professional wiring?

[Identaltech]

I was sitting on the stool and looking at the dirty light switches and thought I would put new ones in.
I was just wondering if this is how the pro's do it.
Note the ground wires were not hooked up to the switches and just spun around.
I would think this would be a code violation.
My fix was to cut back the ground wires use a wirenut and pigtail to switchs.
I also check all other outlets and switches in the house.
all switches were not grounded and all ground conection were done the same way.
Apparently my standards are way higher than the union pros!
my feelings are that the builing inspector here should had been fired!

[/IMG]
next time your sitting on the stool and reach up to turn on the exhust fan I hope this guy didn't wire that switch and your not the better gound.
This may have been how Elvis died.

 

[mrb]

that ground should have had a crimp sleeve on it. Whats under the tape? crimp sleeves?

 

[kbs2244]

Are you talking about switchs or outlets?

I have never seen a ground terminal on a switch.

 

[Falcon67]

All the switches I use have a ground terminal. That looks like some of the stuff that was in this house when we moved in. Romex taped to knob-and-tube, etc.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Do you know in fact that particular box was wired by a union pro?

 

[Identaltech]

that ground should have had a crimp sleeve on it. Whats under the tape? crimp sleeves?

no soldered

Are you talking about switchs or outlets?

I have never seen a ground terminal on a switch.

both only the outlets had the ground hooked up.
you should look around here 3 random ones laying around the garage

[/IMG]

Do you know in fact that particular box was wired by a union pro?

yes the house was built in 1991 it was the selling point.

 

[tfi racing]

Union or not,it just looks like a hack job,in these parts you would get run out of town with work like that.Anyways,up here grounding the switch frame is not a requirement or even considered,is that a NEC rule or just a regional requirement?

 

[hidollartoys]

Soldered joints are not allowed by the 2005 code.

 

[Identaltech]

Soldered joints are not allowed by the 2005 code.

It was built in 1991 so I think thats before the 2005 code.
dosn't it only have to meet code at the time the work was done?

 

[swaterbenny]

I'm an apprentice electrician in WI and also in the union. They have not soldered connections since the times of knob and tube. That looks like a handyman job to me. Also inspectors don't pull out every device, they take into account that it was done by a licensed professional, and assume they can trust they know the correct way of doing the installation. Ben

 

[Number22]

I was sitting on the stool and looking at the dirty light switches and thought I would put new ones in.
I was just wondering if this is how the pro's do it.
Note the ground wires were not hooked up to the switches and just spun around.
I would think this would be a code violation.
My fix was to cut back the ground wires use a wirenut and pigtail to switchs.
I also check all other outlets and switches in the house.
all switches were not grounded and all ground conection were done the same way.
Apparently my standards are way higher than the union pros!
my feelings are that the builing inspector here should had been fired!

I'm glad someone feels the same way I do. First thing I did when I moved into my shop was replace all the nasty old outlets and switches. None of them grounded just like yours. (even the outlets...*sigh*) Everybody thinks I'm nuts doing this stuff but I think it's a huge safety concern. I also KNOW my standards are higher than NEC code, and anything a cheap electrician would do for me. Usually I go above and beyond the code. I only have to follow 1995 codes, but I'm bringing it completely up to 2009 standards. I'm also putting GFCI outlets everywhere and replacing many of the breakers with arc fault protection. I also like to use the "industrial grade" grey nylon outlets and switches for shop stuff.

 

[LoneGunman]

It's obvious by my prior posts I am by no means a fan of any union but that really looks like handyman or homeowner work to me. I have never seen an electrician leave a box like, I've seen lots of hack work done by electricians but it makes no sense for a hack electrician to leave that box like that, he didn't save any time and that is really the reason behind the hack work I have seen. Piece work brings out the hacks in droves.

How do you know that house was wired by a union electrical contractor? Because the real estate agent told you? As stated by the sparky apprentice above, I haven't seen a soldered joint in anything but knob and tube. That bakelite box also looks way out of place in a house that was built in the early 90's.

I think you were fed a line of BS by someone.

"I'm also putting GFCI outlets everywhere and replacing many of the breakers with arc fault protection."

In a shop? Be sure to let me know how those Arc faults work out for you in a shop.

 

[Identaltech]

I'm an apprentice electrician in WI and also in the union. They have not soldered connections since the times of knob and tube. That looks like a handyman job to me. Also inspectors don't pull out every device, they take into account that it was done by a licensed professional, and assume they can trust they know the correct way of doing the installation. Ben

it not a handyman job as I purchased the house in 1992 and the house was build in 1991 the original owner couldn't repalce a bulb with out help.
and every box was done this way.
only one builder was alowed to build in the area.
just check the nieghbors house and his boxes are done the same way.
same builder.
this builder advertised he used union labor.
of course like most builder around here he is now out of bussiness.

 

[kbs2244]

Yeah, he had a union labor do the electrical!

That looks like it might be BX (flex metal)?
If so the mounting screws may be good enough for the ground.
Did you check for ground before you opened it up?

I only do EMT so I never use the ground screws.
The pipe is the ground.

 

[Zrexxer]

Sad to say I believe I take more care with wiring that I do than most "professional" electricians I've seen doing residential work. The commercial guys, that's another matter, there's some real knowledge and mastery there, but wow... these homebuilders definitely aim for the bottom of the barrel.

Case in point: I decided to put a new light fixture over the vanity in the downstairs half bath. Upon taking the old one down, I discover that apparently the elec had come along after the plumbers - don't get me started on THOSE guys - who had run the vent pipe right up the centerline of the vanity. "No problem," professional electrician says to himself. He whips out a round pancake box and screws it to the 4" DWV PVC line with drywall screws.

The upstairs baths were another matter... when I experienced loss of half a circuit upstairs, it didn't take me long to find this little smoldering souvenir in the wall:

 

[z28snksknr]

I'm certainly no expert electrician or even an expert homeowner, and my electrical work looks better than these pics. Not because I know what i'm doing more than these guys, but because I give a **** about my house and the wiring that could burn it down.

You can't pay someone enough to make them CARE.

 

[JBurgess]

Soldered joints are not allowed by the 2005 code.

Allowed in both the 2005 and 2008. I don't know why anyone would want to.

110.14(B) Splices. Conductors shall be spliced or joined with
splicing devices identified for the use or by brazing, welding,
or soldering with a fusible metal or alloy. Soldered
splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically
and electrically secure without solder and then be
soldered. All splices and joints and the free ends of conductors
shall be covered with an insulation equivalent to that of
the conductors or with an insulating device identified for
the purpose.
Wire connectors or splicing means installed on conductors
for direct burial shall be listed for such use.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Yeah, he had a union labor do the electrical!

That looks like it might be BX (flex metal)?
If so the mounting screws may be good enough for the ground.
Did you check for ground before you opened it up?

I only do EMT so I never use the ground screws.
The pipe is the ground.

No ground connection on the OP's pic, its a plastic box.

Charles

 

[LoneGunman]

"Sad to say I believe I take more care with wiring that I do than most "professional" electricians I've seen doing residential work."

That's the thing, most of the electricians I know do not consider new construction residential "electricians" electricians at all. In my opinion, new construction residential is the low rung of the electrical trade, it's a stepping stone, I did it, for about a whole 6 months. The company I worked for had one electrician for every 4 or 5 houses who's job was to TRY to keep the romex runners in line and partially out of trouble. When we had a green apprentice he'd be roughing in his own houses in three months, if he couldn't he was fired.

The pay scale tells the story, in my area a residential electrician, even if he's got years in the trade, he's looking at topping out at $12-$14 and hour. The company I work for pays $23.25 an hour for service electricians, they pay the highest in the area because unlike most service electricians we don't do a lot of residential service, we do all the work for the county, school district, large industrial complexes, commercial. I am the youngest in the department at 40 years old with 17 years in the trade. To work where I work you have to be able to troubleshoot residential one day and the next day replace 480v switchgear that burned up and everything in between. We also do a good amount of motor control work which is given mostly to me because I enjoy it and it keeps me from doing residential which I hate. Thank God we don't do any new construction residential.

 

[Number22]

"I'm also putting GFCI outlets everywhere and replacing many of the breakers with arc fault protection."

In a shop? Be sure to let me know how those Arc faults work out for you in a shop.

They work great, thanks for asking.

 

[Steevo]

I was sitting on the stool and looking at the dirty light switches and thought I would put new ones in.
I was just wondering if this is how the pro's do it.
Note the ground wires were not hooked up to the switches and just spun around.
I would think this would be a code violation.
My fix was to cut back the ground wires use a wirenut and pigtail to switchs.
I also check all other outlets and switches in the house.
all switches were not grounded and all ground conection were done the same way.
Apparently my standards are way higher than the union pros!
my feelings are that the builing inspector here should had been fired!

[/IMG]
next time your sitting on the stool and reach up to turn on the exhust fan I hope this guy didn't wire that switch and your not the better gound.
This may have been how Elvis died.

What? You wanted wire nuts? Crimped grounds? Geeze! Picky, picky

 

[swaterbenny]

"Sad to say I believe I take more care with wiring that I do than most "professional" electricians I've seen doing residential work."

That's the thing, most of the electricians I know do not consider new construction residential "electricians" electricians at all. In my opinion, new construction residential is the low rung of the electrical trade, it's a stepping stone, I did it, for about a whole 6 months. The company I worked for had one electrician for every 4 or 5 houses who's job was to TRY to keep the romex runners in line and partially out of trouble. When we had a green apprentice he'd be roughing in his own houses in three months, if he couldn't he was fired.

The pay scale tells the story, in my area a residential electrician, even if he's got years in the trade, he's looking at topping out at $12-$14 and hour. The company I work for pays $23.25 an hour for service electricians, they pay the highest in the area because unlike most service electricians we don't do a lot of residential service, we do all the work for the county, school district, large industrial complexes, commercial. I am the youngest in the department at 40 years old with 17 years in the trade. To work where I work you have to be able to troubleshoot residential one day and the next day replace 480v switchgear that burned up and everything in between. We also do a good amount of motor control work which is given mostly to me because I enjoy it and it keeps me from doing residential which I hate. Thank God we don't do any new construction residential.

Residential guys here make about $20 an hour just as much as a late third year commercial/industrial apprentice. You get what you pay for when there $10 cheaper per hour... On a note to the original poster, at least your home is not all aluminum wire done in flex! That is a real

Ben

 

[Identaltech]

^^^^^^^^ oh yeaa.....In some of the older home down the street that were built in the late 1970 had aluminun wire and every few years one will burn.
The state of Iowa has a new law.
The local Ibrew has been airing a commercial on the radio every day telling us it the law that you have to have a licensed electrian perform your electrical work.
Talking to sparky on a job site to become a licensed electrician now, you pretty much have to join the union and go thru thier program.
If you was aready licensed your in but anyone new to the field has to go to the union.
the home owner can only replace what is already there. no changes.
Hopefully there will be a new generation of good electrician come out of this.
IE. the pay for the residential side is bumped up to good levels and they take more pride in thier work.

 

[aabirdman]

I know you need GFCI's through out garage. There used to be a height standard. But here in CA Arc-faults are only required in bedrooms. Best description of the pics "amature night at the fair"

 

[aabirdman]

I almost forgot new code has switches required to be grounded

 

[oleguy]

some on here seem to think that pay has every thing to do with pride in their work.pride in your work is up to you.i've seen real slobs getting 30$ an hour.and seen 10$ an hour guys do picture perfect work.you should take pride in your work no matter what the pay.so if money makes good work,then we are all slobs?

 

[Coach James]

Sad to say I believe I take more care with wiring that I do than most "professional" electricians I've seen doing residential work. The commercial guys, that's another matter, there's some real knowledge and mastery there, but wow... these homebuilders definitely aim for the bottom of the barrel.

Case in point: I decided to put a new light fixture over the vanity in the downstairs half bath. Upon taking the old one down, I discover that apparently the elec had come along after the plumbers - don't get me started on THOSE guys - who had run the vent pipe right up the centerline of the vanity. "No problem," professional electrician says to himself. He whips out a round pancake box and screws it to the 4" DWV PVC line with drywall screws.

The upstairs baths were another matter... when I experienced loss of half a circuit upstairs, it didn't take me long to find this little smoldering souvenir in the wall:

Maybe I'm just dense, but is that plaster all over those wires and nuts?

Coach

 

[Gooch]

^^^^^^^^ oh yeaa.....In some of the older home down the street that were built in the late 1970 had aluminun wire and every few years one will burn.
The state of Iowa has a new law.
The local Ibrew has been airing a commercial on the radio every day telling us it the law that you have to have a licensed electrian perform your electrical work.
Talking to sparky on a job site to become a licensed electrician now, you pretty much have to join the union and go thru thier program.
If you was aready licensed your in but anyone new to the field has to go to the union.
the home owner can only replace what is already there. no changes.
Hopefully there will be a new generation of good electrician come out of this.
IE. the pay for the residential side is bumped up to good levels and they take more pride in thier work.

few things that are wrong with that.

In Iowa, there are two people that can pull permits. a person with a Contractor's license, or the homeowner(as long as it's not new construction) if the homeowner pulls the permit, he/she is the one that has to perform the work. If it is new construction, the only person that can pull a permit is someone with a Contractor's license.

there is a Non-union apprenticeship you can go through. nothing saying you have to go union. you can also take classes at a CC and then work and get your 8k hours as an apprentice(don't need to be enrolled in a program. once you get your documented 8k hours you can take the exam and get a JW license.

Farm's are pretty much exempt from all electrical permit requirements.

This is Iowa only, every state is different.

 

[Identaltech]

Gooch I'm only going by what sparky was telling me.
I know the homeowner use to be able to perform his own work but he said not any more.
It could be a load of BS
The Ibrew radio commercial stated "you have to use a qualified electician its the law."
now that I think about it. Being the home owner may make me qualified in my own home.
Is it a play with words?
and yes this is only Iowa.
Oleguy as far as taking pride in you work. This is not directly conected to pay but I belive you get what you pay for.
A employer pays low wages he attracts worker from the bottom of the barrel
(your less likly to get someone who cares about thier work.)
But your also right paying a high wage doesn't guarantee a good employee.
I would expect if you take pride in your work and out perform your peers you would move up or move on.
of coarse there is always that person who throws a wrench into my theory.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Oleguy as far as taking pride in you work. This is not directly conected to pay but I belive you get what you pay for.
A employer pays low wages he attracts worker from the bottom of the barrel
(your less likly to get someone who cares about thier work.)
But your also right paying a high wage doesn't guarantee a good employee.
I would expect if you take pride in your work and out perform your peers you would move up or move on.
of coarse there is always that person who throws a wrench into my theory.

How oh so true! As an airline mechanic in a well paying job, I see this. Mostly, you get good, caring mechanics, they are paid well and take pride in their work. There are always a few bad apples in the bunch. We have "mechanic helpers" and they are not paid so well for what they do. Some are licensed, some are not, and it really doesn't seem to make much difference, you have a bunch of don't care people, and a few who do care, a complete reversal of the high paid mechanics. Pay does matter.

Charles

 

[oleguy]

Maybe I'm just dense, but is that plaster all over those wires and nuts?

Coach

more than likely just paint.