My existing service panel is full and I am adding a 100 amp sub panel immediately adjacent to the existing panel. I will have to pull two single pole breakers in order to add a 70 amp double pole breaker. The 70 amp breaker will be used to feed the sub panel. My question is, Can I wire nut the two existing circuits (now with no breakers) in the existing panel and terminate them to a breaker in the new sub panel ? Hope this makes enough sense to be responded to.
Wiring a sub panel
- Thread starter chk69
- Start date
Aceman
Well-known member
Yes. It's done all the time.
pattenp
Well-known member
By who's code?
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Alternative that is a bit neater (IMHO).
Swap out 2 other breakers for tandem breakers. Everything stays in the same box.
Because the sub panel is next to the main, it does not require a main breaker.
Swap out 2 other breakers for tandem breakers. Everything stays in the same box.
Because the sub panel is next to the main, it does not require a main breaker.
Chicago and the NEC.
The "Urban Legend Code".
There is nothing to prohibit splicing in a panel in the NEC, & the Chicago code is irrelevent outside of Chicago, even though some Chicago suburbs do ban the use of NM cable like Chicago, so they may have adopted some or all of that code.
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The "Urban Legend Code".
There is nothing to prohibit splicing in a panel in the NEC, & the Chicago code is irrelevent outside of Chicago, even though some Chicago suburbs do ban the use of NM cable like Chicago, so they may have adopted some or all of that code.
Most Chicago suburbs have adopted the Chicago electrical code. As for urban legend code I'd suggest brushing up on the NEC especially the section on enclosures for switches and overcurrent devices.
pattenp
Well-known member
You are the one who needs to brush up. 2011 NEC 312.8
BEWM ROASTED.
But, why wouldn't you be able to splice in a panel? Sure it's ugly, but if it's done properly, the panel can be a junction box.
hh76
Well-known member
BEWM ROASTED.
But, why wouldn't you be able to splice in a panel? Sure it's ugly, but if it's done properly, the panel can be a junction box.
In my opinion, I don't think a couple, well done splices in a load center is much uglier than a junction box fitted to accomidate them.
The issue would be with space requirements, and manufacturer's specs.
pattenp
Well-known member
BEWM ROASTED.
But, why wouldn't you be able to splice in a panel? Sure it's ugly, but if it's done properly, the panel can be a junction box.
I wasn't trying to roast anyone even though it came out that way. 312.8 always allowed splices in the breaker panel provided there was the proper space to do so. In 2011, 312.8 was rewritten to better clarify what was required to do splices in a breaker panel.
Highbeam
Well-known member
It's been a few hours, what happened to RTW5150? I'm no code expert but know that you can, and I have, used wire nuts inside a panel and passed inspection.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
This is frequently done when old, small panels, especially fuse panels, are replaced with much larger circuit breaker panels. There is never enough wire to reach the breakers. You either run a new wire back to the first junction in the circuit, or you splice a section on in the new panel you installed, so as to reach the CB. Its a matter of necessity. Doesn't look real pretty, but if done neatly, its no big deal.
Charles
Charles
Zeke
Well-known member
I know you guys are correct that a few splices are allowed in a load center. But, my experience with the above scenario is to use the old panel as the junction box and do all the splices in there. Keeps the new panel looking sharp and uncrowded.
In the case the OP describes, I assume he can leave the neutrals and grounds where they are and run the 2 circuits over to the subpanel since it's immediately next to the main. Or does he treat is as if it was 100' away?
The neutrals need to be run w/ the ungrounded conductors.
Highbeam
Well-known member
The last one of these panel swaps I did, to get rid of a zinsco, I installed a large junction box above the panel and just about every circuit had extensions added inside this box and then landed on the new panel. That was a lot of wire nut twisting.
Aceman
Well-known member
You've seen these?
http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...akers/CHRetrofitInteriorKits/index.htm#tabs-1
There's a good pdf on sizing them and part numbers if you google eaton retrofit kit. I'm not computer savvy enough to know how to post it here.
When doing that as a professional it could pay to use it, but for a DIYer where the labor is free, patching the drywall is not a big expense.
Aceman
Well-known member
When doing that as a professional it could pay to use it, but for a DIYer where the labor is free, patching the drywall is not a big expense.
Sometimes I forget these guys aren't billing their time out.
Zeke
Well-known member
Aceman, that is a great link. And just what I need. But they don't make one small enough. My old GE 12 position 100A meter load center will take a 12 x 14 insert, no more. And it's full of double pull skinny breakers. Since GE never made those, you can imagine.
I'd like to fix it. Maybe I'll start a thread and not hijack this one.
I'd like to fix it. Maybe I'll start a thread and not hijack this one.