5 lamp give as much light as a T8 lamp?

 

[Spudland_Dave]

So long as they have 4000k or better bulbs (cool white or whiter) and not the 2800k warm white bulbs, they they are just as good a light source as T8 lamps. The only catch is, T8 lamps will be cheaper for a long time to come. T5 lamps draw less wattage, about 28 vs 32 for a comparable T8.

Looks like they got 3000k bulbs judging by the specs.
Wife gave me the green light to buy a fixture to start getting things up, half of me says to get a T5HO Home Depot Strip, to test (10' ceiling) the other half says go with ol faithful known as T8

 

[cybrdyke]

Spudland,
Man, you are really struggling with making this decision. Maybe you've got too much input.
The standard 28w T5 is a non-mainstream lamp, especially in a strip fixture. You'll normally find them in nice looking office fixtures, where they do a nice job. They are about the same as T8's when it comes to lumen output and efficiency, but there is a difference. T8's reach their maximum light output at about 77 degrees F, whereas T5's reach their maximum output at about 95 degrees F. So unless you live in the Southwest, the T8's will outperform the T5's most of the time. Being that you live in Maine, you should know that the minimum starting temperature for the T5's is zero degrees F. Below that, they wont start reliably.
Being less mainstream than T8's, replacement parts (lamps/ballasts) will be more expensive. Also, they're shorter than T8's, so you cant mix and match fixtures. Finally, the HD link you provided says that they come with 3000k lamps. Good for offices, bad for garages.

Get the T8 strips and get 3000 or 3100 lumen lamps in 5000k. Your ceiling is too low for the T5HO's.
Good luck.
CD

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The temps cited above are NOT ambient room temps, they are BULB temps. Once the bulb warms up, in a shop with any kind of heat at all, it will have no trouble reaching the operating temps at which it has peak output.

 

[tfi racing]

Don't waste your money on the T5's unless you have a lot of it.Just buy the T8 fixtures put them up and replace the lamps in three years time.Life is too short to be futzing around with expensive and unreliable T5 and LED technology in the home garage.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Don't waste your money on the T5's unless you have a lot of it.Just buy the T8 fixtures put them up and replace the lamps in three years time.Life is too short to be futzing around with expensive and unreliable T5 and LED technology in the home garage.

care to explain?

 

[cybrdyke]

The temps cited above are NOT ambient room temps, they are BULB temps. Once the bulb warms up, in a shop with any kind of heat at all, it will have no trouble reaching the operating temps at which it has peak output.

Not so. The figures I cited are AMBIENT temperatures. Different bulbs have peak performance at different ambient temps. My figures are correct.
CD

 

[Norcal]

Don't waste your money on the T5's unless you have a lot of it.Just buy the T8 fixtures put them up and replace the lamps in three years time.Life is too short to be futzing around with expensive and unreliable T5 and LED technology in the home garage.

T5 lamps & ballasts are a lot more expensive then T8, not sure I would use unreliable though, LED still has a way to go to prove it self, in the early days of electronic ballasts there were huge failure rates, now they are pretty decent.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Spudland,
Man, you are really struggling with making this decision. Maybe you've got too much input.

ROFL...you know exactly what I'm feeling..I (like many others on here) like things to be perfect...so when I don't know, I tend to over-think things to the point of being paralyzed for lack of better terms.

Funny, this afternoon I got a wild hair across my rear end, thought enough thinking, time to start doing..drove by HD and grabbed a single Lithonia T5HO fixture and bulbs. Its installed on the ceiling in my shop end..just gotta get a J-Box cover tomorrow, and a couple other little things and I'll have it wired in and I'll report back.

What it boils down to is your right...info overload. Here on GJ and other technical bean counter type web pages say T5HO is too bright, I've seen some discussion on the plain non-reflector strips being Low Bay and OK for 9-15' ceiling's...15+ go with a reflector fixture. Then over on forums where they talk and deal more with the actual projects they build and work on, they pretty much all say T5HO and wind plenty in.. I'll see what I think of my T5HO tomorrow and adjust course as necessary.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Not so. The figures I cited are AMBIENT temperatures. Different bulbs have peak performance at different ambient temps. My figures are correct.
CD

Might want to read THIS.

 

[TheOtherChris]

In my garage with 8 foot ceiling I put a T5HO strip over the work bench and T8s everywhere else.
I LIKE a lot of light over the bench so my old eyes can see what my fingers are doing.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Might want to read THIS.

I think we can safely say that a F54T5HO strip light qualifies as "a bare lamp in free air". The figures or chart are not based on the lamp surface temperature, which will reach over 140°F. The ambient temperature for a strip light in a room is the room temperature. The article you linked to is a promotional piece for enclosed or wrapped style fixtures where the ambient temperature becomes the temperature inside the fixture enclosure. F54T5HO fixtures in lower ceiling heights are fine if installed in an enclosed or wrapped fixture, which also reduces lumen output, changes light distribution, and reduces glare. Exposed bare T5HO lights are not the proper solution for low ceilings.

I prefer unbiased info from sources like the LRC (Lighting Research Center) rather than a lighting manufacturer promoting their own enclosed T5 fixtures.

 

[cybrdyke]

Might want to read THIS.

Maybe you should RE-read it, cuz it says exactly what I did....

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Note that these are not room ambient temps, but rather they are the ambient temperature in relation to the bulb wall

In other words, if the temperature of the air at the surface of the bulb is 95°F then the bulb will be at 100% output. Knowing how hot these bulbs get (hot enough you can burn yourself if not careful), I think I can safely say that the air temp immediately surrounding the bulb will be at least 95 provided there is no significant air movement (ie, indoors in a closed building). The ones I have over my workbench have been operated at room temps down into the 40's (with and without the covers) and after they warm up (and yes, they do need to warm up, the middle of the bulb has a dull purplish hue until they do). there is no discernible difference in light output from their operation in a warmer room temp.

I am addressing T5HO lamps and I'm sure the standard T5 runs cooler, its half the wattage, but again, a bulb with as little surface area as it has, retains lots of heat and radiates less than a T8 with a much larger surface area. Surface area of the glass, T12=216 sq in; T8=144 sq in; T5=86 sq in.

Charles

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Not being, nor pretending to be a pro at this stuff, but in layman's terms, I tend to side with Charles...what he says makes sense, plain ol common sense. Something severely lacking in the world today it seems...

Take this with a grain of salt if it pertains to you..I think this is where the world of "Engineer/Paperwork/Theory" mentality collides with "Out here in the real world"....this applies across the board, whether we are talking electric, lights, engines, hydraulics, etc.. What looks & works great on paper might not out here where I live, or what is NOT supposed to work on paper...out here in the real world works great.

Sometimes I think we overthink/out smart ourselves....I think we've educated the common sense out of most people. They can engineer, graph, design, etc...but have an extremely hard time to think in common terms.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Not being, nor pretending to be a pro at this stuff, but in layman's terms, I tend to side with Charles...what he says makes sense, plain ol common sense. Something severely lacking in the world today it seems...

Take this with a grain of salt if it pertains to you..I think this is where the world of "Engineer/Paperwork/Theory" mentality collides with "Out here in the real world"....this applies across the board, whether we are talking electric, lights, engines, hydraulics, etc.. What looks & works great on paper might not out here where I live, or what is NOT supposed to work on paper...out here in the real world works great.

Sometimes I think we overthink/out smart ourselves....I think we've educated the common sense out of most people. They can engineer, graph, design, etc...but have an extremely hard time to think in common terms.

You are certainly free to dismiss what I have already told you and to write off sound lighting principles that have been tested and proven in real world applications over the past 80+ years as "Engineer/Paperwork/Theory". By all means, listen to plain ol common sense Charles and put F54T5HO bare lamp strip lights on your 10ft ceiling. You've beaten this issue to death. Make a decision already and get-her-done.

 

[cybrdyke]

In other words, if the temperature of the air at the surface of the bulb is 95°F then the bulb will be at 100% output. Knowing how hot these bulbs get (hot enough you can burn yourself if not careful), I think I can safely say that the air temp immediately surrounding the bulb will be at least 95 provided there is no significant air movement (ie, indoors in a closed building). The ones I have over my workbench have been operated at room temps down into the 40's (with and without the covers) and after they warm up (and yes, they do need to warm up, the middle of the bulb has a dull purplish hue until they do). there is no discernible difference in light output from their operation in a warmer room temp.

I am addressing T5HO lamps and I'm sure the standard T5 runs cooler, its half the wattage, but again, a bulb with as little surface area as it has, retains lots of heat and radiates less than a T8 with a much larger surface area. Surface area of the glass, T12=216 sq in; T8=144 sq in; T5=86 sq in.

Charles

The marketing geniuses at that website are twisting the facts so that their stuff seems more appealing. AND YOU ARE FALLING FOR IT. Geez.
They are trying to sell enclosed fixtures, in which the ambient air temperature changes as the bulbs heat up. We are discussing open air strips where the lamps cannot change the ambient air temperature. I am sorry that you dont understand this, but you are confused about this and you are confusing the OP to the point where he agrees with your twisted misinformation.
CD
The key phrase is

 

[cybrdyke]

Not being, nor pretending to be a pro at this stuff, but in layman's terms, I tend to side with Charles...what he says makes sense, plain ol common sense. Something severely lacking in the world today it seems...

Take this with a grain of salt if it pertains to you..I think this is where the world of "Engineer/Paperwork/Theory" mentality collides with "Out here in the real world"....this applies across the board, whether we are talking electric, lights, engines, hydraulics, etc.. What looks & works great on paper might not out here where I live, or what is NOT supposed to work on paper...out here in the real world works great.

Sometimes I think we overthink/out smart ourselves....I think we've educated the common sense out of most people. They can engineer, graph, design, etc...but have an extremely hard time to think in common terms.

Believe what you will...Platonic & I are both in the lighting industry. The info we have provided is correct. Charles and his link have misguided you. I'm sorry for that. Get the T8's. Move on.
CD