nate379
Banned
Is there any reason a guy should use PVC or ABS pipe? I usually end up using ABS since that's what seems to be used on the stuff I work on. Don't have to prime it either... well I never have anyway.
PVC or ABS... which one?
- Thread starter nate379
- Start date
nadogail
Well-known member
Depends on what you want the pipe to do for you. ABS works well for Drains, Waste Lines and Vents.
PVC or CPVC works well for water lines.
Both are cheaper than copper, and easier for most to work with.
Neither PVC or ABS is suitable for compressed air.
PVC or CPVC works well for water lines.
Both are cheaper than copper, and easier for most to work with.
Neither PVC or ABS is suitable for compressed air.
This is basically how I see used every where. I think that this is pretty much the standard.
I was just wondering if there was any reason. My parent's place has PVC for all the drains... though my Dad built the house, wired it and plumbed it so it's not like he followed code books. Just used common sense and that's about it.
ABS doesn't need primer right? I have never used it anyway.
ABS doesn't need primer right? I have never used it anyway.
larry4406
Well-known member
Here in northern VA - most plumbers use PVC for all groundworks and domestic waste and vent. Copper water lines are quickly becoming a thing of the past having been replaced by CPVC. Well water and some domestic supplies can be hard on copper.
Other areas seem to use ABS for DMV and groundworks, not sure why. ABS is not readily availalbe here.
Other areas seem to use ABS for DMV and groundworks, not sure why. ABS is not readily availalbe here.
bgott
Well-known member
PVC is used for drains around here, also. There are different fittings for potable water and drainage, I was informed of that by an HD employee. In the city of Houston it won't pass inspection if you use the wrong fitting. I'm in the county, no sweat.
VHF
Well-known member
I think it is a regional thing as to what is most common for drain lines. ABS is UV resistant whereas exposed white PVC is not. ABS is commonly used for RVs and mobile homes where parts of the plumbing are exposed underneith. However, PVC is typically sturdier and less to prone to sag between supports.
I think there is an impression out there that PVC is "better", perhaps because ABS is used for trailers. However, it sounds like from an environmental standpoint ABS is the more benign material.
I think there is an impression out there that PVC is "better", perhaps because ABS is used for trailers. However, it sounds like from an environmental standpoint ABS is the more benign material.
tcianci
Well-known member
A little anecdotal data on white PVC and its' resistance to UV. Check out the vent pipes or what some guys call stink pipes from your residential plumbing system..the ones coming out of your roof. They go for decades without degradation from sunlight. The ones on my house have been in the sun for 30 years...no problems. It is important to note that many plastics, unless specifically UV stabilized will deteriorate in the sun. Standard "poly" film is a great example...leave it outdoors for a year or so and if you can still find it, it will crumple into nothing as soon as you touch it. The same is true for certain plastic sheets that aren't designed for glazing purposes. Admittedly, I don't know what characteristics of PVC or ABS would make them better suited for one application than the other.
kdtjb
Member
I find abs a little easier to work with, and the glue does't give me a hang over.
ddawg16
Well-known member
It's real simple....
The black color hids the color of the poop.....
White? Well.....a leak would be real obvious....
Ok....all joking aside.....it looks like ABS is prefered because the inside is a bit smoother than PVC and it handles soil loads very well. PVC is a bit more brittle and I can see where larger diameters might crack or break.
The black color hids the color of the poop.....
White? Well.....a leak would be real obvious....
Ok....all joking aside.....it looks like ABS is prefered because the inside is a bit smoother than PVC and it handles soil loads very well. PVC is a bit more brittle and I can see where larger diameters might crack or break.
PVC is used around here in specific commercial applications where a lot of chemicals will go down the drains, as PVC can handle many different chemicals that would melt ABS. If you are using the drains for regular residential use, buy the one that is cheaper.
1320stang
Well-known member
ABS is illegal in Oklahoma. Has been since about '90.
Bib Overalls
Well-known member
When ABS burns it produces a toxic gas. Not allowed here.
1320stang
Well-known member
Now that you mention it, I think that's why it's not allowed here as well.
As opposed to that springtime fresh gas that PVC makes when it burns? I believe wood emitts toxic gas when it burns too...better get all that out of your house.
crankshaftdan II
Well-known member
I believe ABS will break-down faster from drain chemical cleaners than PVC, thus causing a bad gassing effect in the home. On the flip side, I have seen PVC melted completely from muratic acid poured down the drain pipes to get rid of willow tree roots, instead of calling Roto-Rooter!!
Provided code allows you to in your area - just use what you are more comfortable with. Practically speaking, there is very little difference between the two and both are used in many areas.
It really comes down to personal preference and I find it is a regional thing. Some guys have always used ABS, others have always used PVC. I do know that ABS requires a single glue and does not need primer, whereas PVC uses a separate primer and glue. Inspectors like PVC because they can see the purple primer and can easily verify each joint has been glued... it is quite possible someone could mess up and forget to glue an ABS joint and you might not know about it until damage has been done years later.
I'd say PVC is more popular however, so it tends to be more common. In my area, ABS is probably only used about 10% of the time and PVC is much more abundant. They both will do the job and if someone is having issues with either product, they probably installed it wrong.
It really comes down to personal preference and I find it is a regional thing. Some guys have always used ABS, others have always used PVC. I do know that ABS requires a single glue and does not need primer, whereas PVC uses a separate primer and glue. Inspectors like PVC because they can see the purple primer and can easily verify each joint has been glued... it is quite possible someone could mess up and forget to glue an ABS joint and you might not know about it until damage has been done years later.
I'd say PVC is more popular however, so it tends to be more common. In my area, ABS is probably only used about 10% of the time and PVC is much more abundant. They both will do the job and if someone is having issues with either product, they probably installed it wrong.
Would surmise that ABS is being phased out is that there must be something in the composition of the material that does hold up as well as originally planned. Also think it my have some toxic properties not conducive to the human body.
In my observation, PVC has tighter tolerance and deeper reach in joints (read better holding power) than ABS. In some areas, the water is now so bad, it eats up copper(actually the zinc out of the copper, if memory serves)and has very short service life. Of course, the plumbers love it.
I have started using PEX for water pressure lines which can be placed in almost any position with little difficulty. Just unroll it, thread fittings in and clamp.Pex seems to be used more in commercial applications. Bad issues are having to purchase high price swedging tool to press compression rings on the brass fittings, and it can not be installed in direct sunlight. Also, maximum operating temp is 180* Upside side is, will not bust if frozen and easy to handle.
Concerning PVC for air purposes: was surprised to find that PVC is acceptable in air pressure applications. Just looked and could not the "Industrial Fluids" Vol 1 manual to provide exact wording. This is thorough publication about fluids and air, giving pressure ratings for various metals and thicknesses, both fluid and air. I then used sched 40 PVC for shop air and have had no problems. I do shut off compressor and intake valve at night- when I think of it.
In my observation, PVC has tighter tolerance and deeper reach in joints (read better holding power) than ABS. In some areas, the water is now so bad, it eats up copper(actually the zinc out of the copper, if memory serves)and has very short service life. Of course, the plumbers love it.
I have started using PEX for water pressure lines which can be placed in almost any position with little difficulty. Just unroll it, thread fittings in and clamp.Pex seems to be used more in commercial applications. Bad issues are having to purchase high price swedging tool to press compression rings on the brass fittings, and it can not be installed in direct sunlight. Also, maximum operating temp is 180* Upside side is, will not bust if frozen and easy to handle.
Concerning PVC for air purposes: was surprised to find that PVC is acceptable in air pressure applications. Just looked and could not the "Industrial Fluids" Vol 1 manual to provide exact wording. This is thorough publication about fluids and air, giving pressure ratings for various metals and thicknesses, both fluid and air. I then used sched 40 PVC for shop air and have had no problems. I do shut off compressor and intake valve at night- when I think of it.
Last edited:
Here we go again... you asked for it!
Let me just tell you up front - no PVC is NOT acceptable for air. The manufacturers do not certify it for air, it is not tested for air, it typically has warnings printed on it that it isn't for air, and it does not meet any ATSM or OSHA approvals for air.
I'm sure others will expand upon this, but in short - just because something hasn't given you any problems does not mean it is acceptable or a good idea. I could use a 22 caliber cartridge as a fuse too...and it might work just fine for years, but it is hardly a good idea and is just an accident waiting to happen.
I knew this would cause some controversy and get some flack over it. Will post the link or info when find the book. Its at the other place. I have used this for over 3 years and do not expect any OSHA inspectors to show up as it is a private garage, not a going concern. It works for me and expect only significant impact upon blown line would be shitting in my pants if within earshot.
I do drive over the speed limits on occasion, and there are posted signs and statistics everywhere concerning probable outcome.
I do drive over the speed limits on occasion, and there are posted signs and statistics everywhere concerning probable outcome.
RbrtAWhyt
Well-known member
1320stang
Well-known member
Can I have your fleet if you die in the PVC pipe explosion?
Seriously though, I was standing in a buddy's shop when a 2" PVC line burst and a 6" shard of a 1/4 diameter of the pipe, pointed on both ends, flew across the shop and embedded itself in the plastic backed insulation of the metal shop building 60' away. Went across at head height about 10' from where we were standing. This line was behind the horizontal compressor in an area where nothing could fall on it.
PVC is rated to 600 PSI but for fluid which is not compressible.
Seriously though, I was standing in a buddy's shop when a 2" PVC line burst and a 6" shard of a 1/4 diameter of the pipe, pointed on both ends, flew across the shop and embedded itself in the plastic backed insulation of the metal shop building 60' away. Went across at head height about 10' from where we were standing. This line was behind the horizontal compressor in an area where nothing could fall on it.
PVC is rated to 600 PSI but for fluid which is not compressible.
Here we go again... you asked for it!
Let me just tell you up front - no PVC is NOT acceptable for air. The manufacturers do not certify it for air, it is not tested for air, it typically has warnings printed on it that it isn't for air, and it does not meet any ATSM or OSHA approvals for air.
I'm sure others will expand upon this, but in short - just because something hasn't given you any problems does not mean it is acceptable or a good idea. I could use a 22 caliber cartridge as a fuse too...and it might work just fine for years, but it is hardly a good idea and is just an accident waiting to happen.
This wasn't what I had in mind for my first post here....but here it goes.
The danger has to do with the release of stored energy.
Take this example....
You have two balloons: one filled with water and one filled with air.
You poke the one filled with water with a pin = water squirts out.
You poke the one filled with air = it explodes.
Using PVC pipe for pressurized air is a VERY bad idea and can be extremely dangerous. I work in this industry and have seen "incredible" results from people who did not properly make sure that the air was bled from a line during hydraulic system pressurization. Please don't use PVC for pressurized air lines; it can kill you if something goes wrong. Manufacturers of the products will tell you this - save cash somewhere else....please!
I know that others in this thread have said it as well, but given my background (and what I see on a regular basis), my conscience tells me that I have to post something.
May the rest of my posts on this site have nothing to do with work
Last edited:
benjamming
Well-known member
I believe ABS will break-down faster from drain chemical cleaners than PVC, thus causing a bad gassing effect in the home. On the flip side, I have seen PVC melted completely from muratic acid poured down the drain pipes to get rid of willow tree roots, instead of calling Roto-Rooter!!
PVC won't melt from muriatic (hydrochloric) acid. CPVC is better but PVC will work fine for drain lines exposed to HCl. Cole-Parmer Chemical Resistance Database
PVC DWV pipe is quieter then ABS when turds are flying by. But Cast Iron is used more often when noise is an issue.
ABS is easy for a back yard guy to put together and not have a leak and more readily available around here. Both will work.
If you do use PVC, it needs to be DWV fittings and not water fittings.
ABS is easy for a back yard guy to put together and not have a leak and more readily available around here. Both will work.
If you do use PVC, it needs to be DWV fittings and not water fittings.