Requesting some advice

[EOT 4 Life]

Hello, I would appreciate some advice regarding the removal and refinishing of an outdoor walkway/patio combination. The area is 300 square feet and 13 years old and in decent shape, but last year I applied Olympic Rescue-It and over the winter many areas peeled up and chipped away, so I pressure washed and removed whatever else I could, but the rest is stuck on pretty good. I also tried using a paint stripper as recommended by customer service to no avail, so I have contacted two companies that specialize in refinishing concrete and one suggests grinding/polishing it and applying a non-skid coating to the surface, and the other says definitely not to polish an outside area. They instead suggest this:
1)Scarify area using T-Rex Diamonds to remove floor coating from existing floor.
2)Grind the concrete floor to within 1-2 inches of the walls with diamond 40 and 80 grit removing floor slab imperfections until there is a uniform scratch pattern.
3)Apply, as per mfr. specifications, Prosoco Consolideck LS Concrete Hardener/Sealer.

Olympic is assisting me with some of the costs, but it hardly is 1/4 of what the professionals will charge.

I was hopeful to get an idea from the forum on what route I should take, although I would think the 2nd proposal is the correct one. Also, I am pretty handy and was thinking of using a 7" Diamabrush attached to my grinder and attempting to do it myself, because the quotes are a bit out of my price range.

Here are some pics:

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

What is the densifier going to achieve for aesthetics ? Stain it and apply a good acrylic sealer. Or... If you want a plain-uniform look use a tinted acrylic.


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[kd3pc]

Since it is acrylic....I would pick a test splotch and see if a heat gun would help with a scraper, if so - good, if not, I would try some more aggressive stripper, then a brass wire wheel or wire cup - the idea being to remove the acrylic and try to save the base concrete.

IF that fails then start the scarify, descale or grind process.

Has Olympic offered a reason as to why the product failed so badly?

 

[EOT 4 Life]

Thanks for the replies guys. While I do like the color that I applied, I am going to try to bring it back to the original unstained concrete, and then probably use a sealer if I do it myself. I don't know if a stain will hold up outside in my climate. I could attempt removal again using my heat gun and see if it comes off since the paint stripper didn't help at all.
Olympic didn't offer any reason as to why it failed, but after looking at Lowe's and Olympic's own sites, there have been many bad reviews of the product with the same results as me, mostly in the northern climates. It looked fantastic before the winter, but it seems the snow and sub-freezing temperatures we have had all winter made it bubble, lift, and peel off on many decks and patios, but mostly on wood decking. When I made my original complaint to them, I got the impression they were dealing with a ton of the same complaints as me, as the process seemed routine for them and they offered to pay for the removal of it and a refund of my purchase too. The only thing is my quotes to remove it are expensive.
It seems that Rescue It, Deck Restore, and Deckover are very similar and all have gotten many horrible reviews as well. I think those products will work better in the south as cold and snow destroy them.
Here is a typical look at what happens to it:

 

[EOT 4 Life]

Hi, after a few days of hand grinding with a 7" Diamabrush hand tool, a follow up with a diamond cup, and a pressure washing to get all the little crevices, this is where I am at currently. I actually wore the Diamabrush all the way down until there was no material left on the blades.
I am satisfied with the removal of the coating, but now I want to seal it and keep it looking like the bare concrete. At this point, would a densifier and sealer be in order, and if so, what would be the recommended product?
Thanks for your time.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

If you want a sheen(gloss, satin or matte), an acrylic sealer is a good choice. Our HD6600-MMA would be great for this application, two roller coats. It will break down naturally over time and will not lift/peel. http://www.legacyindustrial.net/products/concrete-sealers/hd6600-mma-concrete-sealer.html

If you want protection from within, a waterpoofer would do ok but no benefit to the finish. http://www.legacyindustrial.net/products/concrete-sealers/legacyblock.html

There is no real benefit to a densifier/topical sealer combo as the topical sealer is the wear surface, not the concrete.

Hope this helps.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

Thank you very much for the quick reply sir. I forgot to ask one question. If I went with the acrylic sealer, would it make the area slippery when wet?
Also, how many gallons for my 300 square feet are required?
Thanks,
Vinny.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

It could. We have Hdgrip-Soft Skid to assist with that.
Mix directly into the last coat.

One gallon per coat should do it, two total.

 

[12ozd]

WOW !
Nice job, that looks pretty labor intensive.
Prep is the key, you should expect excellent results !!
Post the after pics.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

WOW !
Nice job, that looks pretty labor intensive.
Prep is the key, you should expect excellent results !!
Post the after pics.

Thank you, just about every muscle in my body is sore from doing this project. After a few minutes using the Diamabrush, I got the hang of it and often just used one hand, but it did take some muscle to get the tough areas. I went through 6 Ridgid shop-vac bags with the dust created, all of which ripped. I hope the finished product looks good and is durable against the snow and ice.

 

[jose's garage]

congrats on your retirement. welcome to the club.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

congrats on your retirement. welcome to the club.

Thanks.

 

[mnavillus]

I liked the way you utilized the forum for these repairs...very smart!

Scotty gave you some good advice and it appears your execution was spot on! maybe a few sore muscles but great job!

 

[James-W]

I was just sitting at my computer wondering if a sandblaster would have worked just as well, or better.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

Thanks guys......I just placed my order for 2 gallons of HD6600-MMA gloss.
I will post some pics when it is done.
Thanks again for all the help and kind words.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

Hi fellas, I got around to putting down the 1st coat of sealant this morning. I had to be sure the slab was dry for a few days and that the wind wasn't going to be too bad because of the whirly birds and pollen coming off of the trees. I also wanted the humidity to be down as well, so today seemed like a good day to do it. The 306 square feet slab drank up about 1-1/4 gallons, and I believe the 3/4 of a gallon I have left should be fine for the 2nd coat. What I must say is this is some strong smelling stuff, and I am glad I was outdoors with it. It seems to be a high quality product, and I hope the 2nd coat later on gives me a good long lasting layer of protection. I think Scotty was right on point in recommending this sealer to achieve what I wanted as far as keeping with the look of the original concrete.
Here are some pics of the now dry 1st coat:

 

[EOT 4 Life]

I just completed the 2nd coat which went on a bit easier and covered a little better as well. Luckily, the 2 gallons just made it and I used every drop.

 

[12ozd]

That looks great! Should last a long time.
Be proud of that job!

 

[EOT 4 Life]

That looks great! Should last a long time.
Be proud of that job!

Thanks, it was a pain to get that old coating off in it's entirety, but it seems to have worked out for now and was a bit of a labor intensive project. Time will tell if it will hold up because the last few winters have been rough here, and that is what seems to have taken it's toll on the last coating. I am curious to see how long that nice sheen will hold up and how often I will have to re-seal it, because at almost $90 a gallon it is not cheap!

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Nice job!! Looks like polished concrete.


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[EOT 4 Life]

Thanks Scotty. I especially like how it looks where the aggregate shows.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

Ok, I figured I would post some final pictures now that it's good and dry and since I was able to put the accents back into place. Once again, a thank you to all for the advice and help.
Now I have to figure out what to do with the almost new Makita 7" grinder, Diamabrush shroud, and diamond cup that I purchased for this project. I don't have enough posts to place them on the classifieds here. I guess the only thing I will keep is the Ridgid shop-vac.

 

[Colin Len]

Wow, this turned out great! After seeing this I'm really thinking this might be the way to go for my patio.

When I was asking the local tool rental place they said the grinders they rent usually leave too rough of a surface, but yours looks fine. Did you in fact use 40 and 80 grit? Do you know how much of the concrete surface you removed, or perhaps you only removed enough to get the top coating off?

As for the sealer, did you end up using any sort of grit or traction additive? How is it when wet? Perhaps the raw concrete prior to sealer was rough enough where it's not slippery like a true polished concrete?

Any suggestions/advice is greatly appreciated

 

[EOT 4 Life]

Wow, this turned out great! After seeing this I'm really thinking this might be the way to go for my patio.

When I was asking the local tool rental place they said the grinders they rent usually leave too rough of a surface, but yours looks fine. Did you in fact use 40 and 80 grit? Do you know how much of the concrete surface you removed, or perhaps you only removed enough to get the top coating off?

As for the sealer, did you end up using any sort of grit or traction additive? How is it when wet? Perhaps the raw concrete prior to sealer was rough enough where it's not slippery like a true polished concrete?

Any suggestions/advice is greatly appreciated

Thanks Colin, I used the Diamabrush hand tool which I bought from Home Depot, and they don't offer different grits:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diamabrush-7-in-Concrete-Abrasive-Removal-Hand-Tool-9207001202/203993974
I am unsure of the amount of surface I removed; I had to get that Olympic Rescue It off and in the process I definitely removed some concrete evidenced by all the dust I sucked into that shop vac. I also pressure washed all the little nooks and crevices to get what the Diamabrush could not, and then hit the whole surface lightly with a Ridgid diamond cup wheel.
I didn't use the traction additive that Scotty had told me about, and it does get a little slippery and squeaky when wet, but it is fine for my usage.
Doing it with the hand tool was a lot of work and I think it would be smarter to rent a larger machine for a few hours. What's cool about it is that I did it myself and my neighbor was just over today admiring the job and just last week the UPS delivery guy came with a package and said the floor looks really great. I think Scotty really knows his products and how to match you up to what you are trying to achieve.
Good luck,
Vinny....

 

[Colin Len]

Gotcha, I'll have to look into what grit that thing is. Seems the larger diamabrush wheels are sold in different grits. I asked Scotty about sealer but unfortunately I'm in California where it looks like all the good stuff is illegal

 

[EOT 4 Life]

Hi Scotty, I have a question. My project is still looking good as new but now that we had snow I realize it is extremely slippery which is a good thing as far as removal goes but bad as far as walking on it goes. It's like I'm on skates while shoveling or brooming it off.
While I realize I will have to wait until spring to correct it, do you think I can just add 1 top coat to it with some Soft-Skid in the mix, and if so, would you sell it pre-mixed in the gallon container instead of having to buy much more than I need?
Thanks.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

I answered you on email However, I didn't realize this was the HD6600MMA.
Lightly scuff with a sanding screen and re-apply. This sealer will melt into the previously applied coats. Might only need a gallon.

Good luck.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

Thanks Scotty, and what about the Soft-skid? Would you sell it pre mixed in the HD6600MMA?
Thanks.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

Just a quick update on my project. I added another coat of HD6600MMA a couple of days ago but this time I added the coarse grit Soft-Skid additive because the concrete was slippery when wet. It seems to have worked well and the trick is to keep mixing the Soft-Skid in the container, otherwise it sinks to the bottom quickly. I also threw some on top of the wet sealant as well for extra grip.
Sorry, I can't seem to get the pics to rotate.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

I just put down another refresher coat of Legacy HD6600MMA, and added some polymeric sand to the mix for some better grip in the snow. This is a very durable product and holds up great to the weather and especially to the salt I put down every winter. I am very happy with this sealer, and feel it was a great choice for my situation.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

Just did a couple more coats, a day apart. Pressure washed the area twice prior to coating. 2 gallons were more than enough for both coats.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

Found another good use for the leftover sealer. I rolled it on my patio sets and it looks really good.

 

[yeldogt]

It nice to see the updates ... over time. I have used quite a bit of exposed aggregate concrete in my projects and the sealer makes a big difference.

 

[kngelv]

I’m curious about your pictures. Are these right after you applied the coating or are these after it dried I’m just curious how it looks when it is completely dry. Say like a few days after you apply the coating.

James

 

[EOT 4 Life]

I’m curious about your pictures. Are these right after you applied the coating or are these after it dried I’m just curious how it looks when it is completely dry. Say like a few days after you apply the coating.

James

Sorry just saw this now. It's pretty much after drying a short amount of time.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

It’s been about 3 years since the last coat so I put two light coats on last week. I think it looks pretty good still.

 

[dcg9381]

I use the same sealer on my driveway, sidewalk, and exterior concrete porches. It does require re-application (in full sun) here after about 1.5-2 years. As you mentioned it's also slick as hell in the rain unless you add an agent to it.

But with this stuff down, I never worry about someone's old diesel dumping a 1/2 quart of oil on my drive. It's like coating the drive in plastic.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

I use the same sealer on my driveway, sidewalk, and exterior concrete porches. It does require re-application (in full sun) here after about 1.5-2 years. As you mentioned it's also slick as hell in the rain unless you add an agent to it.

But with this stuff down, I never worry about someone's old diesel dumping a 1/2 quart of oil on my drive. It's like coating the drive in plastic.

Yes, I agree, it's excellent as far as salt resistance goes, and the soft-skid and sand I had put down seems to still be there, although it's covered up by a couple of layers now. It definitely has it's slippery spots when wet, especially during the first few weeks after application. I actually just ordered a "slippery when wet" sign from Amazon that sticks into the ground because some of the delivery guys tend to jog either up from the grass or from the driveway, onto the walkway. One guy actually slipped as he was running and making the turn from the driveway onto the walkway during a snow squall a while back.

 

[EOT 4 Life]

Had the patio professionally grinded today, and put down 2 coats of Legacy HD-6600, with some anti-skid mixed in. Took 2-1/2 gallons for the 300 square foot area.