Twin Engine Rigging Fabrication Question

[Nitroneal]

Has anyone had experience rigging 2 V-8's inline to make a V-16.
I have a method to this maddness. I have a plan for connecting them together, I have some questions about timing and harmonic vibrations.
Thanks, Neal.

 

[rsanter]

timing was always the biggest problem and the right after that the harmonic vibarations (usually caused or made worse by having the timing off)

bob

 

[yhprum]

I think some use a double chain type coupling that allows some isolation of the harmonics/vibrations. Dont know if they are run independanetly or the timing is done crossing over to the other engine.

 

[rsanter]

historically they were timed independantly because that is all they could do back then.

you could go to a distributorless ignition and trigger it off a single trigger

bob

 

[tonydanzah]

Most of the big tractor pull rigs are either twin engine or quad engine.

 

[kbs2244]

I would second the tractor pull for ideas.
They seem to be the guys doing DIY multi engine stuff.
The pit area is usually pretty casual and they don’t mind you taking PICs.

The season is just getting started.

 

[Bigpigdave]

I used to build engines for Caterpillar, one of their large trucks used two 12 cylinder engines coupled together inline. Cat used a hydraulic coupler (rear of the first engine, front of the second) and had minimal problems. These were electronically injected diesel engines so injection timing was not a problem. When I ran these engines on a dyno they were tested separately, than coupled together. I would look at a custom scatter shield that allows for your engines to couple together with some type of custom hydraulic clutch. Just a thought.

Thanks, Dave

 

[Nitroneal]

Thenks for the great ideas. I'll look into thew tractor pull stuff. I'm new to this posting , I should have been more specific, The timing issue I was wondering aboutis whether to couple them 45 or 90 degrees apart on the firing. The vibration I was wondering aabout was whether to run a full size flywheel on the front engine. Thanks again.

 

[Bigpigdave]

I would build them as two separate complete engines (full flywheels on both), this is going to take some experimentation on your part for it to work. In the new Hot Rod Magazine there is an article on the twin engine Howard's Cams Dragster from the 1950's. This car had two Chevrolet small blocks coupled side-by-side, it was very interesting to see that they were linked together by the ring gears on the flywheels (one engine reversed of course). Let us know how this project goes, I am very interested in this type of home engineering. Good luck!!!

 

[Nitroneal]

Bigpigdave, Linked by the ring gears??? Man, they must have had to been perfect. The slightest failure on either side would have been spectacular, You bet I'll update, Have had this idea bouncing around my head for many years. Finally found a truck to put it in. I'm going to make a car hauler type ramp truck, possibly slide bed. Being the Mopar guy I am, I'll be using 2 440's in a L600 Dodge cab forward/tilt cab. The reason I was wondering about the flywheel thing, I was thinking to put a full size manual w/ no ring gear on the front eng. to help with the inertia and possibly soak up some vibration if any. But yes my plan is to build 2 seperate engines, I'll make all the pistons and rods weigh the same so I'll have the same bob weight and use good fluid dampners on both.
Later, Neal.

 

[madjack]

I have run twin engined dragsters in the distant past. I used a dragster style coupler between the two engines that you can get from Mark Williams, Currie or the race car fab shops. Timing is an issue as stated. Engine pulses need to be timed so the whole thing thinks its a V16 instead of two V8s to make the crank bearings live with big horse power

 

[Jared]

GMC did this with there 351 v-6 to make a v-12 you should be able to find out what they did.

 

[jesse68]

One of Hot Rod magazines 2009 "Dare To Be Different" cars had two small block chevys joined in line. He coupled them together with parts from a Lexus driveshaft vibration isolater. The cranks were timed slightly off and fired 1-1-8-8-4-4-3-3-6-6-5-5-7-7-2-2.

 

[madjack]

Another way is two industrial sprockets face to face off the crank snout, butted up to the second coming off the flywheel mount then wrapped with double roller chain, joined with a masterlink

 

[russlaferrera]

Many dragsters in the 60s used two V-8 engines There is an article in this months "Hot Rod" showing two SBC engines.

 

[Strouty]

1-1-8-8-4-4-3-3-6-6-5-5-7-7-2-2.

Were you stuttering? JK

 

[hydramatic]

[email protected] the fellows from the famed dragster "freight train " 2 smallblock chev engines..they can tell you how to couple them up

 

[Nitroneal]

Hydramatic, thanks, I'll give that a whirl.

 

[MrMack]

Has anyone had experience rigging 2 V-8's inline to make a V-16.
I have a method to this maddness. I have a plan for connecting them together, I have some questions about timing and harmonic vibrations.
Thanks, Neal.

There was a dual Detroit 671 setup in some WWII boats. We used a set of them on a rock crusher primary hammer mill. The engines were mounted side by side with gears on the tailshaft of each with seperate clutches the gears on the engines pulled a common center out put gear. all gears were the same diameter giving the output shaft the same rpms as the engines. We discovered that the engines both were reverse rotation compared to a normal engine. this made the output shaft rotate in the normal rotation. you could mount these engines in a conventional vehicle using the original output. If you wanted to use conventional rotation V/8 engines with this same type of gear setup you could reverse your differential by turning it upside down. (putting the pinion gear on the other side of the ring gear).

 

[kbeitz]

Street rod.... Two inline V12 engines...

 

[JamieK]

Found this info on a physics forum, of all places. Sounds like a good solution...

I had looked at using chain couplers like older tractor pullers and drag racers but since these motors can turn 6000 RPM + I wanted a better way to keep the grease in place.

I added a second key-way to a Fluiddamper brand harmonic balancer and the rear engine crank onto the rear engine. I built pieces to connect to a Zurn industries 800 hp electric motor coupler. The Zurn coupler allows up to 0.050 of misalignmentand up to a degree of off angle. It is basically a splined sleeve with 2 pucks which have teeth that engine the splines, It also has o-rings and can be filled with grease through pipe fittings.

Each engine has its own carburator, alternator, ignition, fuel pump and cooling system.

The power then proceeds through a normal torqueconvertor turbomatic 400 transmission then a driveshaft and a ford 9" rear.

Heres the entire thread - http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-175534.html

Oh yeah, check this out - a 48 cyl motorcycle...

http://www.bigbikeriders.com/48cyl.htm

 

[Nitroneal]

Yes, this is pretty much what I had in mind. How many degeees did you offset the rear engine to get the V-16??

 

[JamieK]

Sorry, that wasn't me that actually did this. I found the info on another forum. Google "twin engine coupling" and lots of info comes up. Looking around, it doesn't seem to matter how the engines are timed, btw.