Not really the point.
Who makes the best flare nut wrenches?
- Thread starter Persimmons1123
- Start date
Ricky Joe
Well-known member
Snap-on does make twelve point flare nut wrenches. Also, Blue Point made the single open end twelve point since at least 1941, my earliest example. Plomb, Fairmount, probably others did, also.
four.cycle
Well-known member
No "strong feelings" about any of them, other than "strong feelings" about Snap-on being ridiculously over-rated and outrageously expensive.
I've been using Indestro 367, 368, and 369 flare nut wrenches now for about... oh... 50 years or so and thus far haven't had any problems. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?
Snap-on flare wrenches are expensive, but they are not over-rated.
What’s expensive is rounding off the flare nut and delaying completion of the job.
The flare wrenches are actually that good though.
IDGAF what anyone else uses. Especially in the commercial space as a rank amateur.
You're being super weird about this. And that's a thing from me who is super weird about everything.
Indestro is also a brand I never heard of when I bought my Snap on.
So okay they're just as good or better. What's the point if I had no idea they existed?
KnurledNut
Well-known member
Those Indestro Super and Duro-chrome line wrenches were battle born!
I also thought highly of the Loc-Rite combination flare/box wrenches. One of the early engineers of modified off-corner design and superb finishing.
A sleeper set that doesn’t get mentioned much is the Williams USA wrenches that use the Snap-on design. Unfortunately, they are only available in SAE. Although i’m guessing at some point they did a limited run of metric because I came across one.
I think highly of Cornwell’s more recent line wrenches.
But ultimately, Snap-on still carries the torch in my book. The small refinements and improvements they have made over the years gives the current models one of the best fighting chances to conquer these notoriously problematic fittings.
neophyte
Well-known member
Dome of most recent General Mechanics Tool Kits made for the military where supplied by Snap-On.
Snap-On is, or was also offering the kits for general sale, snd the kits were in the $11,000+ range.
This price was two or three times what similar also relatively recent kits from other suppliers such as Armstrong, and Craftsman, and others were priced at.
Schurkey
Well-known member
REMARKABLY similar to my near-totally-useless Bonney set, one of which I posted a photo of in a previous post.None of these are stamped "Snap-on", so I have to assume that the United States Armed Forces had no choice but to use inferior-quality tools to service our military aircraft:
9 piece set $75 OBO
3 piece set $25
9 piece set $85
5 piece set $50
11 piece set w/roll up $150 OBO
.... but don't let me spoil your Kool-Aid party!
1. Who would need a box-end when working on tubing/hoses? The box end is obviously intended for some other process besides plumbing. An open-end, or a second flare-nut end would make sense. A box-end doesn't when it comes to tubing/hoses.
2. 12-point? That's so laughable in an automotive setting. I'll accept that it may be perfectly adequate in an aerospace application, as the fittings are either non-rusted, non-seized, easy-to-remove...or they're given a flotation test before total replacement. The 12-point design may make access easier in an environment where tool clearance is at a premium--but it totally sabotages any hope of breaking-free seized fittings. But then, seized fittings are inherently not tolerated in an aerospace application.
3. Speaking of "12-point", have any of you folks actually tried to use this design of "ratcheting flare-nut wrench" in an automotive application?
I needed an 18-mm flare nut wrench, and took a chance on one from Cripe, at much-reduced price. These things are sold under many brand names, but I expect there's a single manufacturer who stamps whatever name is desired on the wrench. Mine is "Armstrong".
What a joke. A flimsy piece of ****. Perhaps they're OK on aircraft, but they're a fitting-damaging nightmare on GM Power Steering Gear fluid nuts. And the handle is short for a reason--applying more torque than the very short handle comfortably allows, results in wrench slippage and fitting damage.
Until things get difficult, and then the expensive tools prove their worth in both time-savings, saving (or at least removal with minimal damage) marginal fittings, and--potentially--prevention of operator injury. A single employee going to the emergency room for a few stitches will cost the company hundreds if not thousands of dollars, plus the shame of having to reset the "XXXX hours without a time-lost accident" sign. An eye injury would be thousands if not tens of thousands. Compared to that, buying tools that are the least-likely to slip or break or in any other fashion lead to personnel injury is dirt-cheap.
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KnurledNut
Well-known member
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I'm betting the Gov isn't paying retail.
If snap on was selected, given a timeline/production speed/quality spec they were cheaper than everyone else.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
REMARKABLY similar to my near-totally-useless Bonney set, one of which I posted a photo of in a previous post.
1. Who would need a box-end when working on tubing/hoses? The box end is obviously intended for some other process besides plumbing. An open-end, or a second flare-nut end would make sense. A box-end doesn't when it comes to tubing/hoses.
2. 12-point? That's so laughable in an automotive setting. I'll accept that it may be perfectly adequate in an aerospace application, as the fittings are either non-rusted, non-seized, easy-to-remove...or they're given a flotation test before total replacement. The 12-point design may make access easier in an environment where tool clearance is at a premium--but it totally sabotages any hope of breaking-free seized fittings. But then, seized fittings are inherently not tolerated in an aerospace application.
3. Speaking of "12-point", have any of you folks actually tried to use this design of "ratcheting flare-nut wrench" in an automotive application?
I needed an 18-mm flare nut wrench, and took a chance on one from Cripe, at much-reduced price. These things are sold under many brand names, but I expect there's a single manufacturer who stamps whatever name is desired on the wrench. Mine is "Armstrong".
What a joke. A flimsy piece of ****. Perhaps they're OK on aircraft, but they're a fitting-damaging nightmare on GM Power Steering Gear fluid nuts. And the handle is short for a reason--applying more torque than the very short handle comfortably allows, results in wrench slippage and fitting damage.
Until things get difficult, and then the expensive tools prove their worth in both time-savings, saving (or at least removal with minimal damage) marginal fittings, and--potentially--prevention of operator injury. A single employee going to the emergency room for a few stitches will cost the company hundreds if not thousands of dollars, plus the shame of having to reset the "XXXX hours without a time-lost accident" sign. An eye injury would be thousands if not tens of thousands. Compared to that, buying tools that are the least-likely to slip or break or in any other fashion lead to personnel injury is dirt-cheap.
The main goal for a flare nut is to prevent replacing $1000 worth of lines of a POS car. Because it's too rotten to reflare and add a union, but the junction it goes to next it rotten, meaning I really need to drop the fuel tank if I want it mounted as factory. The tank with rotted straps, which I need to remove the rotted exhaust to access.
I would guess aircraft, aside from access issues, are gravy to work on in the respect theyre assembled and serviced as designed and to a standard. I'm again guessing, the phrase "make it work" doesn't apply. They're not rusty junk, they have to be safe, failure is literally not acceptable.
I can remove most of even the most rotten brake lines with a Chinese Sunex wrench and a torch. Most. But the cheaper the wrench is, the more heat/quench I need, which can break the paper-thin line. "Well replace the line then". On a plane, I imagine that's the standard. On a $3000 PA vehicle it's a different story - "declined".
Sent from a guy in rust-free Arizona.
A fair point. Never seen a rusted fastener in my life.
nicks78camaro
Well-known member
Never had a problem with my USA made SK flare nut wrenches.
bwringer
Well-known member
Interesting to see the differences between the salt vs. non-salt states.
You really have to wonder how much longer we're going to keep putting up with the economic and environmental damage of dumping a gazillion tons of the assorted types of road salts onto our roads every winter. The tradeoffs are significant.
You really have to wonder how much longer we're going to keep putting up with the economic and environmental damage of dumping a gazillion tons of the assorted types of road salts onto our roads every winter. The tradeoffs are significant.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
The SKs are nice. I think they slip easier than the snap on, but they spread rather than just destroying the nut like snap on does.
Pros, cons, the usual.
As a society we have chosen to socialize salt distribusion expense and collateral damage, to "save money" versus not having garbage tires.
EDIT: there's an economic Nobel prize just dying to be won comparing the expense of tires, compared to the incurred cost of salt.
DGersic
Well-known member
REMARKABLY similar to my near-totally-useless Bonney set, one of which I posted a photo of in a previous post.
1. Who would need a box-end when working on tubing/hoses? The box end is obviously intended for some other process besides plumbing. An open-end, or a second flare-nut end would make sense. A box-end doesn't when it comes to tubing/hoses.
2. 12-point? That's so laughable in an automotive setting. I'll accept that it may be perfectly adequate in an aerospace application, as the fittings are either non-rusted, non-seized, easy-to-remove...or they're given a flotation test before total replacement. The 12-point design may make access easier in an environment where tool clearance is at a premium--but it totally sabotages any hope of breaking-free seized fittings. But then, seized fittings are inherently not tolerated in an aerospace application.
3. Speaking of "12-point", have any of you folks actually tried to use this design of "ratcheting flare-nut wrench" in an automotive application?
I needed an 18-mm flare nut wrench, and took a chance on one from Cripe, at much-reduced price. These things are sold under many brand names, but I expect there's a single manufacturer who stamps whatever name is desired on the wrench. Mine is "Armstrong".
What a joke. A flimsy piece of ****. Perhaps they're OK on aircraft, but they're a fitting-damaging nightmare on GM Power Steering Gear fluid nuts. And the handle is short for a reason--applying more torque than the very short handle comfortably allows, results in wrench slippage and fitting damage.
Until things get difficult, and then the expensive tools prove their worth in both time-savings, saving (or at least removal with minimal damage) marginal fittings, and--potentially--prevention of operator injury. A single employee going to the emergency room for a few stitches will cost the company hundreds if not thousands of dollars, plus the shame of having to reset the "XXXX hours without a time-lost accident" sign. An eye injury would be thousands if not tens of thousands. Compared to that, buying tools that are the least-likely to slip or break or in any other fashion lead to personnel injury is dirt-cheap.
The box end is what you hammer on to the rounded off fitting, after cutting the tube to get it out of the way.
I really want something like that Armstrong wrench, but in a six point, edge grabbing, non-rounding off the fastener design. With a very fine ratchet that clicks in 1* or less for those spots where there is just no room to turn anything.
DGersic
Well-known member
A fair point. Never seen a rusted fastener in my life.
“You ****.”
I’ve never worked on a car that didn’t have rusted fasteners.
Schurkey
Well-known member
You said it better than I did. That is exactly what I meant.
Could be. I have no real trouble imagining that's exactly the way they thought. The Bonney wrench set has "first generation" off-corner broaching on both the tube-nut end and the box-end. Not as fancy or refined as "Flank Drive", but better than sharp corners.
neophyte
Well-known member
Gov might not be paying retail, but but I presume price discount percentages are somewhat equal, meaning a $5,000 GMTK from Armstrong cost the Gov significantly less than the $11,000 Snap-On GMTK.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Salt kills anadromous salmonids.
You will never see it used on roads on the west coast.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
That's not a given. Snap on gives students 50% off, does Armstrong? Well, did Armstrong? SO has more to give as their MSRP is so high.
All else equal, whoever is cheaper gets the contract. If the military had a hanger full of Epiq boxes with an 18k retail, it's because for a given storage space, capacity, and availability - snap on was the cheapest.
Wakefield
Well-known member
In a suburb of Washington DC we have been seeing a lot of white oak decline and death,I suspect the gradual accumulation of sodium cation exchanged against other cations due to road salt encroachment over a period of years might be involved
in recent years the use of salt "for pretreatment" has greatly increased even in residential areas
the salt doesn't all stay in the street,some of the briny melt overflows curbs instead of going down the drain (into the Potomac) and sometimes the salt dries in the road,gets ran over until it is pulverized into a powder that then gets picked up by wind and deposited far and wide where it slowly interacts with soil (and also small amounts get on windows,get deposited onto air conditioner condenser fins where only a small amount of it starts to corrode/rot the soft aluminum heat exchange fins
I think the worst incidents occur when the weather calls for snow,the snow fails to happen but the salt got put out anyway,then the stuff gets ground to powder by the traffic.
I believe heavy use of gypsum can be antidote and I think that gypsum was used by the Dutch and North Germans in reclaiming former seabed (floodwalled off and the sea pumped out with windmill power) as land for flowerbulb production.
Wakefield
Well-known member
back to flare nut wrenches : I notice that the raised panel Craftsman/Sears flare wrenches usually seen have the same 5 corner gullet as the current Snap On and the new SBD Craftsman,however getting out my old -v- wrench I notice that it has only 4 corners (this thing is over 50 years old) have no idea if it is inferior to the wrench with 5 corners made 7 or so years ago when it was still Sears (and USA)
the 15 mm. one is a Wright
the 15 mm. one is a Wright
Those Craftsman line wrenches are the worst tool ever made in the United States. Their very existence should be labeled treasonous.back to flare nut wrenches : I notice that the raised panel Craftsman/Sears flare wrenches usually seen have the same 5 corner gullet as the current Snap On and the new SBD Craftsman,however getting out my old -v- wrench I notice that it has only 4 corners (this thing is over 50 years old) have no idea if it is inferior to the wrench with 5 corners made 7 or so years ago when it was still Sears (and USA)
four.cycle
Well-known member
Wakefield
Well-known member
The first couple of them I got from the neighborhood Sears when someone at a mower repair shop showed me how to change the inline fuel filter in a Rochester carburetor of a Chevy Six in a C10 County pickup that I sort of learned how to drive while working at my first tempo job that was better than working at McDonald's
the 1/2" Craftsman was good enough to do that one and later the longer inline filter that was in a Quadrajet in a 1967 Olds Cutlass that I later had actually have a couple antique Bonneys too
I have a hodgepodge of Wright ,Snap On (just got about $300. worth of small metric ones that should fit brake fittings on 2004 Grand Cherokees) probably wouldn't touch that car with the Craftsman
isb cornbinder
Well-known member
I agree with you. I also have flare-nut wrenches in SK. Both brands have been reliable st work and at home.
Wrench97
Well-known member
Buddy tells me working on airplanes is pain with all the paper work but it's the test drives that makes him the most nervous..
Wrench97
Well-known member
Pretreatment with brine is the worse, it has chemicals that make it adhere to the surface it was sprayed on, which also makes it adhere to the underside of vehicles....
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I bought the HF Pittsburgh line wrenches as a young tech...... would've had more grip from needle-nose pliers.
neophyte
Well-known member
Snap-On was available from a number of retailers who discounted off the list price, sometimes at 50%.
neophyte
Well-known member
Sears Craftsman had SK made wrenches in the “Craftsman Professional” line of tools in the 1990s, and maybe earlier, for those who didn’t mind spending more for a nicer flare nut wrench.
Wakefield
Well-known member
Wonder if anyone has a preference for the 3/8" drive CrowFoot flare nut version
Schurkey
Well-known member
The first I ever noticed of 4-corner flare nut wrenches were some Hazzard Fraught bottom-feeder dreck. I figured the Chinese "Receive and Duplicate" R&D department screwed-up.I notice that the raised panel Craftsman/Sears flare wrenches usually seen have the same 5 corner gullet as the current Snap On and the new SBD Craftsman,however getting out my old -v- wrench I notice that it has only 4 corners...
...the 15 mm. one is a Wright
Wasn't until this thread that I noticed one of my craptastic Crapsman wrenches was also 4-corner; an inherited tool--NOT something I paid money for.
If a wrench that grips at five corners can slip and damage the fastener...imagine how bad one with 20% less contact would be.
Schurkey
Well-known member
I have a set of those in SAE and Metric, but they're never my first choice except in 18mm; largely because I don't own an 18mm flare nut wrench except as described earlier.
Wakefield
Well-known member
The Nepros "brake pipe wrench" NMSZ- 10 it' 10 mm. at both ends,one end externally is shaped like a regular open end wrench,the other end is shaped externally like a normal flare nut wrench but has a "bolster" that subtracts from the working depth available for the flare nut to nest in. The working depth of both ends is less than that of a Snap On RXSM10B ,much less than Snap On's FRHM10 10 mm. Crow's Foot flare wrench. 
Attachments
Wakefield
Well-known member
Don't seem to be able to edit my just done post. Want to repeat that the Snap On has a greater working depth than either end of the Nepros. Will try to put a picture up of the (Snap On !) Crow's Foot 10 mm. flare. 
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Rockable
Well-known member
After trying some of the cheap auto parts store brand flare nut wrenches, I threw them in the garbage and bought a set of Snap Ons. I don't own many SO tools but these were worth the money. I have not rounded off one flare nut since buying them.
wafrederick
Well-known member
Snap On,they do not spread under use