Smoke Detector on a timer or switch

[trythis]

Hey,
I have this problem with smoke detectors and welding areas. For obvious reasons I dont want one in use where I am welding. I have a fume extractor/filter but it cant catch everything and when I get a plasma cutter, the ionization will set them off and no way to **** all those fumes.

I would like one at night when I am sleeping on the other side of the wall from my shop.

Anyone ever heard of a detector that works part time? I would like one that works with my security system as well.

Heat detectors will only tell me that the shop side of the building is burning. This is fine for saving my **** because we have a 2 hour fire wall, but I would also like a chance to save the building and a wee bit of smolder would be easy enough to extinguish.

I would set it on a timer to work outside of my normal daytime hours or if the lights are off in the space.

 

[mrb]

you're talking about an optional smoke detector you have in your garage, not the required one in the bedroom right?

 

[cowboyjosh]

Never heard of part time smoke alarms, no where in any code book are "part time" smokes allowed that I know of. In a garage or shop heat detectors are the suggested way to go, if you must go with smokes, you could always cover them with the dust cap that comes with the detector when your welding.

smokes connected to a UL listed alarm panel and monitored by a UL certified monitoring center require the smokes and heats to be active at all times, if you attempt to disconnect a functional smoke the alarm panel will send a fault to the monitoring center; so no a smoke connected to a alarm would not be the solution for "part time" protection. In the event something happens, especially to a monitored system if a fire should start and you disabled the sensor in the shop and the shop could have been saved by a functional monitored alarm, but is a total loss, your insurance company will wear you out if your the one who disabled the security system devices.

 

[trythis]

The idea is to wake my *** up if there is smoke in the shop at night when I am not in there. I was thinking it would need to be connected to my house detectors, both alarm system and regular, but a smoke would just go off all day, causing my sirens to wear out. But, I could leave regular heat detectors on 24/7 connected to my alarm system and regular smoke network.

AND....

In addition to that, I could hook a regular 2 wire smoke detector to a separate alarm zone that operates when I set the alarm for the shop space. Smoke would activate the alarm siren, wake me and if I cant solve the problem the fire alarms portion or the regular high voltage network will go off a little later. At that point, it's too late to save the building because the structure is burning, but I would be safe even if I forgot to turn on the security system for the night and the insurance people wouldn't have any trouble because an optional heat detection system was still functional.

The shop has it's own control pads and can be activated separately from the house alarm. Both can be activated from either house or shop. My shop does not have a door that connects it to the house. I have to go outside and back inside to get into it even though it shares the same four outer walls. There is a 2 hour fire wall between them. I like having the ability to secure one when I am in the other since I can't possibly know whats happening on the other side of that wall. It may as well be a couple of buildings over. (this is not a house, it is a legally converted garage building)

This way it would always be heat detector safe, but not constantly going off from welding smoke.

you're talking about an optional smoke detector you have in your garage, not the required one in the bedroom right?

NO, I am not going to disable the smoke detectors in my house or bedrooms! Not saying people wouldn't. I know, you're just checking


Covering the little particle detectors during the day is not gonna happen, the ceiling is 16 feet up.

 

[dankeenan]

Wire it in opposite of your light switch. When the lights are on the power is cut to the detector. Turn lights off, detector gets power.

 

[Teken]

Your best bet is to purchase the wireless smoke detectors from First Alert, Kidd. I had the same concerns as you so I decided to go this route for added security and layering.

The garage heat sensor / co is hard wired to all the interior smoke detectors. But, like you I don't want just a alarm indicating my house is burning down to the ground on the other side!

So, I purchased eight of these wireless units which are all linked via RF so if one goes they all go.

Gives you extra protection along side of the heat sensor. Having said that these devices are all reactionary in nature.

Best practices is always ensure the area is fire rated. I spent extra cash on 5/8" fire rated dry wall for all the walls. All of the insulation is Roxul fire rated also from top to bottom and along the sides. The wall leading to the house side was already done with X rated drywall. But, I added another 5/8" on top of that to ensure that 2 hour burn time was actually going to be there if I needed it!

I also purchased but have not installed four independent dry chem fire cylinders to be installed above the ceiling to be equally spaced to cover the entire garage if the unspeakable should ever happen.

As others have said get a extra sensor as I suggested above and cover it up with the hat it came with.

 

[christopizza]

I echo the suggestion to cover up the smoke dectector when doing tasks that create dust or other airborne particulates.

I went through a few smoke detectors in my shop before I realized the dust and crud had contaiminated them.

Christo

 

[larry_g]

Have you talked with your alarm system company? They may have a solution to your problem. Have you played with sensor positions? Having the SD lower on the wall that is adjacent to your house may allow you to have personal safety for the house and elieviate nuisance alarms.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[mrb]

i do not recommend this, and i am not providing instructions to or suggesting one defeat, circumvent, or otherwise render inoperable any life safety system or device including but not limited to smoke detectors, heat detectors, or any fire alarm or warning system or component thereof.

now thats out of the way, here's what I would do:

I would not cover the detector -those are easily forgotten in place. I would not want an on/off switch either. I would have a detector hooked to my alarm and have a circuit in place where I have a button that when pressed disables the detector for a fixed period of time (say 15 min). This way the detector is auto resetting and you dont have to remember to turn it back on or risk accidentally turn it off.

Also have some ventillation to evacuate smoke and get in the habit of doing a 'fire watch' (hanging around for 30-45 min) after welding or doing anything that throws sparks.

 

[cowboyjosh]

@mrb great points! I don't think there is any product that you can push a button to take a life safety device offline for a set number of minutes. Some mom and pop alarm shops may have a solution but the national companies won't likely help out or otherwise discuss or to hear you out about this, it's against allot of companies policies for liability reasons. The only solution that I know of is to call the alarm company and have them take the system offline for awhile that way if you set off a smoke they won't dispatch th FD while the alarm is on "test".

 

[travisd]

Maybe use a standard timer (like for a heat lamp or whirlpool tub) to control a 120v relay? If you wire the detector thru the "NC" contacts (that are closed when the coil is *not* energized), then activating the timer (energize the relay coil) would open the circuit feeding the detector. For extra points, have the timer light a big red indicator lamp when the detector circuit is disabled.

 

[fireguy]

Smoke detectors are wired to an alarm panel, or in the case of wireless, radio to the panel

Smoke alarms, sometimes called single station alarms, are not wired to a panel. Smoke alarms may or may not be interconnected to each other, may be 9V, 110V or a combination of 110V with 9V back up.

So, you are asking if you can wire smoke detctors to a burg panel? Residential burg panels may or may not accept a smoke detector.

 

[trythis]

So back to this,
I love the idea of a big red button that turns the 120V smoke alarm off with a timer where I can change the delay. I think 30 minutes or an hour would be good but better yet would be a rotating adjustable timer that I could set for up to a couple of hours. A big fun RED light would be great too. I could but a small flasher by the doors so I couldnt leave without re-engaging in case I leave before the timer kicks back on.

Bypassing a detector on my alarm system would set alarm faults every time, at least I think.

I do not have an alarm company, I am installing my own system an have nobody to get permission from.

I might be able to set a separate zone for just that space that sets off an alarm state that tells me that there is a fire. If I get an alarm company they wouldn't know the difference, if I set it to send a fire alert, how it is set up. I would be using Nextalarm or some company that doesnt do installations. This setup could be part of my "away" state and do what I need it to do. Remember, this is not an area that is required to have an alarm or detector, I am not required to have an alarm system at all so having a fire marshal fuss is irrelevant.

I cant possibly use an all the time smoke detector loop in this space, I make fire and smoke all the time on purpose.

 

[kbs2244]

I like the wiring them to the same switch as the lights.
A 2 circuit switch (without a “off” in the middle if you could find one) would do it.
Flip one way lights on and alarms off.
Flip the other way and alarms on and lights off.

 

[trythis]

Thats good unless I leave the lights on, which has been known to happen...from time to time...

 

[nehog]

I like the wiring them to the same switch as the lights.
A 2 circuit switch (without a “off” in the middle if you could find one) would do it.
Flip one way lights on and alarms off.
Flip the other way and alarms on and lights off.

Just as a point of interest (I don't necessarily recommend this) a standard three way switch does exactly what you describe... Wire the common to hot, one side to the lights, the other to the alarm system.