Power to Sheds

[Ferrino]

We recently moved into a new home with a single (attached) garage and had some sheds built at the back of the house to deal with this garage-downsizing. None of them have any electrical power and I'm looking to have a contractor come out and run power. I was wondering if I could please get some suggestions on circuits/amperage/subpanels from those who have done this before and maybe learned some lessons? I'm sure the contractor will have their own ideas, but I wanted to get your take.

My plan was to run power from main panel into Shed1, which is where I was thinking of placing my 220v air compressor (which will serve garage and sheds). It would be nice to have 110v for a couple of lights in here too. Power would then extend through Shed1 and then outside to Sheds 2 and 3. These sheds will just have 110v tools and some lighting. May run some landscape lighting off one of them too.

One thing I am unsure of is how much capacity there is on the main panel. We currently have a 100A service and I am guessing we may need to bump up to 200A with this addition.

 

[Marctrees]

Are the major appliances in your home gas or electric?

Clothes dryer, water heater, stoves, ovens, cooktops.

Also, what energy heats the house ?

Staying w the 100 main service will probably be fine, but even more fine if you have gas.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

All you are really adding is the compressor that could be running while the Missus is clothes drying cooking and taking a long hot shower.

And in summer, your AC will be running.

The lighting , etc to the sheds is totally negligible.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

Take a photo of your main panel.

Marc

 

[Ferrino]

Thanks Marctrees. Gas oven/burners (the now redundant 50A breaker from the old electric range is still in the main panel). Gas clothes drier. Gas water heater. Gas hot-air furnace. No A/C (just a 110v whole-house fan). I think the vacuum cleaner must be the biggest current draw in the house?

This evening I will come back and summarize the main panel layout as I don't remember precisely the supply amperages. There is a main panel that branches out to 2 sub-panels. And one of those has it's own sub-panel!

 

[Marctrees]

"This evening I will come back and summarize the main panel layout as I don't remember precisely the supply amperages."

Absolutely no need to do that, the question is answered.

You have no need to upgrade service size.

No need for panel photo.. as you have answered you have a double space available w the Range breaker.

Now you just need to decide what size panel to put in the garage.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

Where is the main panel in relation to the garage ?

You said no power in attached garage, so I assume it is somewhere else ?

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

Why does the house have 3 sub panels?

Is it large square footage ?

Remodel added additions?

Marc

 

[theoldwizard1]

Quick rule of thumb, 240V @ 60A is plenty for most garages/sheds that are going to have 240V power tools and maybe even an air conditioner. Wire size will depend on the distance.

If the second shed is only going to have lights, consider some solar powered lights. The price is low and easy to install. If you really want 120VAC in the second shed, you can run 12/2 UF-B and go into a multi-gang switch box. One switch for outlets (yes, they must be switched), one for interior lights and maybe on for exterior lights.


You and your electrician will have to figure out upstream from the first shed.

 

[Ferrino]

Why does the house have 3 sub panels?

Is it large square footage ?

Remodel added additions?

Marc

OK, here is the configuration:

100A service enters the main panel, which is located on the exterior of the attached garage. From here, there are 2 sub-panels, each fed by a 100A breaker: one is located on the interior face of the main panel in the garage and the other is on the 2nd floor (which was an addition after the house was built). The 2nd floor sub-panel then has it's own 50A sub-panel on the opposite side of the 2nd floor.

I'm not sure why the sub-panels were done like this, but it looks like there are a lot more circuits than our previous house, so perhaps it was just to accommodate finer control over the circuits?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Marctrees]

So... you DO have a 100 a panel in the attached garage you originally spoke of ?

Marc

 

[Ferrino]

So... you DO have a 100 a panel in the attached garage you originally spoke of ?

Yeah, sorry, I thought it was clear from the diagram I sketched out and inserted into my first post. But it looks like it's not always visible. I edited the post and re-inserted it...

 

[Marctrees]

Still no image in first post.

You may see it on YOUR Computer... but it may be one of those things where if you look on ANOTHER comp..

It doeas not show.

Only on yours.

One of the tech savvy guys can explain.

Marc

 

[FordTruckWench]

Giving it a kick...

 

[Radio Flyer]

Not to Hijack, but how are you getting the air back to the garage and shed?

I'm considering putting my compressor in the shed as well.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What is the HP rating on the compressor?

 

[Ferrino]

Not to Hijack, but how are you getting the air back to the garage and shed?

I haven't figured that out yet - step 1 is getting power to the compressor

What is the HP rating on the compressor?

3.7 HP. It's the Kobalt 60-gallon unit from Lowe's. Manual suggests a 30A breaker. Others seem to use a 20A just fine. Here is a link to the manual with specs:

Kobalt VT6362

 

[Ferrino]

Giving it a kick...

Thanks, I can definitely see it at my end!

 

[theoldwizard1]

A 60A breaker in your main panel is adequate for the loads you have described. If buy a welder, worst case, you might have to turn off the compressor while welding.

Wire size from the main panel to Shed1 depends on the distance.

20A breaker and 12 gauge wire from the Shed1 to Shed 2 and Shed3 is adequate and if you are only running lights and outlets and have less than 6 circuits, you don't need a load center as long as everything is switched, including the outlets.

 

[Ferrino]

A 60A breaker in your main panel is adequate for the loads you have described. If buy a welder, worst case, you might have to turn off the compressor while welding.

Wire size from the main panel to Shed1 depends on the distance.

20A breaker and 12 gauge wire from the Shed1 to Shed 2 and Shed3 is adequate and if you are only running lights and outlets and have less than 6 circuits, you don't need a load center as long as everything is switched, including the outlets.

Thanks! So are you saying: sub-panel in Shed 1 with 220v 30A circuit for air compressor, and then two 110v 20A circuits lead to Sheds 2 & 3 (one for each)?

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Just be careful about using a contractor if he's getting a permit. Many towns will not allow power in a shed without taxing you for it as living space. Some allow a light and a service receptacle, but if you do anything more than that you get taxed.

Tommy

 

[Ferrino]

Just be careful about using a contractor if he's getting a permit. Many towns will not allow power in a shed without taxing you for it as living space. Some allow a light and a service receptacle, but if you do anything more than that you get taxed.

Tommy

Thanks for that!

 

[Ferrino]

OK, I had a contractor come over and he is planning to put a 60A breaker in my main panel, which will feed a sub-panel in Shed 1. There will be a 220V-30A breaker for the air compressor. And I'm then thinking of two 110V circuits running down to the sheds: a 20A circuit for outlets, and a 15A circuit for lighting (both to be shared between sheds). How does this sound?

That will be fine for my current needs, but I'm trying to anticipate future expansion. We will almost certainly use one of the sheds to feed power for some landscape lighting. Is that something which could feed off the 15A lighting circuit, or should we really provide a dedicated circuit for outdoor lights? The other one is possibly a very small air-conditioner for one of the sheds, but I'm thinking a plug-in 110v unit would work for such small spaces (120 sq. ft. each).

Thanks.

 

[Marctrees]

To FULLY amnswer your question -

Suggested upgrade to your plan would be to have TWO recept ckts at any shed where you MAY EVER want small AC.

Plus your planned lighting ckt.

Remember, a common higher load Shop item is large Shop Vac... that can draw up to like maybe 13 amps.

Probably won't be able to run that same time on same ckt as window AC w/o breaker tripping.

Hence, two recept ckts, and one light ckt. TOTAL three 120/20 ckts for BOTH the two little sheds.

Because, only ONE man will be out there total at one time.

IF TWO people would be working, ONLY then would you want, not necessarily but to CYA, have yet one MORE recept ckt.

The future landscape lights can tap off the lighting ckt, unless you are lighting Mansion Acreage.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

San diego maybe not, but if you would want to heat one of the sheds while you are out there on the coldest days...

Would use a plug in 1500watt simple cheap $20 portable heater...

So, that would utilize your "AC Circuit"

With your remaining recept ckt for any power tools.

And your lighting ckt for interior and any outside lighting.

Marc

 

[Ferrino]

Hence, two recept ckts, and one light ckt. TOTAL three 120/20 ckts for BOTH the two little sheds.

Marc, thank you for this suggestion!

I had another couple of questions:

1. I want to be able to remotely control the light circuits from the house, without entering the sheds. Presumably the current wireless light switches would have a pretty decent range and could reach ~50ft outdoors? FYI, our wireless router gets good reception at the rearmost shed.

2. I want to run ethernet cable out to the sheds - am I right in thinking that this wire cannot run in the same conduit (3/4" PVC) as the high-voltage 120V lines?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Marc, thank you for this suggestion!

I had another couple of questions:

1. I want to be able to remotely control the light circuits from the house, without entering the sheds. Presumably the current wireless light switches would have a pretty decent range and could reach ~50ft outdoors? FYI, our wireless router gets good reception at the rearmost shed.

2. I want to run ethernet cable out to the sheds - am I right in thinking that this wire cannot run in the same conduit (3/4" PVC) as the high-voltage 120V lines?

the ethernet cable can only be ran in the same conduit if it is rated for the voltage.

With that being said, even being rated for the voltage, the ethernet cable could pickup interference so it is best to put it in a separate conduit.

 

[Ferrino]

With that being said, even being rated for the voltage, the ethernet cable could pickup interference so it is best to put it in a separate conduit.

Thank you!

 

[Marctrees]

Ferrino - For your remote wireless questions, I suggest a new post targeted to that.

In this L and E subforum.

Also don't forget to do Advanced search here.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

Funny, every time I see your name I think of Lou Ferrigno.

Marc