Propane cost

[Kevin54]

Wow I had to get propane yesterday for the 500 gallon tank at the house and the 120 galllon at the garage. Out-f'ing-rageous From what everyone has been hearing around my area is that propane and natural gas prices were dropping. If they are, I'd hate to see what the prices were earlier. Back in May or June I paid $2.44/gal. Yesterday was $2.80I can only hope that we have a mild winter What I don't understand is that propane comes from oil, yet oil goes down, gas goes down, propane goes up. I imagine ones that heat with fuel oil are getting hit pretty hard too. I also imagine that natural gas isn't dropping like the say natural gas is dropping either. So what's the prices in everyone elses area?

 

[Dawgfan]

I paid $2.89 in Sep. I thought it would be down by now. They are gouging us.

 

[daveblank]

Last march I paid $3.99gal. 2 weeks ago it was $2.72

 

[D KRAGER]

2.20 was my budget billing price Central IL

 

[SteveU]

2.20 for fuel oil last week, 2.39 for propane yesterday for the trailer. Fuel oil driver said it had been up to 4.47/gal this summer.

 

[Junkman]

My propane supplier has told me that some propane is domestic, and it is also imported, from I believe he said Ireland. I have no idea why or how they transport certain fuels from certain places, however, I do know that specific fuels are more widely used in some parts of the world than others. As an example, the US is probably the largest user of gasoline for autos, and most autos in Europe are powered by diesel. The price of crude oil sometimes is not so much a factor in the total cost of the product than one would assume. Demand for the particular fuel is also a major factor. Diesel fuel used to be relatively inexpensive as compared to gasoline, but that all reversed when the US Government mandated the use of low sulfur diesel. The rest of the world for the most part, was already using low sulfur diesel, and when we started to produce it here in the States, it increased its manufacturing costs, and it also became an exportable commodity, which it wasn't before. Getting back to propane...... If you are a large user of propane, ask your propane delivery company if they would consider you for Selkirk plus pricing. This means that you will be paying the wholesale market price plus a specific amount over that price. I have a Selkirk price plus 20 cents per gallon contract. To get this, I had to partner with another volume user, but our combined usage was enough to get the suppliers competitive.

Where Does LP Gas Come From ?

LP Gas is a derivative of two large energy industries: natural gas processing and crude oil refining.

When natural gas is drawn from the earth, it is a mixture of several gases and liquids. Methane, which is sold by gas utilities as “natural gas” constitutes about 90 percent of this mixture. Of the remaining 10 percent, 5 percent is propane and 5 percent is other gases such as butane and ethane. Before natural gas can be transported or used, the LP Gases (which are slightly heavier than methane, the major component of natural gas) are separated out. Depending on the ”wetness” of a producing gas field, gas liquids generally contain 1%-3% of the unprocessed gas stream. Some LP Gases are also trapped in crude oil. In order to stabilize the crude oil for pipeline or tanker distribution, these “associated” or ”natural gases” are further processed into LP Gas. Worldwide, gas processing is a source of approximately 60% of LP Gas produced.

In crude oil refining the LP Gases are the first products produced on the way to making the heavier fuels such as diesel, jet fuel, fuel oil, and gasoline. Roughly 3% of a typical barrel of crude oil is refined into LP Gas although as much as 40% of a barrel could be converted into LP Gas. Worldwide, crude oil refining is the source for the other roughly 40% of LP Gas supplies although the ratio between gas processing and refining varies among regions.

LP Gas production from these sources is a natural derivative. That means production of LP Gas is assured since the primary motive for gas processors and refiners is to produce fuels other than LP Gas but first the LP Gases are produced. Although tied to the production of natural gas and crude oil, LP Gas has its own distinct marketing advantages and can perform nearly every fuel function of the primary fuels from which it is derived.

 

[hidollartoys]

Where you really get to the heart of the cost is the final BTU content of any particular raw fuel gas stream. I believe the BTU content of propane is lower than natural gas requiring more cubic feet to produce the same heat level. Of course this relates to heating system efficency. Just another 2 cents.

 

[5Cent]

I feel ya, they just topped off our 500lb tank yesterday, we're locked in at $2.49.

 

[Dave Carney]

Yeah, it's a rip. Look at the spread between wholesale and retail...

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/twip_propane.html

 

[mpraddict]

Prices here have actually dropped since summer. I prepurchased in August at $2.49 thinking they'd be higher this winter....my mistake, I can buy it now for $2.19 from the same supplier!

 

[dropride]

Jees i just got 250 gallons last week at $3.09/ gal

 

[tdkkart]

Yeah, it's a rip. Look at the spread between wholesale and retail...

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/twip_propane.html

Wow, a year ago they weren't even doubling their cost, this year they're more than tripling it.
Much different than the gasoline market where they are lucky to get 2-3%.
What a hosing...........

 

[GSSFC]

Jees i just got 250 gallons last week at $3.09/ gal

I did too, why the heck are some people buying at almost a $1 less???

I'm kinda stuck as the company I buy from owns the damn tank, so i can't shop around. I don't know how much it costs or where you can buy your own tank, but I should look into a 500 or 1000 gallon in ground and get rid of the (2) 120 gallon tanks I have (one for the house -gas range and water heater & one for the shop -water heater for radiant heat and rinnai)

Tim

 

[Junkman]

You can purchase tanks from Tractor Supply, but many gas suppliers will not fill a above ground homeowner owned tank. Part of the cost of the gas is the rental value of the tank itself. Once you price out a 500 or 1000 gallon buried propane tank, you will soon realize that the cost will far exceed the cost of renting. Unless you are a volume user, they are not going to discount the price per gallon. It cost just as much to deliver 100 gallons as it does 500 gallons. There is a lot of expense in delivering fuel, whether it be propane or fuel oil. All of this is built into the price. The more you use in a year, the lower the price will go.

 

[GSSFC]

You can purchase tanks from Tractor Supply, but many gas suppliers will not fill a above ground homeowner owned tank. Part of the cost of the gas is the rental value of the tank itself. Once you price out a 500 or 1000 gallon buried propane tank, you will soon realize that the cost will far exceed the cost of renting. Unless you are a volume user, they are not going to discount the price per gallon. It cost just as much to deliver 100 gallons as it does 500 gallons. There is a lot of expense in delivering fuel, whether it be propane or fuel oil. All of this is built into the price. The more you use in a year, the lower the price will go.

Well I guess that is one downside to have efficient structures! Oh well, I guess I'll stick with what I have and let "the man" stick it to me on price.

Tim

 

[ironroad 9c1]

I find it hard to beleive that gas is now $1.49 -1.39 in places around here but kero is still ******** over $4.00 a gallon.

 

[must8657]

i am in illinois, and all of the suppliers around here will fill homeowner owned tanks. they do want you to use their tank so you are locked into using them. but you will get a better price with your own tank since they don't have to include the lease fee. you can also call around and get the lowest price each time you need to fill.
jason

 

[hammlm]

I filled the 500 U/G tank and the 120 gal bottle late last week. I know this isn't in keeping with any of the other prices reported here, but I paid $1.80/gal. I was happy when I saw the bill. Now that I see what you're all paying, I'm *really* happy.

 

[denis4x4]

I'm locked in with AmeriGas at $2.38 per gallon and $2.80 with the local Co-Op. AmeriGas took over a local supplier last year and created a text book case on how to screw up a loyal customer base.

LaPlata county (Durango) is one of the largest producers of natural gas in the country. Sixty percent of the county property taxes are paid by gas producers. I'm ashamed (not really) to admit how low are property taxes are because of this!

 

[jmack]

It's crazy how widely the prices vary.

I'm in north eastern portion of MD and just got 250 gallons delivered yesterday (12/17) from Amerigas for $1.39 /gal.

 

[Tom2]

Where you really get to the heart of the cost is the final BTU content of any particular raw fuel gas stream. I believe the BTU content of propane is lower than natural gas requiring more cubic feet to produce the same heat level. Of course this relates to heating system efficency. Just another 2 cents.

Actually its just the opposite. Propane has more heat than Nat gas. With fuel oil having more than both.

I just installed a propane furnace. (switched from oil)

Wish I hadnt now. Propane is usually $1 less a gallon. Not right now..

They filled the tank at $2.67 / gallon.

I was shocked. I thought it would be below $2 for sure..

I ended up talking them into giving me a discount to $2.37/gal because I had to buy a whole tank full.

Ended up writing a check for $750.



I always remember propane being cheaper than gas...Guess its not.

Propane companies can gouge much easier too. When they setup a tank for you..You can only buy propane from them. Basically they can charge whatever they want.

With fuel oil you buy the tank, then shop around prices. Works out a little better.

Should have just went with wood.

 

[v8garage]

Actually its just the opposite. Propane has more heat than Nat gas. With fuel oil having more than both.

I just installed a propane furnace. (switched from oil)

Wish I hadnt now. Propane is usually $1 less a gallon. Not right now..

They filled the tank at $2.67 / gallon.

I was shocked. I thought it would be below $2 for sure..

I ended up talking them into giving me a discount to $2.37/gal because I had to buy a whole tank full.

Ended up writing a check for $750.



I always remember propane being cheaper than gas...Guess its not.

Propane companies can gouge much easier too. When they setup a tank for you..You can only buy propane from them. Basically they can charge whatever they want.

With fuel oil you buy the tank, then shop around prices. Works out a little better.

Should have just went with wood.

How big is your tank?

 

[Tom2]

How big is your tank?

330 gal. Actually holds around 250, I think.
I also paid about $150 install fee. Would have been more, but I dug the trench.

 

[jmack]

As others have already noted, the key with propane is to own your tank, otherwise you'll pay $1+ more per gallon.

My newly constructed house came with a 500 gal tank buried on the front yard from the builder. This has made it very easy to shop around. Only downside is before an initial delivery each company wants to run a credit check on you and have you fill out an account application. Bit of a pain, but savings are worth it.

Again, I paid $1.39/gal delivered from Amerigas yesterday.

 

[Tom2]

Again, I paid $1.39/gal delivered from Amerigas yesterday.

Go to hell!



As a side note, I wish pellet stoves were cheaper. And pellets. Theyve tripled in just a few years.

Otherwise, Id have one of those.

Natural gas is the best..but not available on the street I live. Hoepfully well get it in a few years. The cheapest form of heat.

 

[denis4x4]

"As others have already noted, the key with propane is to own your tank, otherwise you'll pay $1+ more per gallon."


Not so here. Tank rental fees are cheap compared to the purchase price. Code says that you cannot have a tank with more than 120 gallons next to a building. So, we set two 120 tanks side by side with an equalizer connection next to the shop and it's legal.

 

[boiler7904]

It could be worse. A month or two ago, there was a news story about heating oil customers in New England. They were all demanding refunds from their oil suppliers after they locked into contracts at $5 a gallon and then it dropped into the $3 range.

Like many consumers that locked into contracts for propane / heating oil this summer, the dealers locked into similar contracts with their suppliers when oil was going nuts. They were betting that prices would stay high or go even higher when they made their deals. It didn't. They're stuck paying their supply costs and have to pass those prices onto the consumer. If everyone was able to lock into rockbottom prices this summer and oil went through the roof, would anyone really be complaining about how good of deals they got? Not likely.

Our utility company handles both natural gas and electricity transmission. Natural gas has dropped pretty steadily for the last couple of billing cycles. Hopefully it continues to drop. They are trying to get regulators to approve a 16% increase in electric rates. It's always something with utility companies.

 

[ford88]

I wish I had some of your prices I was thinking of a garage heater tube heater I called for propane prices around 3.89 to 5.99 I'll have to re-think this at that price way to costly to heat.No natural gas by me.maybe I'll have to go with something fueled by oil..ED

 

[chevy2]

Wow some of you guys are really getting honked. I paid $1.19 two weeks ago.

 

[dropride]

Please dont rub it in

 

[walrus]

It could be worse. A month or two ago, there was a news story about heating oil customers in New England. They were all demanding refunds from their oil suppliers after they locked into contracts at $5 a gallon and then it dropped into the $3 range.

Like many consumers that locked into contracts for propane / heating oil this summer, the dealers locked into similar contracts with their suppliers when oil was going nuts. They were betting that prices would stay high or go even higher when they made their deals. It didn't. They're stuck paying their supply costs and have to pass those prices onto the consumer. If everyone was able to lock into rockbottom prices this summer and oil went through the roof, would anyone really be complaining about how good of deals they got? Not likely..

Locking in a price in New England has worked in the consumers favor like 13 out of 15 years. Essentially you are playing the futures market so sometimes it doesn't go the way you thought. 2oil can be bought in MAine right now for 1.80, lot of these people locked in at 4.50 or higher. The local oil companies are also locked into these prices, they bought contracts to fulfill these orders so they aren't making a killing on these accounts.

 

[Doc Holiday]

Dec 22 Propane 3.34 i got ripped......fuel oil 1.98. central ct. Time for a new dealer for propane.

 

[jcuda440-6]

After we filled up our half empty 500 gallon propane tank and looked at the price per gallon ($2.54) we went and purchased a pellet furnace. It is more work than the propane furnace but I would rather give my money to a American farmer for corn than a energy company.

 

[Tom2]

Pellets are REALLY expensive right now. About 5 years ago pellets, and pellet stoves were really affordable.
Now pellets are $6-$7/bag(maybe its less by the ton), and the stoves are about $2000.

But Im with you in that Id rather give my money to a local farmer than some other country, that probaly doesnt like me.

Also, you have the flexibility to buy as many bags as you want. No worrying about deliveries, etc.
Ideally you could have that with a heat pump or wood stove for an extra cold day, or if pellets became hard to find.

I want to grow my own corn, then burn it. Free heat!

 

[Junkman]

When pellets were $2 a 40# bag, they were a bargain. Now that the pellets prices have kept pace with other energy sources, at $6 a bag, they are no longer a bargain. Another thing to consider is that not all pellets are created equally. I have gotten some that are soft wood, and they don't produce the same amount of heat per pound that the hardwood pellets do. Problem is that today, the pellet manufacturers are not differentiate between the hardwood and softwood. They just call everything "Premium Pellets". In the past, I always bought Energex pellets, since they were the best that I could find. Now, the dealers want a premium price of $8 a bag for them. I have been buying Pennington pellets for $6 a bag at Walmart. The best part of being a regular pellet customer at Walmart, is that the guy that helps load them in the car will give me all the broken and torn bags for free. This week, I picked up the balance of what I will need to get me through to April 1st, based on one bag a day.
Now that oil prices are falling, I expect to see pellet prices hit rock bottom this spring. A lot of pellet dealers are already over stocked on them, and I believe that they are going to want to bail on them as soon as the weather gets better. Storing pellets outside in the summer deteriorates the plastic bags, and when it rains, the moisture gets into the bags, ruining the pellets.

 

[BigChevy80]

I find it hard to beleive that gas is now $1.49 -1.39 in places around here but kero is still ******** over $4.00 a gallon.

Seems kerosene has always been a ripoff.

Any device that runs kerosene can also run on diesel fuel or fuel oil with no problem. Diesel is usually $1.50 or so cheaper than kero. If you can find a place that sells off-road diesel, you'll save even more.

 

[ironroad 9c1]

funny enough off road diesel around here is just as much as reg , I guess to keep people from trying to use it in road vehicles,but i have gotten rid of my nasty smelly kerosene heater .

 

[Doc Holiday]

Pellets are over the top here.. 320. bucks a ton. Fuel oil is much cheaper as of now.

 

[walrus]

. I have gotten some that are soft wood, and they don't produce the same amount of heat per pound that the hardwood pellets do. .

It shouldn't matter hard or soft as wood per pound should have the same heat value. With cord wood, a cord of oak weighs alot more than a cord of pine, therefore oak is a better wood. But you buy pellets by the pound so in theory it shouldn't matter?

 

[Tom2]

Had my first refill of the season. Used 133 gallons. $2.45/gallon.
Thats for about 5-6 weeks of use.

Unforunately my electric bill was also around $260.
Went ahead and unplugged my radiant oil filled heater.

Temps are even colder now. I'll be lucky if I dont go through twice as much next fill..

t-stat is set to 65* and still running a ton.