While doing the rough plumbing for the apartment over my garage we found that the drain for the shower comes out right in the center of an I joist. Great just my luck. Is it possible to notch the I joist and put wood (Plates) in the webbing?
Can you notch an I joist?
- Thread starter Big_Jim
- Start date
larry4406
Well-known member
Not supposed to. Stagger your joist layout to avoid the plumbing. Depending on span, your floor joist engineer may be able to come up with a web-scab repair to enable you to wound the flange.
slghmmr88
Well-known member
I'd rather move the drain.
Edit: If I was inspecting I would note this on the report and suggest to my clients to require sign off by structural engineer.
Edit: If I was inspecting I would note this on the report and suggest to my clients to require sign off by structural engineer.
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Not really an option. The stall is against the wall on one side & the door molding on the other. The drain is almost dead smack in the middle of a 24' span too. On a side note nice avatar.
If it's engineered joist- some inspectors will let you drill a clean single hole in the web. Can't notch the top or bottom though. Or- drop drain below joist & furr ceiling down below shower area. Better planning would have had shower vertical drain lining up w/ space between joists.
Or install tile shower & put drain off center.
Or install tile shower & put drain off center.
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I over killed it because I didn't want a bouncy floor. The joist are 14" 24' span and they are 16" OC.
It's a shower stall with the drain in the center of the floor. As for the planning; I moved stuff around on the plans so its my fault entirely.
tcianci
Well-known member
You can't cut the top of bottom chords of the I joist but you CAN drill the web. The manufacturer has specifications on what type of penetrations are allowable. The specifics depend on both the size of the hole desired and the location of the hole with respect to the rest of the joist. If you follow these recommendations, your inspector should have no beef with the job.
garboui
Well-known member
what about moving that joist over a bit and adding another or two so that there will be 3 joists all about 5 1/3" apart and the drain can sit nicely between the two? its over built at this point. im not privy with codes but structurally this may be your safest option.
Its all framed up and it is so tight really nothing can be moved. If we move the wall it interferes with the kitchen door. I've been racking my brain to figure this out. Local codes wont let us build anything over 700sq feet (foot print) so everything is kinda crammed in (we are at 696sq ft). This is an apartment over my garage for my elderly Mom. I'm planning everything for the future. Will she be in a wheel chair? Doors are all 36" the toilet is between two walls so grab bars can be installed if needed. The shower is a walk in with a seat...the list goes on and on. Trying hard to think of everything but Murphy and his laws keep getting in my way.
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The contractor did say they only needed an inch an a half to clear it. Maybe they could move one over? Not sure if that is a big deal or not. I'm thinking just go with the 48" stall. At least then she will have a 12" area to put a small garbage pail.
rslaback
Well-known member
If it was me I would build the shower up on a platform and use an elbow to kick over the drain to between the joist. A simple 2x6 platform would take care of it. It isn't ideal but it beats weakening the structure. Had to do my parents bathroom this way.
If it was dimensional material you could double the two joists on either side and header the cut joist over like a stairway then fill the opening with whatever layout you want.
If it was dimensional material you could double the two joists on either side and header the cut joist over like a stairway then fill the opening with whatever layout you want.
Titanium Frost
Well-known member
Sorta like this. Plated on both sides.
The maximum stress in the beam is in the top and bottom flange, so that solution will do nothing to transfer the stress across the top flange. The bottom flange will probably eventually fail. You may be able to splice the flange using a steel plate (with a hole for the drain), but that would have to be properly engineered where it connects to the flanges on both side of the splice.
Using a 2x beam is probably not an option, because of the depth required. If you can install additional I beams on either side, that would be the easiest solution.
Good luck!
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strizzy
Well-known member
See this is why you guys rock.
I will get with the contractor in the morning and throw some ideas at him and see what he says. I will let you know.I'd rather go with the smaller shower than have to notch the beam.
kert
Well-known member
Could you add another I-Joist from below? Go ahead an notch the joist that you need to, but install an "extra" I-joist as close as possible.
If it were me, I think I'd go with a tiled shower and put the drain wherever was best. I've been in a few european bathrooms where the shower area was defined by the faucet, shower curtain, and drain, but no walls or curbs. The floor was just sloped toward the drain in the shower area. Perfect for accessibility.
If it were me, I think I'd go with a tiled shower and put the drain wherever was best. I've been in a few european bathrooms where the shower area was defined by the faucet, shower curtain, and drain, but no walls or curbs. The floor was just sloped toward the drain in the shower area. Perfect for accessibility.
The reason for the walk in shower stall is because she loses balance easily and I want her to be able to just walk in. If I did this I would have to make a step for her to get in and things being so tight she will trip over the step. For me your solution would work fine just not for a frail 75 year old (with a habit of falling I might add). Last year she spent 8 months in a hospital & rehab learning how to walk again after the phone rang and she tripped over her dog (Pomeranian) and broke both ankles. If I could I'd make an airbag suit for her to ware.
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
why not just cut the joist completely and header it off to the adjacent joists on each side?
If you have over killed the design maybe the adjacent joists on each side can carrier the additional load.
If you have over killed the design maybe the adjacent joists on each side can carrier the additional load.
You are not the first person to suggest this unfortunately I'm not a framer and have no idea what this would entail or if it would work. Do you have a photo or diagram of what this looks like?
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
sorry i don't have a photo but i know it is done.
someone had to do your engineering why not check with them or the joist manufacturer
someone had to do your engineering why not check with them or the joist manufacturer
Usually the drilling of the web is limited to a certain amount from each end - when you get to center of span it isn't allowed.
you shouldn't have to move more than 1.5" either way to poke a hole downward cleanly. That should be able to be done pretty easy without too much reframing, other option would be to do a mud pan and the drain can be anywhere if I read this as a low entry shower.
you shouldn't have to move more than 1.5" either way to poke a hole downward cleanly. That should be able to be done pretty easy without too much reframing, other option would be to do a mud pan and the drain can be anywhere if I read this as a low entry shower.
Crusty Nut
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2008
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If the offset drain doesn't work out, I would seriously consider just tiling the whole room and put a drain wherever convienant. It is commonly called a "wet room" It would also be about the easiest walk in shower there could be.
White 99
Well-known member
I think a tile guy could form a shower pan that placed the drain anywhere within the shower, like on the end of the shower floor. Sort of like the two inch drain from a above post. You would get a tile shower that way and could have a bench or anything else you need.
mmhouse
Well-known member
My quick answer would be absolutely not.
Google the brand name and you should find complete specs including how and where they can be cut or drilled.
Google the brand name and you should find complete specs including how and where they can be cut or drilled.
danski0224
Well-known member
Sorta like this. Plated on both sides.
Not just "no", but "hell no".
This repair is Not Allowed to fix a cut flange (may also be called a tendon). A similar repair may be made to repair a cut web, but only as allowed by the manufacturer.
A new I joist may be placed next to the one that is in the way, as long as the total span between joists is within specs. Then, the joist in the way can be removed.
Allowed maximum spacing is dictated by I joist series and unsupported span.
The webbing between the top and bottom flange may be cut out, but only as the specs allow (hole size, shape and location). Web joist manufacturers have this information on their websites.
Special hangers are required to header these joists, and you will also need to double the joists adjacent to the one being removed/cut, or install LVL's. This is also detailed in the instructions.
As an aside, LVL's are not supposed to be cut/bored at all.
The offset drain posted above will only work for solid wood (not solid engineered wood as in LVL) joist construction. That drain will not help you.
Please download the joist specs from the company that made yours and read it.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I have seen that in a wheel chair accessible motel room. Looks a bit odd but works perfect. Make certain you have a good tile guy and the the base is pitched toward the drain before laying tile.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I think you can do this with I-joists, but it would have to be "engineered" and would require special hangers.
78Bird
Well-known member
This is the best solution, a better quality end product and no re-framing
We are going with the 48" stall to bring the drain between the joists. This will move the wall over giving us a 12" space between the stall & the door trim so we can install wall switches for lighting & venting. Thanks for all the suggestions you guys are the best.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
^^^^This^^^^
cyamaha2007
Well-known member
I had to notch my ceiling joist. The designer for the joist told me to sever the joist and remove the needed amount from the overall length. Then i sandwiched a new joist on either side of the cut 6ft. This left me with me with a 2x6 opening. No issues yet.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
How big was the original joist and how much did you cut out ?
Was this a solid wood joist or a wooden I-beam like the OP ?
You can not notch, drill or otherwise damage the top and bottom flanges, no matter what the size or spacing of the joist. This is the number one repair detail our company has to deal with on I joist floors.
But check the manufactures hole cutting guide maybe your manufacturer will allow it, but I've never dealt with one that would let you.
But check the manufactures hole cutting guide maybe your manufacturer will allow it, but I've never dealt with one that would let you.
cyamaha2007
Well-known member
It was 12in tall 20ft long. I cut the joist clean then removed 6in leaving the joist with a gap between it. It was a flake board I beam. The designer wasnt really concerned with it since even with the joist removed the system was over built enough that it would have been ok with out it.