To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Wire Gauge for a sub panel?

mpire

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
1,861
Location
Florida
Everyone keeps telling me to run a sub panel.

I don't have access to the wall at this point to put one in, and thats my biggest issue. :headscrat

What size wire do I need for a 220 only sub panel? I would want to run the hot water heater, and two mini-split air conditioners.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

ishiboo

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2010
Messages
9,481
Location
Oshkosh, WI
Everyone keeps telling me to run a sub panel.

I don't have access to the wall at this point to put one in, and thats my biggest issue. :headscrat

What size wire do I need for a 220 only sub panel? I would want to run the hot water heater, and two mini-split air conditioners.

What is the required breaker size for both the hot water heater and each mini-split? From this you can determine the wire size.

Run a neutral anyway just in case you ever want to put a 120 circuit on it. It's not much more and it's good planning.
 

Falcon67

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
18,371
Location
Merkel, TX
Spitting at that target from 10,000 feet I'd guess you'll need at least 70 amps to feed that, maybe more. You have to figure the total current draw, the distance and how the wire is to be run (open air, conduit, etc) for a start.
 

fefarms

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
186
From your "cosolodating a square-d panel" post, we find the specs for the 9000 BTU/Hr mini-split at 3.5 amps at 240 volts in heating mode. Assuming the other mini-split is sized similarly, we have two small loads plus a water heater. Ordinary water heaters normally draw 4500 watts (some go up to 5500 watts), and are usually supplied by 10 AWG wire with a 30 amp two-pole breaker.

I'd recommend a 100 amp sub-panel (more capacity than you need, but it provides extra working room and is cheap) with a 6AWG feeder and a 60 (or 50) amp breaker in the main panel. The 6AWG wire and 60 (50) amp breaker are commonly used for electric ranges and represent a good cost/performance trade-off. This arrangement will handle your current plans and provides some extra for possible future expansion.

You can go with less capacity than this if you are financially challenged.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
M

mpire

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
1,861
Location
Florida
Money is not the issue at all. The issue I am having is that I don't really have a way to run the wire. There is a bedroom above my garage and no crawl space or anything. After working so hard to get the garage walls cleaned up and wainscoting, now I find myself with a problem in getting the wiring run for a sub panel. So rather than destroy all the pretty work I have done, I would just give up and consolidate the breakers on the panel.

I am thinking that I could just bust up the opposite wall in the laundry room and run the wire across the ceiling and cover it with crown molding at a future date, but I can guarantee the wife will have a conniption. The idea would be to mount a small sub panel on the concrete block where the hot water heater and compressor is.

Clearly this house wasn't intended to have much 220. I just ordered the small mini-split to put in the upstairs bedroom as a test run, then will follow up with one for the 22x30 garage, and if that works out then put another one in my office. My existing A/C unit is now 10 years old and horribly inefficient, and the less I use it the more money it will save in Florida.

This is the wall with the panel on it. Its so pretty, and I am wondering how hard 6 awg is to run, and if its worth it. I can't get away with using the existing 10 ga hot water heater wiring for a small setup can I?

154984_457117555754_508220754_5958996_2439204_n.jpg


For reference here is an old picture so you can see the whole wall...

8427_133982920754_508220754_2942629_3077030_n.jpg


In the small left corner where its concrete block I have the House A/C (opposite wall outside), hot water heater, 60 gal 220 compressor, dryer, and plan on mounting the garage A/C on this wall and running the wire from here to the attic to power the bedroom A/C minisplit.

Would it be against code to run a wire up an existing A/C duct tube to get to the attic? There is that expandable round tube that the air flows through, but there is a square tube that surrounds it.
 
Last edited:

Falcon67

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
18,371
Location
Merkel, TX
Last time I looked, most electric water heaters from 40 gallons on had at least two 4500w elements. Isn't that 9000w or a 50A breaker?
 
Last edited:

fefarms

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
186
water heaters are designed to operate one element at a time. Voltage is only passed to the lower element once the upper thermostat is satsfied and the upper element is off.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom