Fastening Sill plates to concrete

wfopete · Mar 26, 2011

I put in studded walls (16" OC) in my pole barn. I need to secure the sill plates to the pre existing concrete pad which is 4-6" thick. What is recommended? I thought hammer drill and wedge bolts but there may be better options.

mobetta · Mar 26, 2011

wedge bolts would be my first go to.

royalton10 · Mar 26, 2011

I have seen a Hilti gun (sp?) used. Don't have one and not sure of cost. It basically uses a charge similar to a 22 rifle to fire what looks like a pop rivet. At our church the Hilti was used to attached a metal track to the concrete floor. Then steel studs were used, sheet metal screws attached steel studs to the metal track on the floor.

Thruxton · Mar 26, 2011

I have used one of these for a number of years, they work very well if the concrete is in good shape.

royalton10 said:
I have seen a Hilti gun (sp?) used. Don't have one and not sure of cost. It basically uses a charge similar to a 22 rifle to fire what looks like a pop rivet. At our church the Hilti was used to attached a metal track to the concrete floor. Then steel studs were used, sheet metal screws attached steel studs to the metal track on the floor.

wfopete · Mar 26, 2011

I looked at a "Nail Gun", it took 27 cal shells and could fire up to a 3" nail. You could load 10 shells at a time. I just thought a wedge bolt would provide better holding power.

Dragster Racer · Mar 26, 2011

You know, I have one of those nail guns, and I have terrible luck with it. I never seem to get penetration or holding power. Oh Lord. Now it sounds like a personal problem.

mobetta · Mar 26, 2011

depends on what tools you already have. powder actuated nailers are nice, but the cheeep ones are ****. most peeps have a hammer drill.( well, most peeps around this site) wedge bolts will be stronger, too.

ddawg16 · Mar 26, 2011

Epoxy. Drill as above.....but don't use a wedge bolt....use an anchor bolt....you get those and the epoxy from the same place....the epoxy comes in a two part tube....it mixes it as you squeze it into the hole...insert anchor...let it dry.

Once it's cured....that SOB is not coming out.

ducati · Mar 26, 2011

Use these:
http://www.powers.com/product_7204SD.html

The only problem is you have to use their drill bits, standard size concrete bits won't work. This way at a later date if you need to move a wall or change your layout, just back the fasteners back out.

If you plan on using a standard wedge style anchor, drill the whole all the way thru you slab, then if you move a wall you can just take a sledge and beat the fastener down flush.

I have a Hilti 27cal gun, if I know for a fact that a wall will be permanent, I just use it, it holds quite well.

jkeyser14 · Mar 26, 2011

I tried the powder nailer approach in my garage and used ramsets reccomended size and powder load and had nothing but trouble with it spalling and pulling out. I wound up using tapcons and the wall is solid as a rock.

ForceFed70 · Mar 26, 2011

There are 2 common approaches in my neck of the woods.

- A TAPCON style bolt is often used by a DIYer who doesn't want to buy a hilti gun. All you need is a hammer drill.

- The pro's use a hilti gun, but only because it's fast. I prefer a TAPCON style bolt as it is removeable and holds better IMO. IN reality, all you need is the sheer strength so holding power really isn't a consideration.

http://www.tapcon.com/

slip knot · Mar 26, 2011

Don't drill all the way thru the slab. Your just introducing a moisture/termite entrance issue. If moving a wall becomes an issue later just grind off whatever sticks up out of the slab.

Frank The Plumber · Mar 26, 2011

Wedge or epoxy bolts, the shots shatter the concrete when they enter. Tap cons will rust out in a few years.

ForceFed70 · Mar 26, 2011

Frank The Plumber said:
Wedge or epoxy bolts, the shots shatter the concrete when they enter. Tap cons will rust out in a few years.

Code in my area says you must use tapcon if anchoring treated lumber due to the improved corrosion resistance. I really don't think corrosion is a significant problem with a tapcon. Especially since the norm is a standard concrete/hilti nail. My last house was 40years old with nailed sills (interior walls) and they were still well fastened and a PITA to remove.

ducati · Mar 26, 2011

slip knot said:
Don't drill all the way thru the slab. Your just introducing a moisture/termite entrance issue. If moving a wall becomes an issue later just grind off whatever sticks up out of the slab.

If you have moisture or tirmite issues, you have a bigger problem than beating a 1/2" wedge anchor down. I'm not saying to beat it all the way through, just flush. The anchor will still keep the whole plugged.

Frank The Plumber said:
Wedge or epoxy bolts, the shots shatter the concrete when they enter. Tap cons will rust out in a few years.

Tapcons are ACQ rated. :thumbup:

ForceFed70 said:
Code in my area says you must use tapcon if anchoring treated lumber due to the improved corrosion resistance. I really don't think corrosion is a significant problem with a tapcon. Especially since the norm is a standard concrete/hilti nail. My last house was 40years old with nailed sills (interior walls) and they were still well fastened and a PITA to remove.

Also available in an ACQ rated nail

Rick98Z · Mar 28, 2011

When I did mine, someone gave me an older but free nail gun with shells and nails included so I went ahead and used it. I also applied construction adhesive on each board first before I nailed them down just as extra precaution. I never thought about corrosion on the nails though going into treated lumber...I might go back sometime and add some anchor bolts just for shits/giggles.

CBO · Oct 18, 2012

ITW/redhead wedgelocks work well, Simpson Titen bolts and if using shots they should be 3" with 1" steel washer starting 6" off plate breaks then usually no greater than 24"oc for load bearing walls. Check nails box for maximum spacing as well....usually based on nail diameter!

BC1 · Oct 18, 2012

wedge bolts are easy and quick, especially with a roto-hammer to drill it. the load is all shear so i don't understand why you would be too concerned with them pulling out.

JamieK · Oct 18, 2012

Are there any codes on this, specifing size, quantity, distance apart, etc?

tcianci · Oct 18, 2012

The OP said he put stud wall sin on 16" centers in a pole barn. There is no load bearing force on this wall and indeed all he needs is a little shear strength to keep the sole plate of the wall from moving. If he doesn't have access to a 27 cal. Hilti his best bet would be simple Tapcons. A lousy 1/2 inch of engagement will be fine, any hammer drill will be fine and he can install them with a rachet. It will probably cost less than 15 bucks to do the whole building. Many of the answers on here are way overkill and typical of folks who seem to like to turn a simple 5 minute job into a freakin career.

fergus · Oct 18, 2012

I used a regular old drill, plus an SDS (i think?) or impact masonry bit. Worked like a charm. Used RedHead anchor bolts to put a new sill down on my 80 year old garage concrete slab. No probs.

MTNFRAMER · Oct 18, 2012

ddawg16 said:
Epoxy. Drill as above.....but don't use a wedge bolt....use an anchor bolt....you get those and the epoxy from the same place....the epoxy comes in a two part tube....it mixes it as you squeze it into the hole...insert anchor...let it dry.

Once it's cured....that SOB is not coming out.

I am with Dawg, if you do not have a hilti or comparable drill, epoxy,anchor bolt.

Couple tips from an old carpenter- pre-drill thru wood then use mason bit, also stagger your holes it holds better than center holes. Another money saver over redhead or simpson etc. is threaded rod in epoxy.

Dan in Pasadena · Oct 18, 2012

Ramset single shot tool for $20 at Home Depot. Hard to beat that price. Don't have to measure-mark-drill-insert-tighten down. Stand up the wall, pull the trigger and you're done - niice. YMMV.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/cat...=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=SEARCH+ALL

retrobuilder · Oct 18, 2012

Tapcons..but just drill slightly deeper than screw for avoiding drill through. Use the drill that is supplied by Tapcon. They have a good website with info. Simple and quick. You need a hammer drill for best drilling.

jkeyser14 · Oct 18, 2012

I tried using a ramset in my garage. All it did was spall the concrete or pull right out.

I switched to tapcons and had great luck (though it took a lot longer).

Oggy · Oct 18, 2012

tcianci said:
The OP said he put stud wall sin on 16" centers in a pole barn. There is no load bearing force on this wall and indeed all he needs is a little shear strength to keep the sole plate of the wall from moving. If he doesn't have access to a 27 cal. Hilti his best bet would be simple Tapcons. A lousy 1/2 inch of engagement will be fine, any hammer drill will be fine and he can install them with a rachet. It will probably cost less than 15 bucks to do the whole building. Many of the answers on here are way overkill and typical of folks who seem to like to turn a simple 5 minute job into a freakin career.

This. Hilti gun and be done with it. I used to work for Hilti, so I'm biased (against ramset/remington) like tcianci said though, if you don't have one of those simple tapcons will work just fine. Wedge anchors are overkill, if you did use them you could probably get away with two per sill plate.

Edit: Biased against ramset/remington because every one I've used has been ****. You can rent a Hilti at nearly every rental place.

Rust · Oct 18, 2012

1969 said:
03.26.11

Those bolts come out yet?!...lol :evil:

ydna · Oct 18, 2012

Tcianci is right. Wedge anchors would be ridiculous for this application. Its a stud wall. Hilti gun or tapcons and forget about it. Both are perfectly adequate.

Red05GT · Oct 19, 2012

Drill a 1/4" hole with hammer drill, take two 16D common or galvanized nails side by side
and drive them into the hole. Cheap, quick and easy. We've used this system for temporary as well as permanent attachment for years. To remove it will take a cats
paw nail puller to pull out the top nail head first.

theoldwizard1 · Oct 19, 2012

I had one of my sill plates replaced with PT a couple of years ago. 1 stainless Ramset nail per stud bay. That baby isn't going anywhere !

Falcon67 · Oct 19, 2012

JamieK said:
Are there any codes on this, specifing size, quantity, distance apart, etc?

Since somebody woke up a dead thread -

On regular exterior walls - yes, UBC specifies. 1/2" galvanized J bolts - No more than 12" from the corners and 6' or less apart down the wall.

On a partition wall in a pole barn, no.

GarageEnvy · Oct 19, 2012

The epoxy and wedges are probably the strongest of what I've used but for what you're doing the tapcon or Hilti shot would work fine. I've got the El Cheapo single shot powder actuated tool that you have to hit with a hammer. Even with a heavy shot, sometimes it won't drive all the way.

Wadd2 · Oct 19, 2012

Again it's an old thread but I can't stop myself, lol. I have a Hilti gun and until I bought it couldn't understand how good they are. Heck even for load bearing walls. We anchor basement walls to the floor every house with a Hilti gun. The key to making them work is keeping them clean and in working order. I bought mine for $200 off of ebay and the seller stated it was used for 2 jobs and quit working. I took a chance and scored. Bought new seals and cleaned it up and it works perfect. Enough powder choices and depth setting on it I haven't found concrete it won't penetrate yet.

Spudland_Dave · Oct 19, 2012

3 Letters... LDT
I used 1/2" LDT's (Large Diameter Tapcon) all around.
Epoxy is strong...very strong. BUT a PITA to install, to do it correctly you should drill hole, blow it out, brush it out, blow it out, brush it out, blow it out...etc.. When time is money especially when your framing and such, you dont really need any "pull out" strength, just sheer strength.
Wedge anchors are good too...cant go wrong with those either.

Zeke · Oct 19, 2012

Spudland_Dave said:
3 Letters... LDT
I used 1/2" LDT's (Large Diameter Tapcon) all around.
Epoxy is strong...very strong. BUT a PITA to install, to do it correctly you should drill hole, blow it out, brush it out, blow it out, brush it out, blow it out...etc.. When time is money especially when your framing and such, you dont really need any "pull out" strength, just sheer strength.
Wedge anchors are good too...cant go wrong with those either.

Best advice since the thread got started. Always blow out the holes no matter what you use. Wedge bolts will certainly work better.

I like the 2 nails idea. Never used that. And I've built some temp walls before.

wfopete · May 21, 2013

Ok OP update! Believe it or not I'm just getting ready to fasten the sill plate. A key part I left out is:

This is a 30-foot wall with a double door in the middle of the span. My concern is the constant opening closing of the door and how that will affect (effect?) the choice of method for holding the sill plate securely.

hybred355 · May 22, 2013

The 2 nail deal or one nail and a peice of wire together in the hole. Larry

theoldwizard1 · May 22, 2013

ddawg16 said:
Epoxy. Drill as above.....but don't use a wedge bolt....use an anchor bolt....you get those and the epoxy from the same place....the epoxy comes in a two part tube....it mixes it as you squeze it into the hole...insert anchor...let it dry.

Once it's cured....that SOB is not coming out.

I concur, but you must get the CORRECT epoxy !

Remember when part of the ceiling in one of Bostons Big Dig tunnel collapsed because they used the wrong epoxy ? !! :shocking:

theoldwizard1 · May 22, 2013

Red05GT said:
Drill a 1/4" hole with hammer drill, take two 16D common or galvanized nails side by side
and drive them into the hole. Cheap, quick and easy. We've used this system for temporary as well as permanent attachment for years.

Interesting. Good for temporary, but unless you are using hot dipped galvanized nails or better yet, stainless steel nails, it will rust out from the moisture in the concrete,

Rookie2 · May 22, 2013

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/we...Product-_-CG_KW_ConcreteAnchor-_-WedgeAnchors

Fastening Sill plates to concrete

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