Universal / Swivel Sockets

[_brian_]

So there are two basic styles of these sockets. One is the u-joint type as seen on most all chrome sockets and the pin and pinless styles found on most impact versions. My interest is educational here. I have seen plenty of YouTube videos and I have my own experience with both types of these sockets and adapters. I hear from many that you should just skip over the u-joint style and get the other, as the u-joint style just *****. Then I see other YouTube videos where people in shops are using chrome u-joint style sockets on 1/4 drive impacts, both standard 1/4 square drive and 1/4 hex drive. So what is the deal? Do others here have any experience in this?

 

[Fedwrench]

I would skip the chrome versions except for maybe a few sizes like 5.5, 7, 8, 10, & 13 mm in 1/4 inch drive. Depending on what you work on, those sizes may offer you increased access over impact versions in certain European applications. Using a chrome swivel socket on the end of an impact driver will cause the socket pins to loosen, or if held by tiny set screws to back out over time. For the universal sockets held by the tiny set screws, you can remove them, apply a little loctite, reinsert, and drive on. The chrome pinned type just become loosey goosey over time.
I have a set of the older MATCO pinless impact swivel sockets in 1/4 drive that I use daily with a Milwaukee impact wrench that greatly speed things up. There is another category of chrome swivel sockets, Nutt Grip. They're made by Ko-Ken and use a coil wire spring with a detent ball to retain the fastener in the end of the universal socket. I highly recommend these because, you'll never drop another fastener in a difficult to find location again. I haven't used mine with an impact driver/wrench though.
The drawback to some lower priced impact swivel sockets is that many come with a fat collar, and are taller overall that may have access issues. People are going to use what they have available to get the job done whether in a shop or on You Tube.

 

[Zewnten]

I have 12pt chrome swivel in 1/4 only. Everything else is impact 6 point except for 5/8 12 point in 1/2 and 3/8 dr for starter bolts.

 

[_brian_]

I would skip the chrome versions except for maybe a few sizes like 5.5, 7, 8, 10, & 13 mm in 1/4 inch drive. Depending on what you work on, those sizes may offer you increased access over impact versions in certain European applications. Using a chrome swivel socket on the end of an impact driver will cause the socket pins to loosen, or if held by tiny set screws to back out over time. For the universal sockets held by the tiny set screws, you can remove them, apply a little loctite, reinsert, and drive on. The chrome pinned type just become loosey goosey over time.
I have a set of the older MATCO pinless impact swivel sockets in 1/4 drive that I use daily with a Milwaukee impact wrench that greatly speed things up. There is another category of chrome swivel sockets, Nutt Grip. They're made by Ko-Ken and use a coil wire spring with a detent ball to retain the fastener in the end of the universal socket. I highly recommend these because, you'll never drop another fastener in a difficult to find location again. I haven't used mine with an impact driver/wrench though.
The drawback to some lower priced impact swivel sockets is that many come with a fat collar, and are taller overall that may have access issues. People are going to use what they have available to get the job done whether in a shop or on You Tube.

Hmmm, ok, that was a lot to digest. The reason I liked the chrome is the size mostly, they are just smaller than the impacts, as you point out, that have the "fat collar". The price is essentially the same, so irrelevant. Those that use the wire spring around them.. I have seen those from a few brands, unsure on that. The ball dent, that must be Koken specific, especially with that spring.

I agree with your comments on YouTube, which is why I take it at that. I watch what others do and try to learn. I have seen some great stuff and some really bad stuff, as in even as a non professional I cringe at what I see people do. However, that is our "internet reality". Everyone has a voice, from the most intelligent to the absolute stupid. It is up to us to figure out who is who.

I can understand, even with my limited experiences, the difference between tools that are tools that should last a lifetime and tools that are sort of wear items, which is where I usually look for some warranty. Examples being flex head and ratcheting wrenches, long wrenches especially if ratcheting, pullers, universal and swivel type sockets, wobble extensions, bits and bit sockets, etc. I ok with wearing out a tool, leaving it without warranty, but I am not so ok with a tool that will wear prematurely or is prone to break more than others, again leaving without warranty.

Ok, so I have taken from your statements that even my Ryobi impact driver, not being a "real" impact, is still enough to cause excess wear to chrome swivel sockets. I have a set of 3/8 drive Gearwrench chrome swivels that I got about a year ago. I recently got a 3/8 drive impact metric swivels from Astro which I intend to use on hand ratchets and my 250 foot pound 3/8 air gun. I dont have any swivel for 1/2 or 1/4 drive yet, but I can see far more need for me with 1/4 drive. While I like the ones I purchased, I am hoping I can reduce cost and not buy a $100 set of both impact and chrome. I am assuming most of my 1/4 drive use will be impact driver, or I might end up with a 1/4 drive air or battery ratchet. If I consider 1/2 drive, this question is off the table, impact rated and non u-joint is a requirement. I hope that provides a bit of context.

 

[_brian_]

I have 12pt chrome swivel in 1/4 only. Everything else is impact 6 point except for 5/8 12 point in 1/2 and 3/8 dr for starter bolts.

Could I ask what brands and sets you have?

 

[cgrutt]

Anybody use the Icon swivel impact sockets and do you like them? 25% off this weekend I'm tempted to pick up the metric 1/2 set 12-24 no gaps. I think it's about $105 after discount so very reasonable price wise.

 

[Zewnten]

Could I ask what brands and sets you have?

Snap on for the 1/4 they hold up to a lot of torque, used a 15mm to remove the bolt mounting a P-pump in a 12v cummins with a 12" 1/4 ratchet and extra long extension. For 3/8 I bought NOS USA gearwrench/matco pinless, they're ok. Not very good for high torque. In 1/2 I have cornwell pinned for sae and NOS USA gearwrench pinless for metric. The 24mm blew up on my 1/2 impact at steep angle and the bolt wasn't all that tight. I've been looking at buying cornwell 1/4 impact swivels for my power tools as they don't have the collars but it's $700 for the metric set.

 

[_brian_]

Anybody use the Icon swivel impact sockets and do you like them? 25% off this weekend I'm tempted to pick up the metric 1/2 set 12-24 no gaps. I think it's about $105 after discount so very reasonable price wise.

I actually do not use any HF tools, aside from 1 set torque sticks. While I do not personally own ant ICON tools, I have seen a few and have not been impressed with what I saw for the price they sell for. However, I do get that there is a warranty advantage to many people. It is my opinion though that for the price, I can get better tools without the worry of finding coupons and all that crazy sales stuff.

HOWEVER, in my town we just had a HF open, and I am not one to just not look at a deal. I am passively looking at the Astro 1/2 drive swivel set, 12 to 24 (skipping 20 and 23), at $86. I can appreciate the ICON set having no skips for sure, but I also will admit I will likely never use a 20 or 23 swivel.... my regular sockets of those sizes are never used. So the ICON set is $20 more (after coupon/sale), I personally would pass in favor of Astro at regular price. I am curious, do you see it differently?

 

[_brian_]

Snap on for the 1/4 they hold up to a lot of torque, used a 15mm to remove the bolt mounting a P-pump in a 12v cummins with a 12" 1/4 ratchet and extra long extension. For 3/8 I bought NOS USA gearwrench/matco pinless, they're ok. Not very good for high torque. In 1/2 I have cornwell pinned for sae and NOS USA gearwrench pinless for metric. The 24mm blew up on my 1/2 impact at steep angle and the bolt wasn't all that tight. I've been looking at buying cornwell 1/4 impact swivels for my power tools as they don't have the collars but it's $700 for the metric set.

Wow, a lot of that is over my budget. I still appreciate hearing about them and the applications, even if I cannot afford them, it is good information to have. Were the Gearwrench the x-core style? I hear a lot of bad of that design. As of the recent years, I have lost my trust in Gearwrench as a premium brand, so in my search for a set of these sockets, I have not considered their product. Seems your experience supports that as well.

 

[cgrutt]

I actually do not use any HF tools, aside from 1 set torque sticks. While I do not personally own ant ICON tools, I have seen a few and have not been impressed with what I saw for the price they sell for. However, I do get that there is a warranty advantage to many people. It is my opinion though that for the price, I can get better tools without the worry of finding coupons and all that crazy sales stuff.

HOWEVER, in my town we just had a HF open, and I am not one to just not look at a deal. I am passively looking at the Astro 1/2 drive swivel set, 12 to 24 (skipping 20 and 23), at $86. I can appreciate the ICON set having no skips for sure, but I also will admit I will likely never use a 20 or 23 swivel.... my regular sockets of those sizes are never used. So the ICON set is $20 more (after coupon/sale), I personally would pass in favor of Astro at regular price. I am curious, do you see it differently?

I've been buying Snap-on for past 30 years but life and finances changed past several years. I'm not a pro just a DIYer. In past would never have considered made in anything but good ol USA but life changed and I can't afford it anymore. For $100 +/- and lifetime replacement down the road (yeah, foe how long) seems like good value. I did buy a standard 1/2 metric deep set for about $75 to replace a $500 Snap-on set I had to sell for much much less. I can tell you without even using them they are not equivalent and I'd much rather have the Snap-on set. But for a fraction of the cost I may be able to live with it. Maybe. I still prefer made in USA for many reasons. We'll see. Just couldn't buy the Snap-on set if I wanted to so ICON seems like a reasonable alternative.

 

[_brian_]

I've been buying Snap-on for past 30 years but life and finances changed past several years. I'm not a pro just a DIYer. In past would never have considered made in anything but good ol USA but life changed and I can't afford it anymore. For $100 +/- and lifetime replacement down the road (yeah, foe how long) seems like good value. I did buy a standard 1/2 metric deep set for about $75 to replace a $500 Snap-on set I had to sell for much much less. I can tell you without even using them they are not equivalent and I'd much rather have the Snap-on set. But for a fraction of the cost I may be able to live with it. Maybe. I still prefer made in USA for many reasons. We'll see. Just couldn't buy the Snap-on set if I wanted to so ICON seems like a reasonable alternative.

I do not see the made in the USA in the same way. Made in USA does not equal quality by default. In the US, we have a major economical issue, people want to make more and pay less, which does not work. All things equal, if you want a raise, prices will increase (again all things equal). I have many USA Craftsman ratchets that I do not grab first, and while the Western Forge USA Craftsman screwdrivers are of a good quality, I do not grab them first for use as a screwdriver, but more as pry bars as I have better such as Vessel. I am referring to cross point / phillips here as I do not much at all use a flat blade screw driver. I hope we are not taking this thread down this rabbit hole. I am not at all anti-USA made tools, I stopped looking at Craftsman as a desired brand once that changed. However, I do not see that the prices of USA tools can always justify what you receive. Please note this is no argument, just an opinion.

I have used my tools for over 30 years and have learned a few lessons on the way. However, I only have a few Snap-On (including Blue Point) tools that I found to be worth the price tag. The reason I avoid HF is the history of **** tools. I am not in the market for cheap tools, especially high priced cheap tools. I mentioned Astro as I believe in the brand. They are no Snap-On, but I know they put some effort into their products and have a good customer service. If Astro had their product USA made, would it be any better for the increased price tag? I have my doubts.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

A single U-joint at an angle is always out of phase and will wobble badly at speed.
If you use power tools, go for the ball and socket type

 

[cgrutt]

I do not see the made in the USA in the same way. Made in USA does not equal quality by default. In the US, we have a major economical issue, people want to make more and pay less, which does not work. All things equal, if you want a raise, prices will increase (again all things equal). I have many USA Craftsman ratchets that I do not grab first, and while the Western Forge USA Craftsman screwdrivers are of a good quality, I do not grab them first for use as a screwdriver, but more as pry bars as I have better such as Vessel. I am referring to cross point / phillips here as I do not much at all use a flat blade screw driver. I hope we are not taking this thread down this rabbit hole. I am not at all anti-USA made tools, I stopped looking at Craftsman as a desired brand once that changed. However, I do not see that the prices of USA tools can always justify what you receive. Please note this is no argument, just an opinion.

I have used my tools for over 30 years and have learned a few lessons on the way. However, I only have a few Snap-On (including Blue Point) tools that I found to be worth the price tag. The reason I avoid HF is the history of **** tools. I am not in the market for cheap tools, especially high priced cheap tools. I mentioned Astro as I believe in the brand. They are no Snap-On, but I know they put some effort into their products and have a good customer service. If Astro had their product USA made, would it be any better for the increased price tag? I have my doubts.

All good brother. I started buying Snap-on after a USA made Craftsman universal joint exploded under hand pressure and nearly put my best friend's eye out. Haven't had that experience with any Snap-on tools since. I'm not a professional and don't abuse my tools. I never regretted buying Snap-on. That's just me and know there are haters on both sides. USA made Snap-on is good to go in my book. Trying to expand my horizons due to financial circumstances. All I got. Good luck.
Loo

 

[_brian_]

All good brother. I started buying Snap-on after a USA made Craftsman universal joint exploded under hand pressure and nearly put my best friend's eye out. Haven't had that experience with any Snap-on tools since. I'm not a professional and don't abuse my tools. I never regretted buying Snap-on. That's just me and know there are haters on both sides. USA made Snap-on is good to go in my book. Trying to expand my horizons due to financial circumstances. All I got. Good luck. 909-7574

Funny you mention haters. I have NEVER "hated" Snap-On until social media. I started hearing from the guys that have the opinion that if the tool is not Snap-On, that is your problem. On this forum I had a person tell me that I wanted an import tool with a Snap-On warranty, wishing me good luck. To me that statement is far off point. If I want the best warranty, Tekton comes to mind, Snap-On, in my experience, sits under Apex. I would never buy a Snap-On tool for the warranty, I would buy it because the performance speaks for itself. I have the Blue-Point YA8610 caliper winder tool and I will never give it up, but I must say, I purchased it used years ago at $55. I have an OEMTools bigger set with the left and right wind options, and it is for sure cheap in comparison. However, it does work without issues. Having both of those, would I pay full price for the Blue-Point? No. Since I have it would I give it up? No.

 

[cgrutt]

Wasn't referring to you. On interwebz find a lot of opinions. Speaking from experience I've spent a ton of money buying Snap-on. Never regretted it. Ever. In recent years have come to appreciate some tools are functionally equivalent or better for significantly less cost. Won't change my mind that if you happen to buy Snapon you can be pretty much assured it will get the job done and if it doesn't they would replace it with little resistance. Some people don't for whatever reason appreciate that. Life is short do what makes you happy.

 

[_brian_]

Wasn't referring to you. On interwebz find a lot of opinions. Speaking from experience I've spent a ton of money buying Snap-on. Never regretted it. Ever. In recent years have come to appreciate some tools are functionally equivalent or better for significantly less cost. Won't change my mind that if you happen to buy Snapon you can be pretty much assured it will get the job done and if it doesn't they would replace it with little resistance. Some people don't for whatever reason appreciate that. Life is short do what makes you happy.

Oh, for sure. I did not take anything you said as directed to me or in a negative sort of way. I appreciate your comments and input while not judging those who do not want to but the Snap-On stuff for everything.

 

[cgrutt]

This isn't swivel related but all I got. Just bought a 12-24 ICON 1/2 chrome metric socket set. Comparing 19mm ICON to 3/4 Snap-on has no meaningful differences. Of course can't judge strength of steel but physically they seem equivalent.

Weight ICON 182gm SO 184 gm
Length ICON 3.266 in SO 3.261 in
Width ICON 1.019 in SO 1.042 in.
Socket attachment width ICON .509 in SO 0.510 in
Socket fastener width ICON 0.759 in SO 0.762 in
Sidewall ICON 0.129 in SO 0.150 in

Only thing that may be significantly different is the sidewall. Not sure about actual steel strength. Chrome looks similar the SO may be a tad deeper/smoother but for all practical purposes they look the same.

For $75 with tax seems like a good deal...

 

[richfinn]

So there are two basic styles of these sockets. One is the u-joint type as seen on most all chrome sockets and the pin and pinless styles found on most impact versions. My interest is educational here. I have seen plenty of YouTube videos and I have my own experience with both types of these sockets and adapters. I hear from many that you should just skip over the u-joint style and get the other, as the u-joint style just *****. Then I see other YouTube videos where people in shops are using chrome u-joint style sockets on 1/4 drive impacts, both standard 1/4 square drive and 1/4 hex drive. So what is the deal? Do others here have any experience in this?

The UJ type are ok for hand use in confined spaces if you purchace good quality like Snap-On.

The ball/socket style are far better for any kind of power tool use, as they don't bind up as much when run at more extreme angles.

 

[_brian_]

This isn't swivel related but all I got. Just bought a 12-24 ICON 1/2 chrome metric socket set. Comparing 19mm ICON to 3/4 Snap-on has no meaningful differences. Of course can't judge strength of steel but physically they seem equivalent.

Weight ICON 182gm SO 184 gm
Length ICON 3.266 in SO 3.261 in
Width ICON 1.019 in SO 1.042 in.
Socket attachment width ICON .509 in SO 0.510 in
Socket fastener width ICON 0.759 in SO 0.762 in
Sidewall ICON 0.129 in SO 0.150 in

Only thing that may be significantly different is the sidewall. Not sure about actual steel strength. Chrome looks similar the SO may be a tad deeper/smoother but for all practical purposes they look the same.

For $75 with tax seems like a good deal...

I cannot speak from experience here as I do not own anything from the ICON brand, but I can share what I have heard. It seems that the chrome sockets wear out quickly, becoming malformed. In fairness, I have also heard from fewer people that the issue has since been corrected. This information comes from YouTube, from those that used the tools themselves, professionally, and provided their opinions. Obviously anything on YouTube must be taken with caution, however, that opinion seems to be a common and shared one.

For what it is worth, I know that there is a difference in steel used. Snap-On uses a different steel, a CrNiMoB steel on their sockets. HF advertises the ICON sockets as using "chrome moly steel". If you have seen my posts, you likely have the opinion that I dislike Snap-On as well as HF, although I have not really discussed HF to the same degree as Snap-On. When I look at things like this, I try to remove my biases, which is hard for anyone to do. My general disliking of Snap-On is due to the basic benefit-cost ratio. At a certain price point, the received benefits diminish fast and it becomes more novelty, paying a "name brand" premium.

When I compare the companies themselves, Snap-On positions themselves as striving to be the best of the best, setting the gold standard. HF with their ICON line positions themselves to making the best copy of looking just like (and performing in some collaterals) Snap-On at a fraction of the price. I believe HF makes an interesting proposition here, possibly trying to remove the costs associated with the diminishing returns area. If I have a car with a top speed of 200, is it really worth doubling the cost to increase that to 250? For most, no, as the difference will never be used and is a novelty.

My opinion is that I have a disliking to ICON as I feel they are over priced. When you take a good look at their prices, you can find alternatives from brands like Chanellock when you compare their pliers. With the sockets, many seem to like the new Craftsman V-series, which the 12-24 set comes in at ~$65 (no sale or coupon price), including a magnetic socket rail. For a brand that positions themselves as a copycat brand, I don't think the semi-premium prices are appropriate. I wish I had more money, as I would love to try these different brand and tools, but I simply cannot afford to. So for me, I spend my money on what I see as quality based on experience. I say this because brands like ICON might have a stellar product, but I am not able to see this. This is a big reason I post and read here, so I can try to learn from others and their experiences. In turn, I provide mine.

 

[_brian_]

The UJ type are ok for hand use in confined spaces if you purchace good quality like Snap-On.

The ball/socket style are far better for any kind of power tool use, as they don't bind up as much when run at more extreme angles.

My only chrome u-joint swivel sockets are Gearwrench, in the 3/8 size. I will admit, I used the 14mm on my 3/8 impact gun also with a chrome extension. I was removing a braket bolt for the passenger side CV, that retains the bearing on the mid section of that axle. This was the upper most bolt for the bracket, approaching from the passenger side wheel well. I used the Gearwrench 14mm swivel, a Husky USA chrome 15 inch 3/8 extension and a Husky 3/8 impact gun, rated at 250 foot pounds (so nothing crazy powerful). I see no noticeable damage to the extension or the socket, however, this was only one time of misuse and I did not beat on it.

I have some of the u-joint universal adapters for impact, both 3/8 and 1/2 sizes. They loosen up very quickly and just end up flopping around, brands I have are Craftsman USA and Tekton. Those are actually used though, taking the full power of the impact tools they are connected to. They just cannot take the impacting at all. I have only one each 3/8 and 1/2 drive ball/socket style and they are far superior, brand Sunex. 100% agreement there.

 

[Zewnten]

Wow, a lot of that is over my budget. I still appreciate hearing about them and the applications, even if I cannot afford them, it is good information to have. Were the Gearwrench the x-core style? I hear a lot of bad of that design. As of the recent years, I have lost my trust in Gearwrench as a premium brand, so in my search for a set of these sockets, I have not considered their product. Seems your experience supports that as well.

Yeah X-core. Coworker tried the chinese version and they were junk so I bought the USA from Cripe hoping they'd be better quality. The Astro's are supposed to be good for the money, guys seem to warranty them out a lot but they also don't cost that much.