TTC: Allen Hex Key Shootout

[American Locomotive]

-That's nice to see you looked something up but this isn't mechanically synchronized

-Perhaps so but there's a reason(s) those weren't widespread through metalworking or in use for high volume production. Bondhus wasn't using it either for their single focus production. Why not?

-"No reason" is a rather flat, declarative statement but still fails to explain why it wasn't used.

I was pointing out the technology of polygonal turning has existed for well over 100 years. Doesn't matter if your cutter spindle is synchronized through gears and driveshafts, or it's electronically coupled through a servo drive. The process has existed for over 100 years.

Here's some receipts:

• 1882 machine for turning polygonal wood shapes
• 1891 company using the process
• 1948 "Turret Tooling Book", describing a new attachment for turret lathes that will "will produce on round stock any polygonal shape such as an octagon , hexagon , or square"
• 1976 Patent on a "modern" polygonal turning machine
• Tornomat Automatic Polygonal Turning lathe that dates to at least the 1950s

As to why the process wasn't being used by Bondhus and others: I can't say for sure, but probbably stubbornness, ignorance, and American Exceptionalism/NIH. There were so many processes that were invented or perfected (or both) over sears, and many American companies were completely unaware they existed, or unwilling to budge from their "tried and true" process. That's why even into the late 90s you had American shops with armies of old multi-spindle automatics (or even single spindle Brown & Sharpes) taking 10 seconds to make some trivial screw or stand-off, when over in Europe they had been using rotary transfer machines for 30+ years that could make 2 of those thumb screws per second.

It's the same reason why those Eklind wrenches are still using a crappy looking raw cut/sheared off end when even the 5 dollar Amazon Basic wrenche sets have a finished end.

Eklind is a perfect example of a MiUSA heritage brand that has stopped improving and relies solely on performance and business strategies from 50+ yrs ago

Hard to throw money and support behind a company that's basically given up

I agree. They're basically only coasting on being MiUSA. They unfortunately chose to compete with the low-end of the market, and they will simply never be able to compete with the import tools price-wise and offer the same quality. There will always be people willing to pay more for high quality/the best, and there will always be people who just want something that's cheap and works. There are few people who will want to pay more money for something that is worse.

That's why companies like Bondhus, Wera and PB Swiss are sitting comfortably up-market. But Eklind is in this no-where land where their wrenches are cheaper than Bondhus, more expensive than the import brand, but not as good as either.

 

[liliysdad]

Reaching a point of “good enough”’is hardly lazy. Eklind makes a solid product that works just fine for the overwhelming majority of users…many of whom will and do shop based on country of origin.

I work on cars and various related things. I don’t need color coded, vinyl wrapped, gold plated hex keys. I need an affordable, solid set of ball end keys and I prefer they are made in the US. Eklind has filled that need for me for a long time, and for about $10 a set, I don’t see that changing any time soon.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Bondhus is an “Industrial” quality tool producer, in the older sense of the word.
The goal is to make durable tools for industrial use, that get the job done, repeatedly, whole not costing premium prices in the high end like Snap-On.
Martin tools such as wrenches, Vaughan hammers, Proto to a certain extent, Wright, formerly Bonney, etc., are this type of tool manufacturer.
Back in the day Allen probably was as well.
Manufacturers like this may occasionally try to make nicer models of items, but their main business is supplying a tool that might have rough edges, but which is durable enough to do the job 12 hours s day, till the customer has forgotten which industrial store they bought the tool from.

I mean so is Eklind. They are literally in the same industrial settings as Bondhus and are used precisely the same way by the same people as Bondhus keys. I’m not quite sure I follow with your comment, am I misunderstanding something perhaps?

Reaching a point of “good enough”’is hardly lazy. Eklind makes a solid product that works just fine for the overwhelming majority of users…many of whom will and do shop based on country of origin.

I work on cars and various related things. I don’t need color coded, vinyl wrapped, gold plated hex keys. I need an affordable, solid set of ball end keys and I prefer they are made in the US. Eklind has filled that need for me for a long time, and for about $10 a set, I don’t see that changing any time soon.

I don’t know what more people want from Eklind. It’s an American-made affordable tool that does a job. I’m here at work right now using both brands and I cannot figure out what Bondhus does that makes them so much better than the Eklind keys. They look, feel, and operate exactly the same yet Bondhus is amazing and Eklind is **** because TTC ran some tests? They are both good keys and I like using both with Bondhus having an edge due to a wider range of key options.

 

[T45]

Reaching a point of “good enough”’is hardly lazy. Eklind makes a solid product that works just fine for the overwhelming majority of users…many of whom will and do shop based on country of origin.

SK was lazy and went out of business. CMAN was lazy, and went out of business (along with sears, also lazy also out of business). Story as old as time...

 

[moemc]

The TTC is using hex keys to tear this community apart and create divide to weaken us. What are their real intentions after they have turned us against one another?

 

[moemc]

I’m here at work right now using both brands and I cannot figure out what Bondhus does that makes them so much better than the Eklind keys. They look, feel, and operate exactly the same yet Bondhus is amazing and Eklind is **** because TTC ran some tests? They are both good keys and I like using both with Bondhus having an edge due to a wider range of key options.

Do you have a metric set of the Eklind and a good caliper? I have this like 15+ year old uncoated Bondhus 5mm hex key on my assembly table. Its loose, whatever set its from is long gone, I just used that 5mm every day for years and thus its stuck around this particular assembly workstation. Since it is uncoated, I would like to compare the hex size across all 6 flats to an uncoated Eklind 5mm.

 

[neophyte]

I mean so is Eklind. They are literally in the same industrial settings as Bondhus and are used precisely the same way by the same people as Bondhus keys. I’m not quite sure I follow with your comment, am I misunderstanding something perhaps?

I don’t know what more people want from Eklind. It’s an American-made affordable tool that does a job. I’m here at work right now using both brands and I cannot figure out what Bondhus does that makes them so much better than the Eklind keys. They look, feel, and operate exactly the same yet Bondhus is amazing and Eklind is **** because TTC ran some tests? They are both good keys and I like using both with Bondhus having an edge due to a wider range of key options.

My point was that the slightly out of straight keys, and rough edges, are typical with “industrial products” because in general, this is usually mostly aesthetic, and trying yo make the items “look perfect” can add enough extra cost, that it is just not worth it for tools made for work in industrial settings, and particularly something like hex keys, which industrial users may purchase by the box in sizes that are used, and just hand out replacements if a key gets lost or broken.
Eklind is presumably purchased for the same reason, just the durability and cam out in the TTC tests seem to show that Bondhus might be more durable and less likely to cam out in use, potentially saving set screws that might get damaged, and requiring less replacement keys over time, or trips for replacement keys to a tool room.
The major reason Bondhus was liked in the tests, is because the Bondhus keys cost somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 what the two other really high performing keys cost, and had at worst, just slightly lower performance.
It should also be mentioned that the multicolor Bondhus hex key sets are around twice as expensive as the basic black Bondhus keys, which means Bondhus key sets can be purchased for considerably less than the cost of the closest performing hex keys.
I presume given what regular hex keys cost, the average industrial company might order Bondhus, and if the distributor is out, just say “OK, then just send me Eklind”.
For the regular tool user buying hex key sets, the cost of buying a replacement key to replace a broken one in a set, it’s worth buying the more durable key, since shipping will cost more than the single hex key.

 

[neophyte]

SK was lazy and went out of business. CMAN was lazy, and went out of business (along with sears, also lazy also out of business). Story as old as time...

The original SK was owned by Facom.
The owner of Facom wanted to sell the tool group, and the Managers at SK bought SK from the French owner, who then sold Facom to Stanley Tools, which I suspect meant that the management at SK knew Stanley might be the potential buyer, and the SK facilities would be shuttered if Stanley bought the tool group, since Stanley already had competing US product lines at similar prices.
The whole thing happened around the time Amazon started selling tools though, and Amazon was buying tools in bulk, including SK, and minimally marking the tool prices up, which resulted in Amazon selling SK product for a lower cost than SK’s dealer network were paying to buy the tools in smaller quantities thru official distribution channels.
SK’s dealers then hot pissed off, and started dropping SK as a tool brand, presumably at the same time the SK management owners needed money to pay off the money borrowed to buy SK.
SK’s management then wound up with money issues, resulting in the company not paying the heath care payments for employees health care, (allegedly without telling the employees), which basically resulted in lawsuits and bankruptcy, as well as SK rejected tools being salvaged from dumpsters, and sold as “new” SK product, partially destroying the brand reputation.
Ideal bought the remnants of SK out of the bankruptcy sale, and pumped a bunch of money in to try to build a tool group, including buying Western Forge.
This all happened during periods of financial and economic uncertainty, and the Ideal tool group proved not to be profitable enough for Ideal, so Ideal sold it off.

Craftsman died because of Sears, and the owner of Sears.
Stanley simply bought the brand, and then tried to set up a production facility to make the Craftsman tools in the USA affordably.
Stanley decided after $90+ million being spent, that the project wasn’t going well, and to cut their losses.
Stanley, for all the complaints, can actually manufacture high quality tools at an affordable price, but they also know when to step back and reconsider when stuff doesn’t work out.

 

[KnurledNut]

@RoninB4
Some of the my old Eklind was 8650 chrome nickel alloy steel.
Did that change during your tenure or just the heat treatment?

Any idea which standards Eklind conformed to for the L-keys?
I am assuming ANSI B18.3 and US FED Spec. GGG-K-275D?

As always, your input and experience is valuable here!
Don't let the know-it-alls stifle your interest in discussion!

 

[LOW1]

The Eklinds that I have bought have been on sale and get the job done. Good enough for who they are for. Why spend more?

 

[RoninB4]

Some of the my old Eklind was 8650 chrome nickel alloy steel.

-That's what I recall as the steel Eklind used at the time but that also relies on my somewhat fuzzy memory from the mid 90's. I hope I'm correct since I've cited it several times but I could be wrong.

Did that change during your tenure or just the heat treatment?

-The only time the steel changed during my tenure was when the competitor tried to corner the available market (thus crippling our production) and we had to buy on the spot market from various sources. I don't know what was purchased but it was clear that some of the batches (multiple sources) were of dubious lineage and it was a touchy subject around the company for a while. I decided not to ask too many questions. Coils of hex stock were only available at a few domestic sources, I suspect we bought a few batches from overseas suppliers that were decidedly an inferior type of steel and very doubtful it was 8650. It was all a power play between the VP's (theirs and ours) that had a personal grudge against each other. Rather unprofessional IMO but all too common in manufacturing.

-The heat treatment variance was a separate, and unrelated incident. Lowering the hardness was due to a phone call from a lawyer representing some goof that claimed he'd broken off a 5/16 "L" key with his bare hands and got a 10mm gash in his arm that required stitches. The lawyer was testing the waters for a liability lawsuit and the VP called two of us in during the phone call to listen in. The VP requested the wrench and stated that there would be physical evidence if it wasn't just bare handed. After the call the VP asked both of us (die makers) whether it was possible to break off the wrench as the lawyer described. We both speculated that a cheater pipe would be required for this. After the meeting I set up a 5/16 wrench in a vise and put my svelte 170lbs. atop it, bouncing a few times for good measure. We called the VP out to the shop to witness the results just....because. In a later conference with Howard Eklind and the rest of the hierarchy it was decided to just lower the Rc by 2 points.....just....because. My limited understanding is that Eklind is doing heat treating in the factory now, wasn't back then, but I have no factual info on steel flavors or heat treating numbers now.

Any idea which standards Eklind conformed to for the L-keys?
I am assuming ANSI B18.3 and US FED Spec. GGG-K-275D?

-Unfortunately I have no idea if they conformed to any standards but their own back then. The drawings and tolerances were already set by the time I arrived so it was follow what has gone before. Since they weren't a supplier to the military none of the federal specs were a concern, the inspection department was responsible for bad product issues but problems were most often corrected by us (die makers) on the floor as they happened. Even when I was at Miller Industries (towing and recovery vehicles) in 2018 they didn't attempt to follow any Federal welding specs until military/international contracts were being negotiated. Eklind may conform to Fed specs now, there's certainly a market for doing so.

As always, your input and experience is valuable here!

-That was nice of you to say so. I may not know much but am quite willing to share what I've experienced. I just don't want to come off as some Mr. Know-it-all or a braggart.

Don't let the know-it-alls stifle your interest in discussion!

-A number of them do disappoint. It's ok to not know or be unfamiliar with something. It's the keyboard warriors that don't know what they're talking about I find to be grating.