Prentiss Vise help

[yellowsupra88]

Hey guys,

I had a friend give me this vise after I broke the back jaw off my china vise.

I tore it apart to clean it up and the inner nut is trashed as you can see in the pictures.

I think the vise is a No 2x Prentiss. 6 in jaws, 11 inch open, swivel jaw and base. Maybe a 22,23 or 26 depending on where you look.

Anyone know for sure what it is?

How about a replacement nut. The one I pulled out seems to be cast brass or bronze. OD of screw is just under 1.25" It seems like it was broke once, maybe repaired, and then broke again.

The jaw attachment surfaces are pretty rough. We will weld them up and machine back and make a new set of jaws.

There is zero cast in ID, stamped in, or any other identifying marks on the entire vise, or base.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[SweetD]

I have an old Prentiss catalog at home - I will try to look up your vise. Man that thing is beat up! Too bad on that nut being broken. I've run into that before. If you get lucky you can find one on eBay being parted out, or it may be a common Acme thread that you could fabricate a replacement for...let me check out my catalog when I get home later...

 

[yellowsupra88]

I have an old Prentiss catalog at home - I will try to look up your vise. Man that thing is beat up! Too bad on that nut being broken. I've run into that before. If you get lucky you can find one on eBay being parted out, or it may be a common Acme thread that you could fabricate a replacement for...let me check out my catalog when I get home later...

Thanks! It certainly has had a hard life. Hopefully I can resurrect it! It is OMG heavy. Easily over 100 pounds, probably 150.

 

[SweetD]

That's good to have an idea of the weight, as the weight and the jaw width are listed in the catalog per model...helpful...

 

[thehorse13]

Prentiss made vises for other brands but the shape is a dead give away. Sometimes you will find, "P.V. Co." cast into the underside of the dynamic jaw.

If this was a branded Prentiss, it would be a model 22.

In addition, the main nut, which is broken in your vise, typically carry a stamp with either PVCo or the model such as "22". Your main nut has a massive section missing as well so it may be tough to see any marking on the thing.

 

[SweetD]

I have one of the "no name" Prentiss vises as thehorse13 mentions above. No Prentiss marks or ID on it anywhere, but it is surely Prentiss-made. Same style as yours, just not as big, maybe like the #19 in size...

 

[yellowsupra88]

That's good to have an idea of the weight, as the weight and the jaw width are listed in the catalog per model...helpful...

I ran out and put it on the scale. Right at 160lbs

Prentiss made vises for other brands but the shape is a dead give away. Sometimes you will find, "P.V. Co." cast into the underside of the dynamic jaw.

If this was a branded Prentiss, it would be a model 22.

I looked for that right around the front of the dynamic by the spindle and nothing. There is absolutely zero markings on it. Cast, stamped, or other wise!

 

[yellowsupra88]

Any place to get parts for these?

 

[SweetD]

The company is long gone, but people do part them out on eBay.

 

[yellowsupra88]

As far as it being a number 22, I had kind of pressed past that assumption based on the swivel lock design, and the listing here

http://scuttle.dayid.org/wiki/index.php/Prentiss_Vise

That lists it as only opening 9". I'm not 100% certain of course. That is very close either way. There is a thread on here where a fellow listed a 26, being swivel base and jaw, 6 inch jaw, 11 inch opening. That lines up exactly to mine, but that is the only place I have found any info on a 26. Not listed in the link above.

Did they make a 22 long travel? or wide opening? Mine square post is over 17 inches long!

 

[SweetD]

Here you go...:



The extra eight pounds compared to your model is probably accounting for the swivel base...

Dave

 

[yellowsupra88]

Here you go...:



The extra eight pounds compared to your model is probably accounting for the swivel base...

Dave

Very cool. I'll have to reassemble it and check the opening width. That 168 is very close. I weighed all the parts separate and added. I might have missed something or added wrong.

Now, where to find a spindle nut!

 

[SweetD]

It may take a while to find that nut. There are some parts on eBay for Prentiss' being sold right now, but not what you are looking for...you could also look into bringing it to a machine shop / machinist and seeing if they can replicate something for you. Probably won't be cheap unless you "know a guy" - good luck!

 

[SweetD]

Incidentally, here's my "no-name Prentiss" -





As you can see, no swivel base on this one...

 

[yellowsupra88]

Incidentally, here's my "no-name Prentiss" -





As you can see, no swivel base on this one...

Pretty close. I think the long square part on mine is a little longer. If I measure from where the "8" on your tape measure to the end, its 17".

Wanna get rid of that nut

 

[thehorse13]

There are several variations of the base. Your base has the spring loaded variety which is on the model 192 on that page you posted.

A model 22 should weigh around 165 pounds. I still say this vise is a generic 22 but because it's not a, "real" Prentiss, the company they manufactured this vise for could have had a requirement for the jaw to open to 11 rather than the 9 that a branded Prentiss would have.

Either way, you have a lot of work to do before that thing becomes a serviceable vise again. Good luck on your new project and please post pics of your progress.

I've attached two of my Prentiss vises just for viewing pleasure.

 

[yellowsupra88]

There are several variations of the base. Your base has the spring loaded variety which is on the model 192 on that page you posted.

A model 22 should weigh around 165 pounds. I still say this vise is a generic 22 but because it's not a, "real" Prentiss, the company they manufactured this vise for could have had a requirement for the jaw to open to 11 rather than the 9 that a branded Prentiss would have.

Either way, you have a lot of work to do before that thing becomes a serviceable vise again. Good luck on your new project and please post pics of your progress.

I've attached two of my Prentiss vises just for viewing pleasure.

Yeah I saw that. Kind of a odd duck isn't it? So this would have been sold as a store brand I assume?

Any idea if the spindle nut is common with certain other Prentiss vises?

 

[thehorse13]

To be perfectly honest, had this vise come into my shop, I would have thrown it on the scrap heap. You're going to be into this vise for far more than it's worth with just the main nut purchase, if you can find one and/or have one made.

If you're in this for the enjoyment of bringing an old tool back to life, you're going to want a Prentiss main nut for a model 22. Having a custom main nut made will be unbelievably expensive if you go to a machine shop but it can be done. You will also need a plug for the swivel jaw but those are much more cost friendly.

 

[yellowsupra88]

To be perfectly honest, had this vise come into my shop, I would have thrown it on the scrap heap. You're going to be into this vise for far more than it's worth with just the main nut purchase, if you can find one and/or have one made.

If you're in this for the enjoyment of bringing an old tool back to life, you're going to want a Prentiss main nut for a model 22. Having a custom main nut made will be unbelievably expensive if you go to a machine shop but it can be done. You will also need a plug for the swivel jaw but those are much more cost friendly.

Well I have a Bridgeport Mill, and a lathe. So the jaws and jaw mounting surface would be an easy fix. Making a 1.25 square internal thread is beyond my abilities at the moment haha.

What would be a reasonable price to pay for that nut? I can't find one, so not sure what it matters.

If I could buy anything with that thread in it, I could braze or solder that to what I have left.

I just hate to junk the thing, it would be a great vise fixed. Other than the nut, I could have it usable in an afternoon

 

[SweetD]

I have the same "nut" problem that you do with a super-rare Illinois Iron & Bolt vise I bought several years ago at an estate sale. The nut is half-broken...not as bad as yours (technically you can use mine still, although I wouldn't).

My point is that unfortunately my II&B vise has been sitting patiently on my shelf since I bought it. I have very little hope of finding the correct nut for it. I could inquire about having it repaired - it would likely be a few hundred bucks at least. Otherwise, it's an anchor.

If I was in your situation, I'd part that one out, take the $ from the sale of the good parts, and find another fully functional USA-Made vintage vise. In my opinion, that one is not worth fixing...

Good luck!

Dave

 

[yellowsupra88]

I have the same "nut" problem that you do with a super-rare Illinois Iron & Bolt vise I bought several years ago at an estate sale. The nut is half-broken...not as bad as yours (technically you can use mine still, although I wouldn't).

My point is that unfortunately my II&B vise has been sitting patiently on my shelf since I bought it. I have very little hope of finding the correct nut for it. I could inquire about having it repaired - it would likely be a few hundred bucks at least. Otherwise, it's an anchor.

If I was in your situation, I'd part that one out, take the $ from the sale of the good parts, and find another fully functional USA-Made vintage vise. In my opinion, that one is not worth fixing...

Good luck!

Dave

Good plan, thanks Dave!

 

[thehorse13]

Brazing or welding a main nut will never hold up to regular use.

Whenever I see Prentiss main nuts come up for sale, people on FleaBay typically ask for 50 bucks plus shipping. Sometimes you will get lucky and find a trashed out vise on Craigslist or a yard sale, etc.

One time I did find a main nut on the For Sale section of this site for 20 bucks. A guy was parting out the exact vise that I was working on at the time.

Good luck in your search. It's also not unheard of to have to slightly grind and shave a main nut to fit a vise body even when the main nut is for that particular vise. If you can find something with the right thread size, angle, height and pitch, you might be able to fit it with some light grind alterations.

 

[davethorik]

If you can mill the nut profile on your Bport, drill it for minor thread diameter of the thread, and if you can find a tap, you could then power tap it on your lathe. Probably not cost effective, but doable. I have power tapped many unc, unf, and Acme thread on a lathe.

 

[yellowsupra88]

If you can mill the nut profile on your Bport, drill it for minor thread diameter of the thread, and if you can find a tap, you could then power tap it on your lathe. Probably not cost effective, but doable. I have power tapped many unc, unf, and Acme thread on a lathe.

I've thought of that, and I might give it a try if I cant find a usuable one. Problem is its a square thread. I'd probably have to make that tap. Machinist handbook describes it as a 5 step tapping operation.... That tap would cost 150 just in materials. I saw one haha. Plus a week for me to make it, and then another week to make one in spec!


I have the machines, its the skills that would be the issue.

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

Not sure I'm much help on your nut problem but do have a fairly old Prentiss No. 22 vise. I found mine in a junk yard having lived out it's life on the back of a service truck working around a rock crusher. It was very rough but showed promise and after a bit of work is quite usefull. Also the early Prentiss name if present was located on the main vise body just behind the swivel back jaw flange. Later vises had the beautifully cast Prentiss name on the side. Here are a couple of pics of mine. Ed.

 

[SweetD]

Ed - I love the way you have that vise mounted. Your shop looks pretty cool too from your one picture...welcome to Garage Journal!

Dave

 

[yellowsupra88]

Yeah, I've looked there, around the spindle, under the ram, on the nut. nada! Not even a hand stamp!!

If it was modern I would say it was a Chinese clone haha

It look identical to yours though. What the open on yours? And if you can, the length of the machined square portion of the ram.

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

Hi Yellowsupra, Although I would never try to hold much load at full opening mine will go just over a foot and still have a couple of spindle threads in the nut. Also the main beam on the movable jaw is about 18" from where it flares out to form the jaw body. One thing about these "big" vises is when mounted at typical bench level they are just too high to be very useful. Of course it takes a pretty big bench to cantilever a 165# vise out and not get tippy. Ed.

 

[yellowsupra88]

Cool, that's about the same as mine then. Much more than the 9in advertised for the 22. It seems like the other 22's in pictures look shorter, like 9" would be about right.

 

[KMScott]

It would be nice to know your thread size and pitch. Maybe some one has a nut laying around, I have a few. You might have luck at this site if the threads are a standard pitch. http://www.dependableacme.com/about/ Welding a nut to a dovetail support and using quality steel and a good rod like Eutectic 680 will never shear unless a sledge hammer is used.

I also added a drawing of a #22 jaw in case you want to make a pair. I have repaired a few vises in your condition and worse, if you figure out the nut issue then that is 1/2 the battle. Getting that 6" vise back in service would be great. Good luck.

 

[yellowsupra88]

It would be nice to know your thread size and pitch. Maybe some one has a nut laying around, I have a few. You might have luck at this site if the threads are a standard pitch. http://www.dependableacme.com/about/ Welding a nut to a dovetail support and using quality steel and a good rod like Eutectic 680 will never shear unless a sledge hammer is used.

I also added a drawing of a #22 jaw in case you want to make a pair. I have repaired a few vises in your condition and worse, if you figure out the nut issue then that is 1/2 the battle. Getting that 6" vise back in service would be great. Good luck.

Thanks, its 1.25" square thread. I'll check the TPI and depth tomorrow.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Oh this pains me to see. My father has a very similar vise, (It's a bid newer, with a longer body, and thicker on all parts, with the leadscrew being straight and no ball on the end. Edit: It's a 456) in perfect condition just about. It's had years of use, but been taken care of. It has the clamp ring base that holds great. The jaws are the hardest steel I have ever encountered-- they will mar taps, dies, whatever with nary a scratch to them. They look almost perfect after all these years. I hope you can get yours fixed.