Radiant vs. Forced Heat on Propane

[KYard72]

Going to be putting up a 40x75 buidling with 16ft ceiling in main area, it'll have a closed off upstairs for storage.
Curious on everyone's experience with radiant heat vs. forced air heaters.
I'd be using propane for the heat source.
For the radiant I was planning on just running a tube down the middle the whole length but am open to suggestions.
Planning on having ceiling fans installed.
Would appreciate any and all input.
What are the thoughts?!?!

 

[theoldwizard1]

When people say "radiant heat" they usually mean in floor, hot water radiant heat. Expensive to install (hundreds of feet of tubing in the floor), but very, VERY comfortable ! Even if you do not install in-floor radiant heat, your really should lay down a vapor barrier and if you can afford it, 2" of rigid foam board. Irregardless of what type of heating you choose, under slab vapor barrier and insulation will make a big difference.

If you want cold storage upstairs, you need ceiling insulation, between the floors to reduce the heat loss on the first floor. 12" would be good !

 

[yeldogt]

Insulation is the most important item ... make a tight well insulated building.

I think you are talking about the tube heaters ..correct? IMO they are a solution for a cold drafty space -- like auto facilities where doors are always being opene. A well insulated space can easily be heated with forced air.

 

[Buckgnarly]

I am 100% happy with my tube heater. I did not want to spend the money on in floor radiant nor does it have the ability to raise temps quickly.
I did not want forced air as it's too loud and not the best to heat air in the top of my 14' garage....not ideal putting warm air at the top and expecting even heating.

I can tell you that the tube heats the floor and objects in the garage, so insulate the slab as mentioned above! It recovers VERY fast, 50 to 60 in less than 20 min with an 80k 20' tube heater in a 32x24 with 14' ceilings. It heats objects as opposed to the air, so make sure it is well clear of lifts and especially cars that may be on the lift at times.

I think radiant tube does not get enough attention, mainly because you need tall ceilings, which you will have. I'd go tube over forced air for sure!

 

[finn]

I suspect the main reason the hanging radiant tube heaters aren’t more popular in normal home workshops are the higher initial cost and high ceiling height requirements.

They seem to be popular in large, high ceiling warehouses and commercial shops.

The local Walmart has them at the main entrance and the blast of hot air they put out feels good on a sub zero morning.

 

[yeldogt]

I suspect the main reason the hanging radiant tube heaters aren’t more popular in normal home workshops are the higher initial cost and high ceiling height requirements.

They seem to be popular in large, high ceiling warehouses and commercial shops.

The local Walmart has them at the main entrance and the blast of hot air they put out feels good on a sub zero morning.

While low intensity unit are available -- they are really for heating difficult spaces. Spaces where you don't or can't warm the whole area -- they are really not ideal for general heating where a temp is going to be maintained throughout the space. they provide localized (space) heating.

 

[KYard72]

Insulation is the most important item ... make a tight well insulated building.

I think you are talking about the tube heaters ..correct? IMO they are a solution for a cold drafty space -- like auto facilities where doors are always being opene. A well insulated space can easily be heated with forced air.

Thanks for this reply, I am talking about tube radiant heater not the in floor.

 

[KYard72]

When people say "radiant heat" they usually mean in floor, hot water radiant heat. Expensive to install (hundreds of feet of tubing in the floor), but very, VERY comfortable ! Even if you do not install in-floor radiant heat, your really should lay down a vapor barrier and if you can afford it, 2" of rigid foam board. Irregardless of what type of heating you choose, under slab vapor barrier and insulation will make a big difference.

If you want cold storage upstairs, you need ceiling insulation, between the floors to reduce the heat loss on the first floor. 12" would be good !

Thank you for this information, I was not clear in my initial post, I was talking about the tube radiant heat. I have heard the in floor heat is expensive but nice. I do appreciate the thought of the vapor barrier and foam board, something I actually have never heard of!

 

[KYard72]

I am 100% happy with my tube heater. I did not want to spend the money on in floor radiant nor does it have the ability to raise temps quickly.
I did not want forced air as it's too loud and not the best to heat air in the top of my 14' garage....not ideal putting warm air at the top and expecting even heating.

I can tell you that the tube heats the floor and objects in the garage, so insulate the slab as mentioned above! It recovers VERY fast, 50 to 60 in less than 20 min with an 80k 20' tube heater in a 32x24 with 14' ceilings. It heats objects as opposed to the air, so make sure it is well clear of lifts and especially cars that may be on the lift at times.

I think radiant tube does not get enough attention, mainly because you need tall ceilings, which you will have. I'd go tube over forced air for sure!

Awesome information here, thank you! I am planning on finishing off the inside with metal/tin walls. With that and the vapor barrier and foam board below the floor I'm thinking this radiant tube heater is the way to go. My local propane supplier is stating that I'd be around $2,000 for the unit and tubing which I can install. Then they would come in and plumb it from the tank to the unit for about $500. Then I'd have the cost of the tank and propane on top of that which sounds to be about $1,500 for a 500 gal tank or $60 per year rental of the tank.

 

[yeldogt]

Awesome information here, thank you! I am planning on finishing off the inside with metal/tin walls. With that and the vapor barrier and foam board below the floor I'm thinking this radiant tube heater is the way to go. My local propane supplier is stating that I'd be around $2,000 for the unit and tubing which I can install. Then they would come in and plumb it from the tank to the unit for about $500. Then I'd have the cost of the tank and propane on top of that which sounds to be about $1,500 for a 500 gal tank or $60 per month rental of the tank.

Is the plan to maintain a temp ? What's the insulation in the walls and roof/ceiling.

Propane can get expensive -- when NG is not available correct insulation and air ceiling is very important and has a short payback if you are tying to maintain a temp.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Awesome information here, thank you! I am planning on finishing off the inside with metal/tin walls. With that and the vapor barrier and foam board below the floor I'm thinking this radiant tube heater is the way to go. My local propane supplier is stating that I'd be around $2,000 for the unit and tubing which I can install. Then they would come in and plumb it from the tank to the unit for about $500. Then I'd have the cost of the tank and propane on top of that which sounds to be about $1,500 for a 500 gal tank or $60 per month rental of the tank.

Holy ****, I paid 1k for a 80k 20' tube...but it was through a friend who installs them, and he did hookup free. I put the tube up, he hooked up the lines, then gas company did hook up to tank.
My local propane hooked up and provided tank for free, you sure about the 60 a month rental? That's INSANE! Around here if you use about 100 gallons a year they charge nothing for rental, but you must use them to fill.

My unit is a Roberts Gordon, a pretty good industrial name from what I've been told, not a cheap offbrand.
http://www.robertsgordon.com/

 

[KYard72]

In the colder months I am planning to maintain at about 50 degrees or so.
Good insulation will be a must. I have not planned it out yet but will not be slacking on the insulation for the walls and ceiling. Also planning on putting up ceiling fans.
Natural Gas is not an option.
I'm in a rural area and there is not much for trees around where the shop will be, also kind of on top of a hill, so yes the insulation will be an important part of this build. Any suggestions or thoughts on the insulation would be appreciated.

 

[KYard72]

Holy ****, I paid 1k for a 80k 20' tube...but it was through a friend who installs them, and he did hookup free. I put the tube up, he hooked up the lines, then gas company did hook up to tank.
My local propane hooked up and provided tank for free, you sure about the 60 a month rental? That's INSANE! Around here if you use about 100 gallons a year they charge nothing for rental, but you must use them to fill.

My unit is a Roberts Gordon, a pretty good industrial name from what I've been told, not a cheap offbrand.
http://www.robertsgordon.com/

$60 per year, not per month, my bad

 

[Buckgnarly]

I have 2" foam on slab and concrete walls, R21 in walls, R38 in ceiling and an 18x10 R17 door. We have had a cooler Winter this year with a BRUTAL 2 week stretch in late Dec, like not even above 0F for two weeks.
I've used about 140 gallons of propane so far keeping it at 50 and raising a few times to 55 over weekends, one to 65.

 

[Buckgnarly]

$60 per year, not per month, my bad

That's better, but shop around if you can. The game up here is to play the "I will switch" to get better pricing, it *****. My company also allows to prebuy at Summer prices, which can save at least a dollar a gallon. I estimate what I will need and lock in the price anytime between May and Oct. It's like gambling

 

[yeldogt]

I have 2" foam on slab and concrete walls, R21 in walls, R38 in ceiling and an 18x10 R17 door. We have had a cooler Winter this year with a BRUTAL 2 week stretch in late Dec, like not even above 0F for two weeks.
I've used about 140 gallons of propane so far keeping it at 50 and raising a few times to 55 over weekends, one to 65.

The OP's space is about 4x what you have. I use a heater 1/2 your size (40k) for a space a bit more then 2x what you have ..mine is about 1700sf with good insulation. I use a cabinet heater and keep in in the low 60's -- heater type is all about temps. I have every high ceilings in both of my studios.

check with the propane companies on how they price -- some charge based on use and number of deliveries. There has been a lot of consolidation in the propane business ... the big guys are buying up the small players and they are not as customer friendly ... my new tank will not be rented -- 1000 g underground.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

AFAIK radiant tube is a GREAT thing for areas where you open the door a lot, otherwise if you're trying to heat a well insulated space without massive air exchange, they are something like 60% efficient at heating the area below them. I would think a 93% modine (or if you hate noise, a condensing furnace with large ducts to reduce air noise) would save you a lot of $ in LP.

I wouldn't rule out in-floor heating, or even perimeter baseboard. they make nice baseboards (they don't have to be the cheap finned tube style), and you could run that with a condensing boiler for ultra-low noise, excellent AFUE, and solid comfort.