Will code allow doing my service this way? (diagram included)

[reader2580]

I planning ahead to replace my service after the 2020 NEC goes into effect in Minnesota probably by Oct 1st. (Was planned for July 1st, but COVID delayed it.)

I have attached a line diagram of what I want to do and I am wondering if it is code legal? Basically, installing a 200 amp meter base with 200 main breaker and having that breaker feed both my main panel / load center and a sub panel. (Yes, main panel needs a four wire feed.) I would do a tap for the sub panel with Polaris type connectors after the main breaker.

Ignore the typo in the drawing that I couldn't figure out how to fix.

 

[brewchief]

How about using one of the meter base combos that has 8 spaces and feed through lugs? Your 200 amp service would go to the feed through lugs and the sub would come off of a breaker sized for it? If you are planning on a sub over 100 amps this might not work but in that case I think I would be looking at one of same types meter base combos but in the 320 amp flavor that have 2 200 breakers.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Bert_]

Everything after the main breaker is a sub panel. What you have planned is fine.

The meter main + spaces is probably going to be cheaper. I really wish someone would start making one with room for 2 or 3 wires on the feed through lugs.

 

[yeldogt]

I thought each line out needs a disconnect -- the SE /meter has a 200 and then each sub needs it's own.

How can he just have one ?

 

[Bert_]

I thought each line out needs a disconnect -- the SE /meter has a 200 and then each sub needs it's own.

How can he just have one ?

Feeder tap. There are a few rules that limit the length of tap conductors inside a building.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I thought each line out needs a disconnect -- the SE /meter has a 200 and then each sub needs it's own.

How can he just have one ?

In his diagram everything is fed off the 200a breaker so all the feeders do have a disconnect. Nothing in code says each feeder needs to have its own dedicated disconnect. As Bert mentioned above, its a feeder tap.

 

[reader2580]

The sub panel is for solar. I have an outdoor load center mounted between my two solar inverters that the inverters feed into. There is no main breaker on the sub panel as it is only six spaces.

I have been unable to get any clarity on if I could use a single 200 amp breaker to control two feeders.

I would like to use a meter main, but I am afraid I would run into the 120% bus bar capacity rule for solar. I am using a tap for my solar because I can't use my main load center due to the 120% bus bar capacity rule.

 

[reader2580]

One major problem I am running into with replacing my meter base is the original electrician put the utility feed into the right side of the meter base. Many meter bases are set up only for left side utility feeds. In fact, some utilities require the left most opening be for the utility.

I cannot simply have the utility company move the utility feed to the left side because that is where the gas line runs into the house. The house was electric heat when I bought it in 2014 with no natural gas. The gas company placed the gas meter about as close to the electrical meter as allowed by their rules due to limited space.

I have a request into the gas company to see if it is possible to move the gas meter and at what cost.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

can you post some pics so we can see what all youre talking about

 

[sparky 1971]

One major problem I am running into with replacing my meter base is the original electrician put the utility feed into the right side of the meter base. Many meter bases are set up only for left side utility feeds. In fact, some utilities require the left most opening be for the utility.


I have a request into the gas company to see if it is possible to move the gas meter and at what cost.

I don't know this to be true but... I had a similar situation where I needed the utility on the right. When bitching about it at the local supply house, the counter salesman told me that Milbank makes a meter main with the supply on the right, but they don't stock it. I didn't look into it because I didn't have time to wait for a special order to come. I just made a really ugly bend to cross the conduits. It may be worth checking into though if you have enough time to wait.

On another note: At my own house, when I went from oh to ug service, the PoCo supplied and installed the meter main at the pole. I already had two 2" conduits sticking out of the ground at the pole, one for the house, one for the garage. I had my 2" ko cutter ready to go so I could punch a hole on the right for the garage and use the factory hole in the center for the house when they showed up. The lineman said eff it and took out the utility barrier so they could bring in the house feed on the left and the garage in the middle. Inspector showed up about 20 minutes later and told me I couldn't do that. I told him I didn't, they did and pointed at the linemen while showing him my ko cutter. He then just laughed and gave me an inspection passed tag.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, You will be well served by making an appointment with the local building department and taking a box of doughnuts with you.

 

[reader2580]

IMHO, You will be well served by making an appointment with the local building department and taking a box of doughnuts with you.

The electrical inspector is not part of the local building department. The folks at the city are very helpful, but can't speak to electrical.

In Minnesota electrical inspectors are contractors on behalf of the state. Only the largest cities in the state employ their own electrical inspectors. The contract inspector who does inspections in my city doesn't like to help homeowners. If you can't tell him what section of the NEC pertains to the question he won't help. A lot of sections of the NEC are vague as to what is really allowed and I am trying to get clarification so I pass the inspection and don't waste my time and the inspector's time. The inspector should be able to say what is allowed.

 

[reader2580]

I have attached picture of my electrical meter and gas meter. I expect I will need to replace some of the siding to make this all work.

 

[reader2580]

Anybody have any thoughts on how to deal with a meter base where the utility side comes in on the right and most meter bases are set up for utility on the right?

The picture pretty clearly shows I really can't just move the utility side further to the left without running into my gas service. It would be very difficult, but not impossible, to move the load center inside the house six inches to right as seen from the outside. The entrance into the house is at the back of that lower junction box.

Someone from the utility is coming out this afternoon to look at my meter situation and offer suggestions that meet all the various clearance requirements.

 

[yeldogt]

In his diagram everything is fed off the 200a breaker so all the feeders do have a disconnect. Nothing in code says each feeder needs to have its own dedicated disconnect. As Bert mentioned above, its a feeder tap.

How do you tie then together after the breaker ?

 

[reader2580]

How do you tie then together after the breaker ?

I already have a tap for my solar and in my case the electrician tied everything together with Polaris connectors. I need to replace the tap with larger conductors due to moving my solar array.

 

[reader2580]

The gentleman from the power co-op was just here. He said he would have no issue running the utility feed between the gas feed into the house and the conduit for the power going into the house.

There will be a fee to splice the cable underground to extend it into the the new meter base.

 

[reader2580]

What about this Siemens meter base with disconnect? Siemens MM0404L1400RLM It should have plenty of room inside to join my wires together. I would only use it for 200 amps, not 320/400.

I have read that a lot of inspectors won't allow both breakers to be used since there is no divider between the breakers. People who actually have two 200 amp panels tend to use a 320/400 amp meter base without disconnect and then run over to two separate boxes with a 200 amp disconnect in each.