Semi-complicated water question

[Crusty Nut]

When we bought our place, there was only a submerged water pump 120 feet down the well. Then, the 40 year old pump failed and it snowballed into lots of repair and upgrades. In the last 18 months we did some serious water system upgrades consisting of:

New submerged pump
3000 gallon storage tank
Jet pump
Ozone filter

The water quality went from terrible, to really good and drinkable. Life was good for a while.
Now, the well is failing and sanding in. (steel liner failure)
A new drilled well is about $6000 for low quality water. We just found out Municipal water has been approved for our area. This will be high quality, drinkable water, but will potentially undue all the other upgrades we have done.
I really like the idea of keeping the storage tank for a big safety net, but it seems really in-efficient to have a pressurized water source fill my tank, only to have to re-pressurize it with the jet pump to get it out of the tank and supply the house/shop.

Is there a better solution I'm not thinking of to maintain a 3000 reserve of fresh water without having to pump it twice?

Thanks for your input.

Crusty

 

[admactanium]

Going off of no actual knowledge at all, it seems like you could have a bypass valve when the tank is full. So you'd get the benefit of having a tank full of water for emergencies but not need to double pump all of your water. The main issue I would think would be keeping the storage tank water fresh since it's not constantly exchanging with new water.

 

[BRIANBB]

Hook up the incoming water supply to the tank. Then feed the house from the tank. Constant water pressure from the city and always fresh.

 

[BillK]

CN,
I don't know where you live but barring a pretty big water main break or a nuclear attack, I doubt that the city water will ever let you down. I would sell the tank and put the proceeds towards the cost of hooking up to the city. Then you can get rid of the jet pump which is just something else to fail. I am 62 years old and cannot ever remember losing city water pressure.

 

[Larwyn]

My first thought is, could you use the tank for rain water collection? Most of the tanks sold around here are for that purpose.

 

[Responder]

Take the municipal water, trust me you will not regret it. As mentioned earlier, use the tank that you have as a backup, even half a tank and close it down. Some simple valving to open/close where you want the water to go and you are done. Use the water in the tank every couple of weeks and if there is a water break, you will have all the neighbors calling asking if they could come and borrow your shower!

I haul every drop of water for the last 15 years for household use. We have a supply for outside use but it is not potable. If I could get the municiapal system, I would in a heartbeat. My system would still be the same with the pressure system as the proposed water system out here is low pressure, low flow so I would need a storage tank.

Good luck with your decision

 

[JakeKohl]

I've got a friend with an old well supply and city water. When he bought the house, the well source had been disabled. He replumbed his outdoor hose bibs to the well so he could water his yard without having to pay for the city water.

 

[CNGsaves]

I'd shop around for 2nd opinion on price to re-sleeve your existing well. Seriously doubt it would be $6K to repair your existing well . . . maybe the $6K you mention is for completely new well drilled in another spot.

Sounds like you're in rural area that is just now on fringes of municipal water. Often first thing needed in situations like yours is SEWER services as septic fields leech into the water supply and taint it.

Another issue is PRICE of water from municipality . . . you might be shocked what it's going to cost for same number of gallons.

Finally, I doubt the municipality will let you blend the well water with city water (ie they will require back-flow valve). You may consider using your pump water as "grey water" and only use city water for drinking and cooking. This will require plumbing changes in the house. Good luck!

 

[finn]

Typically municipal systems mandate that existing wells must be capped when service is extended to new areas. The infrastructure is funded by metered water and, as such, the bond obligation could not be met if customers were allowed to cherry pick drinking water only.

 

[Crusty Nut]

To answer some of the questions,
Yes $6000 is for a new well. He is not interested in sleeving the old one for many reasons, And, I agree.

I'm confident we will get the city water. The ground water here *****. I would just abandon the old well completely. I'm not interested in blending it.

This is what I want to do:

Hook up the incoming water supply to the tank. Then feed the house from the tank. Constant water pressure from the city and always fresh.

But I can't wrap my mind around how to utilize the city pressure to supply the house and not overflow the tank. It seems I would need a tank float valve, then jet pump it to the house. Is there something I'm missing?

The other option would be to valve around it, but then you end up with 3000 of stale water that still needs to be pumped when you use it.


As far as the reliability of city water? I live in earthquake country, the local infrastructure is old, and I already own the tank. I guess I like belts and suspenders.

My main question is, how to utilize the city pressure through the tank to supply the house and not overflow the tank. It seems I would need a tank float valve, then jet pump it to the house. Is there something I'm missing?

Thanks for the replies.

 

[iron_worker]

Unless you can find a tank that can be pressurized to whatever the municipal pressure is then no, you can't do it. A 3000gal pressure vessel ain't gonna be cheap either!

Once the city water enters your tank at atmospheric pressure it has lost all it's energy. You need to add energy again (IE a pump) to get it to move throughout your house's plumbing.

Just hook up to city water and forget about it.

IW

 

[Kevin54]

If you are getting sand in your tank, it may be the case that you have to pull your pump up some. You can have a well driller do it, or you and the wife can do it. You need a piece of pipe about 4' long with a tee handle on the top. This screws into the pitless adapter. Once you screw it in, you pull it up and this pulls the pitless adapter out of it's saddle. Once you have it up, start pulling while someone walks it out to the yard. Make sure you eat your Wheaties that morning though. Although 120' isn't very much on a horizontal plane, 120' pulling it up in a vertical plane gets a little heavy.

Once you have it out, take some string and a heavy washer or plumb bob and drop down into the well to see what your water level is. If you have 60'-70' of water in the well, cut about 10' off of your plastic water line. This will keep the pump from setting on bottom. You can also get a sand foot for the pump if it does not have one to keep sand from getting in the line.

If your well water is good, I would refrain from hooking up to city water, or hold off until they force you to do it. If you do hook up to city water, do not let them disconnect you from your well. One reason is that most cities charge for the water, and along with that the sewage bill also comes. So the more water you use, the higher the water and sewage bill is. Anytime you want to water your lawn, wash your car, you are still billed water and sewage both. Some people have been able to have a separate meter put on for the outside spigots so the sewage rates don't go up, but a lot of municipalities balk at doing it because it cuts into their profits.

Another thing with city water, you will have chlorine, fluoride, and the water may be hard with calcium. Just something to think about.

 

[kamesama980]

When I was shopping for a house I asked the city about well vs municipal (rather old house in town grandfathered in on the well) and they said other than what the mortgage company said, it didn't matter which as long as it's not both in the house. The well could still be used outdoors (IE hose bib) with city water inside. So check, regulations vary.

Though from the sounds of it, this might be a moot point for you.

 

[Crusty Nut]

@ Kevin
We have already raised the pump, and put ***** hose on the pump intake. That is just a band aid repair anyway. The sand is coming in and unless it gets pumped to the tank, just accumulates in the casing.
Thank you all for the input.

 

[PugetDude]

Hook onto municipal water, run a line out to the 3000 gallon tank and use a toilet float valve to keep it full. Hook up a hose bib to the tank and you can use it as necessary to keep the tank fresh.. If municipal water ever fails due to a natural disaster or zombie apocalypse, all you'd have to do is turn off the municipal water valve to prevent backflow and then run a hose from the hose bib on the tank to a hose bib on the house. Open 'em up , you'd have emergency water at the house, albeit at static head pressure, not municipal line pressure. Would get you through an emergency, at least you could cook, bathe and flush toilets.

 

[Sureshot]

I would get rid of the tank. The water will be stale or contaminated if not rolled over or aerated constantly. Maybe tie the tank to catch rainwater then use it to water the lawn etc and if needed you could boil it for cooking. All you would need to hook it to the house is a wash machine hose tied from the sprinkler system to an external hose bib. The pressure can be applied from anywhere in the system.

If you want a float you can get them from ag places. They are common for livestock waterer's etc or a supplier dealing with rural systems.

 

[Steroblan]

So if the worst happens and an earthquake shuts down the municipal water supply. You won't even want a hose running from the tank let alone a pump since the water in the tank is now for survival mode (drinking and cooking so no chance of leaks or misuse). It can be purified for such uses as drinking/cooking but will be fine for spit baths. I wouldn't go to the trouble to set up an extra pump. Such luxuries are not a must in times of crisis. You may also lose power if you lose municipal water so a backup power supply will need to be considered for a pump anyway.

 

[kbs2244]

The key to this is if the tank can take the stress of the city water pressure.

If not, vent it to air, fill it with a water level sensor valve, and use your jet pump to provide water pressure to the house.

If it will take the city water pressure you just need vent it as you fill it the first time from the street and then it will just sit between the street and you. It will fill as you use.

Either way you have the 3000 gal to use in case of a city fail.
(If you are at the end of the pipe they do happen.)

 

[plumbstupid]

What state are you in?

Unless the elevation of your home is at the same hieght or near the hieght of the local water tower you will not need the tank or the jet pump. Run the city water straight to the house and keep the well with crappy water for watering plants. Here you can have a well and city water, but the 2 cannot be connected.

 

[Scott r c]

If there is inspections involved I doubt they will let you pipe to the tank without a double check backflow preventor. If the main ever loses pressure it would siphon your tank dry.

 

[Pat Brady]

My first thought is, could you use the tank for rain water collection? Most of the tanks sold around here are for that purpose.

This is what I was wondering. Then he could use that water for gardens, washing the cars, etc. But I would do away with the well and the pump. They can sometimes be unreliable.

 

[shanker]

as a mud engineer who runs drilling muds for oil/gas wells....I would pull the pump/line, go back in the well w/ an open ended line to bottom, and pump at high pressure a high viscosity sweep made w/ either Xanthan gum, or PHPA (Partially Hydrolyzed poly acrylamide) (both of these chemicals are found in all sorts of foods we eat) to clean out the wellbore and get the sand out...this is NOT going to STOP new sand from entering into the wellbore, but it'll sweep out what is already in there.

The trick being is that you don't want the PHPA to form a filter cake between the wellbore and the water zone, as you WANT the water to migrate into the wellbore. Sand Liners are commonly used to fix this in wells for ranches.


We've done this with water wells on our ranch for livestock with success...our wells are in the 700-1100' foot depth though...not sure how deep yours is. The only reason why we tried this, is because it's really easy to throw a couple of sacks of Xanthan gum, or a few pails of PHPA in the back of my truck before leaving the rig to go on days off...so it didn't cost me anything but time. (We already had a pump)