Running cable, internet, phone wire question.

[haugy]

I've got a nice huge trench in my backyard now with the electrician running wire today. But I wanted to run cable, internet, and phone as well.

Cable, I've got, no problems. But I keep seeing Cat 5e internet line, and Cat6. What is the difference? I can only find the Cat 5e in 200ft spools. Is that good enough for high speed?

And with the phone I assume I can just run standard phone line out?

Other than an alarm feed, anything else you would add? I plan on running a siren feed as well so that if someone sets off the shop there is another siren in the house so I know.

 

[03ranger]

Cat.-6 features more stringent specifications for crosstalk and system noise. The cable standard provides performance of up to 250 MHz and is suitable for 10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX (Fast Ethernet), 1000BASE-T/1000BASE-TX (Gigabit Ethernet) and 10GBASE-T (10-Gigabit Ethernet).

Since this is a new installation I would go with CAT 6, it will save you from replacing the CAT 5 cable down the road in several years.

 

[harryhood]

you can use cat 5e instead of cat 6 and you'll be fine for up to gigabit ethernet.

 

[Cryptic1911]

yeah, go with cat 6 line.. you can get 1000ft rolls for ~$100 from www.deepsurplus.com

edit: oh, and you can also use this same line for phone wire.. just run a seperate line, and just use however many pairs of the wires that you need. Actually, if you had to, you could run 4 seperate phones on 1 cat6 line since it has 8 wires. just twist the ones you don't use

 

[harryhood]

use cat 6 if you have it but it's overkill for a home application and is a waste of money.

 

[Lotek]

Run some pull strings through there for future updates.

 

[haugy]

Yeah I'm going to add another pipe next to the one with cables, and run string through it for future stuff.

What's the overall benefit to Cat 6 over Cat 5e? Speed? Ability run phone as well? Future upgradability (is that even a word?)

 

[Cryptic1911]

cat6 is just better at blocking interference.. cat5e will work fine for gigabit, but when you're buying the wire, its about the same price.. why not just get the 6?

you can use any networking cable for phone, hell you could use speaker wire if you wanted to

 

[ymerej]

Make sure you put some space between your power conduit and the communications conduit, or find some shielded wire (do they make shielded cat 5/6?). Coming into my house the communication conduit has 1ft of dirt between it and the power conduit and everything's ok, but going to the garage the two conduits are next to each other. When it rained I was getting too much noise/ interference/ whatever over the telephone line and it was causing the DSL signal to drop out. I unplugged the telephone line but left the ethernet line connected and it all seems fine.

 

[skamp]

I've got a nice huge trench in my backyard now with the electrician running wire today. But I wanted to run cable, internet, and phone as well.

Cable, I've got, no problems. But I keep seeing Cat 5e internet line, and Cat6. What is the difference? I can only find the Cat 5e in 200ft spools. Is that good enough for high speed?

And with the phone I assume I can just run standard phone line out?

Other than an alarm feed, anything else you would add? I plan on running a siren feed as well so that if someone sets off the shop there is another siren in the house so I know.

Cat 5e is fine for phone or Ethernet (computer cable) up to 1Gb/s. Make sure that your total length, including patch cables, is less than 100 meters between any 2 points. I am sure you will be less than that but wanted to throw it out there.

Steve

 

[rwhite692]

Since the trench is open, lay a few extra conduits while you can. 1" schedule 80 PVC. Then you can worry about what exactly you want to run, later. Don't worry about putting a string in it when you install.

You can easily get the pull string through, afterwards. You just tie a little tuft of rag on the end of the string, put it in one end, connect a shop vac to the other end, the rest is self explanatory...works every time.

 

[haugy]

Make sure you put some space between your power conduit and the communications conduit, or find some shielded wire (do they make shielded cat 5/6?). Coming into my house the communication conduit has 1ft of dirt between it and the power conduit and everything's ok, but going to the garage the two conduits are next to each other. When it rained I was getting too much noise/ interference/ whatever over the telephone line and it was causing the DSL signal to drop out. I unplugged the telephone line but left the ethernet line connected and it all seems fine.

If I use 1" PVC conduit will that not sheild it? If not, then I'll just put some dirt back in, and then lay the communications condiut on top.

Cat 5e is fine for phone or Ethernet (computer cable) up to 1Gb/s. Make sure that your total length, including patch cables, is less than 100 meters between any 2 points. I am sure you will be less than that but wanted to throw it out there.

Steve

Yeah I figure from router to computer will be almost exactly 150ft. TV will be 165ft from source to box.

Since the trench is open, lay a few extra conduits while you can. 1" schedule 80 PVC. Then you can worry about what exactly you want to run, later.

Yeah, thanks. I remember you telling me that earlier so I picked up some extra conduit to lay next to it. And I'll be running 10lb test fishing line through it.

 

[rwhite692]

I'll be running 10lb test fishing line through it.

I would suggest builders twine or electrician's twine...fishing line (especially something like 10 lb test) is surprisingly easy to break, particularly if it picks up a nick or chafe from inside of the tubing.

 

[ponjohn]

Run multiple cat 5 or 6 . This can be used for phone as well. Much better for long distances.

In addition, I would run RG6 for the cable, quad shield if available. I would also run multiple runs.

For string, use samson 1/8 nylon line. This will not break.

 

[Norcal]

Plain old CAT 5 is not designed for wet locations & a underground conduit is a wet location, just by temp changes the conduit will fill w/ water, so use a cable made for it such as CAT 5 gel filled, it's a PITA to work with so be aware.

 

[Vinko]

Just a note: McMaster-Carr has good descriptions of the various differences in cabling in their catalog.

I pulling new cabling through the ceiling at work in a few weeks. There's so much of it up there, and this time we want to do it right, so I'm doing it myself.

 

[Kevin54]

Run multiple cat 5 or 6 . This can be used for phone as well. Much better for long distances.

In addition, I would run RG6 for the cable, quad shield if available. I would also run multiple runs.

For string, use samson 1/8 nylon line. This will not break.

Yep, while you have the trench, run at least two seperate CAT-5 or CAT-6 lines. Phone, internet, intercom back to the house. Better to have some wires unused than not to have any at all.
Quite a few years ago I had CAT-5 ran from the house to the deck we had at our pond and had a set of speakers hooked to an old stereo in the garage. It worked great for years just buried in the ground

 

[jrmylmach1]

This is where I have gotten cable from before. Good quality and low price. Listed here it is less than $90 for a 1000' of cat6.


http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10234

 

[MustangRick]

The cheap CAT5 cable usually has a very thin jacket on it so it will kink easy. If you get very many kinks in that cable, you may not be able to pull another one through in a 1" pipe. The higher quality pulls a little easier, plus I think the plenum cable has a tougher jacket that withstands the elements as well as kinking better. But it is not an outdoor cable, it just has a non PVC jacket and is more expensive. I would go with CAT5e cable over CAT6. If you are looking at cheap cable, I doubt there will be much difference between them except they will bond the CAT6 which is annoying to work with.

 

[haugy]

Yep, while you have the trench, run at least two seperate CAT-5 or CAT-6 lines. Phone, internet, intercom back to the house. Better to have some wires unused than not to have any at all.
Quite a few years ago I had CAT-5 ran from the house to the deck we had at our pond and had a set of speakers hooked to an old stereo in the garage. It worked great for years just buried in the ground

Intercom. BRILLIANT!!! Thanks for the info. With the link jrmylmach1(Thanks!) I'll be able to get pleanty of Cat6 line for two runs.

So I'm going to do Coax, two runs of Cat6, an extra run of conduit with better twine in it. This is great info.

 

[LWW]

Monoprice FTW! I've been a long time customer of there's and they have the best prices, great quality and excellent service.

 

[LWW]

They have great quality and great prices on HDMI cables as well. I've tested their cheapest HDMI 1.3 spec cables and they work fine in full 3D home A/V setups for a fraction of the price the stores want to charge with their 1000% markup on "accessories".

 

[mikester]

I ran RG6, Cat5, twisted alarm wire and phone wire to my garage. I spaced that conduit about 6" from the the conduit for the power. I also put a piece of nylon cord through it just in case.

 

[DavidTK]

Another vote for Monoprice. I buy all of my cables, etc. there and no issues with quality.

As for running Cat5e or 6, might as well run Cat 6 because it isn't much more expensive. Also, I'm not sure if you investigated how you can use Cat cable, but it's VERY versatile. You can run just about any type of audio or video signal over it, such as HDMI, component HD video, etc. It isn't just for running internet.

If you think you might want to do more than just internet, I would run at least 5 Cat cables. 1 for data; 1 for phone; and 3 for HDMI (the HDMI baluns I've seen need 3 cables).

 

[sammm]

Monoprice FTW! I've been a long time customer of there's and they have the best prices, great quality and excellent service.

+1 ... another Monoprice FTW vote!

 

[Stuart in MN]

If you have a security system in the house, this would be the time to tie the garage into it as well.

 

[haugy]

If you have a security system in the house, this would be the time to tie the garage into it as well.

That's the plan, but I don't know what kind of wire/line I need to get.

Here's the plan as it stands:
- 1" conduit with
- 2 RG6 lines
- 2 Cat 6 lines
- Alarm wire when I figure out what it is.
-Seperate 1" conduit with nothing but nylon line in it for future runs

 

[Rosco]

Not sure if it is too late or not, but I ran RG-11 to my garage from the house. gel coated for burial and a lot thicker so it does not suffer signal loss from a long run......

Bought connectors that convert RG-11 to RG-6 splitters. I also ran phone, cat5, and an extra RG-6 all in 1 1/2 inch electrical conduit.

 

[royalton10]

The shop vac trick is very slick.

Dittos on monoprice.com

 

[Crizzle]

+1 on Monoprice. I'm an IT guy and I buy all of my cables, connectors, and adapters from them. Great prices and really quick order fulfillment.

 

[TBM Jeep]

Another thing that you will want to do with the conduit run is to *not* use the pvc 90's. You want to install the rigid steel 90's with the pvc adapters on each end. Depending on how many 90 degree bends you have in the conduit run the rope/string/twine can and WILL cut through a pvc 90, and you would have to dig it up to repair it. Just imagine, you are pulling a rope past a plastic piece of tubing, it will burn through the pvc at the angled sections.

Another piece of advice is to go to Grainger and buy a roll of the metallic "caution electrical wire burried" tape that you would bury approx. 6" below grade IN THE TRENCH you are putting this all in. That way down the road if someone goes to dig in that area they will hit that metallic tape first and see that something electrical is burried in that spot and use extra caution. Also, tie off the metallic tape on each end where it enters the house, and where it enters the garage. Now you can detect where the conduit run is with a metal detector too if needed.

And if you are using the pvc conduit for the power runs out to the garage make sure they are burring it to the required 18" or more below ground. If the power feed is run in all rigid steel conduit i believe it can be run at 12" below grade, and if it is direct burial cable i think it is to be burried at 24" deep. If they got a permit i'm sure the inspector will check the burried depth.

Tim
ibew local 176 electrician

 

[Shadowdog500]

An intercom sounds like a great idea until your wife starts buzzing it for stupid stuff.

I have several wireless phones with intercom that feed from one base station. Just put one in the shop and it works great, and I didn't need to run a line.

Chris

 

[pst496]

I ran 2 cat5's, 2 RG6, in one pipe. that was enough to run my alarm, phone, (phone has an intercom too) highspeed, TV. Trouble free for a couple of years.

One note on moisture, I thought about this and ran the entire 130ft run on an incline so any moisture that did occur would acuminate at the deep end. I also made the up pipe overly large and with access so I could get to any moisture. Its been in the ground for several years and no indication of any wetness

 

[rwhite692]

I have several wireless phones with intercom that feed from one base station. Just put one in the shop and it works great, and I didn't need to run a line.

Same here...had a traditional (wired) intercom in my last shop...and was going to run wire to the house for an intercom....

And then I realized that our wireless phone system (5 handsets, Panasonic, like $125 at Costco) already has that feature...It gives a different ring (two short rings) when receiving a call from any one of the other wireless handsets.

The other bonus is that the wireless phone handset is usually close by, so I don't need to walk over to a traditional wired/wall-mounted intercom, push a button to talk, etc.

Plus, the sound quality beats a traditional intercom squawk-box, any day.

 

[Crooked Beat]

http://www.swhowto.com/

 

[banzaitoyota]

What is the max length of a CAT5/6 run?

 

[PurdueSD]

What is the max length of a CAT5/6 run?

There are lots of variables but general rule is 330 feet max.

 

[Nor*Cal]

I just ran structured wiring throughout my house and out to the detached garage. It is tough to pull if there is existing wiring in there so I ended up running new lines throughout:
2- Cat5e
1- Cat6
1- RG6

Figure you can use some of the wires in the Cat5e or Cat6 for telephone, video, and other applications as they come up.

 

[40standard]

Since the trench is open, lay a few extra conduits while you can. 1" schedule 80 PVC. Then you can worry about what exactly you want to run, later. Don't worry about putting a string in it when you install.

You can easily get the pull string through, afterwards. You just tie a little tuft of rag on the end of the string, put it in one end, connect a shop vac to the other end, the rest is self explanatory...works every time.

some good info here