Spin Flaring tools

[Firebrick43]

Does anyone here use spin flaring tools?

I went to a new customer yesterday and was hooking up gas. The HVAC guy was there both to commission the furnace and was still doing the install on the AC.

He was using tool I hadn't seen before to do the flaring on the copper line set that sort of surprised me, spin flare on his cordless drill.

I have done a lot of flaring in my life, miles of steel hydraulic hard line and lots of soft copper gas line and sort of a snob about it. I always use eccentric flaring tools, either imperial or personally own ridgid 377 and 458 flaring tools. Of course the spin flares wouldn't work on steel tubing.

It seems almost cheating how fast and they looked halfway decent flares, better than a lot of cheaper flaring tools that just smash a cone into the end of a tube.

Any one that has used them for any length of time comment on how successful the flares perform over time?

 

[drmarkr]

Interesting....a quick look at Amazon reveals you can pay $80-120 for the "brand" Spin tool.....or $20 for a knockoff. Which, most likely were both/all made in the same place.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093CHLZ85?tag=atomicindus08-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G8L7757K?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Firebrick43]

Interesting....a quick look at Amazon reveals you can pay $80-120 for the "brand" Spin tool.....or $20 for a knockoff. Which, most likely were both/all made in the same place.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093CHLZ85?tag=atomicindus08-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G8L7757K?tag=atomicindus08-20

Blowing up the pictures the Spin ones do look a little different(little teats on the ends of the cheap ones) and maybe smoother? But would that matter?

Still cheaper than a quality eccentric flaring tool and I suppose the main reason they are using them is speed.

I wonder if wear is an issue. Copper doesn't typically affect carbon steel but spinning it at those speeds and heat levels has to have some effect over time?

The idea of spin forming copper is not so foreign to me, I mean copper pans a bowls(aluminum as well) have been made that way for a long time and I have Tee extractors and used Tee Drills but those joints are brazed and don't seal on a taper.

The coworker I was will was impressed, and said he was going to purchase a set to put on the boom truck.

 

[neophyte]

I find it doubtful this tool doesn’t work harden the copper tubing at least somewhat.
Tools like T-drills, come in multiple types, and models, some of which are designed to be power driven with a drill.
I doubt the heat treat on the steel would be affected, much if any.
The tool isn’t being used for that long a time.
I presume you could put a drop of oil on to alleviate any heat issues.

 

[drmarkr]

I find it doubtful this tool doesn’t work harden the copper tubing at least somewhat.
Tools like T-drills, come in multiple types, and models, some of which are designed to be power driven with a drill.
I doubt the heat treat on the steel would be affected, much if any.
The tool isn’t being used for that long a time.
I presume you could put a drop of oil on to alleviate any heat issues.

in the vids of them using the tool, it looked like some fluid was on the "bit"....oil? H2O??

 

[manwithtools]

Here's the one I use for HVAC lines. It makes an amazing flare: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093X5Z4SP?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Dumber than lumber]

Here's the one I use for HVAC lines. It makes an amazing flare: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093X5Z4SP?tag=atomicindus08-20

At the price shown just now it must make an AMAZING flare. Does it also cook your breakfast?

 

[manwithtools]

At the price shown just now it must make an AMAZING flare. Does it also cook your breakfast?

No breakfast, but it makes a leak free flare. The value of that when installing a mini-split is less than debatable.

Also, the funds it saved me on three mini-split installs more than paid for the HVAC technicians fees.

 

[willf650]

My company has an industrial HVAC side, think big chillers. I can ask the guys about it and see if they have them.

Our lead guy is a tool aficionado that works out of a small car as part of his role is field support for other guys. He has a Harbor Freight roll cart in the shop for his tools that the shop guy drops via stake body when he‘s actively working.

I was there looking at his stuff and he pulled out a set of swaging tools to show me that are like that flaring tool posted. They are driven via impact driver and he said they were great but brazing a swaged joint is probably more forgiving than flaring that way. He did specifically say you had to use a drop of refrigerant oil with them as he was pissed one of them got burnt up when he let someone use it.

 

[RoninB4]

I wonder if wear is an issue. Copper doesn't typically affect carbon steel but spinning it at those speeds and heat levels has to have some effect over time?

-For fully hardened tool steel you have to go above 400°F to affect the hardness, that's the beginning of the chemical reaction for the tempering range. Doubtful the tool will reach anywhere near that temperature, the number of heat cycles should have no effect. For example; How many heat cycles have your twist drills been through?

For tools like this (speculating) that are only case hardened the "case" is only a shallow, gradient skin of hardness. If/when the skin gets wiped off it's only soft steel underneath. When would this occur? Hard to say as it depends upon the grade of steel used and the case hardening process itself. I have seen case hardened tooling that seems to wear faster than fully hardened/tempered tool steel. The more expensive set in the link by @drmarkr might/might not be hardened tool steel, hard to say for that price and the "new gadget" syndrome. The $20 set I would strongly doubt is even case hardened. Those might have a cheap coating that will readily wear away to expose the inferior steel used. Same thing (I suspect) with the inexpensive TiN coated twist drills. Likely a disposable tool aimed at one-time use.

 

[Hohn]

You aren’t meaningfully annealing the copper tube at those warmer temps, but you are reducing the plastic deformation and thus, the spin-formed flares should be a bit softer and less likely to crack, I’d think.

Neat tool but I’m only interested in 37 degree flares and I don’t think they do anything but 45 degree SAE flares.

 

[Hohn]

I find it doubtful this tool doesn’t work harden the copper tubing at least somewhat.
Tools like T-drills, come in multiple types, and models, some of which are designed to be power driven with a drill.
I doubt the heat treat on the steel would be affected, much if any.
The tool isn’t being used for that long a time.
I presume you could put a drop of oil on to alleviate any heat issues.

Of course it work hardens the copper, but it would do it to a lesser degree than a slower flaring process that runs cooler.

 

[Beerhippie]

Here's the one I use for HVAC lines. It makes an amazing flare: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093X5Z4SP?tag=atomicindus08-20

At the price shown just now it must make an AMAZING flare. Does it also cook your breakfast?

Most importantly, does it automatically slip the flare nut on before flaring?

Does it have dies for double- and bubble-flares?

 

[danielbuck]

I find it doubtful this tool doesn’t work harden the copper tubing at least somewhat.
Tools like T-drills, come in multiple types, and models, some of which are designed to be power driven with a drill.
I doubt the heat treat on the steel would be affected, much if any.
The tool isn’t being used for that long a time.
I presume you could put a drop of oil on to alleviate any heat issues.

If that's a concern, annealing copper is simple to do with a propane torch. no need to quench it, just let it air cool.

I say this as someone who has worked with copper art pieces, not plumbing. So take that for what you will.

 

[PWC Repair]

I know a couple HVAC guys that have been using them for years now. They're probably lost more than they wear out.

 

[senlow]

Most importantly, does it automatically slip the flare nut on before flaring?

That's the question of the day. I'd pay well for that option.

 

[neophyte]

If that's a concern, annealing copper is simple to do with a propane torch. no need to quench it, just let it air cool.

I say this as someone who has worked with copper art pieces, not plumbing. So take that for what you will.

The issue with annealing copper with a torch, is that you would then need to thoroughly clean the copper surface of fire scale from the annealing process.

 

[danielbuck]

The issue with annealing copper with a torch, is that you would then need to thoroughly clean the copper surface of fire scale from the annealing process.

isn't copper pipe hard to begin with? I make stuff out of copper pipe, it's definitely not soft annealed. or at least the stuff I use anyway.

 

[Beerhippie]

I make stuff out of copper pipe, it's definitely not soft annealed

Soft copper tubing is. Hard copper tubing (pipe) is not--but annealing it is a matter of seconds with a torch. Dull red and air-cool does the job.