shielded or unshielded network cable

[MerlinsBeard]

I'm planning to have network drops in my shed/mancave for my small shop/hobby room. The electrician has multiple circuit runs between 18" - 24" on the stud wall. I'm looking to run network cable below that and then run 90 degrees up to keystones from a structured media enclosure.

Is there some minimum height for routing cable that I need to be aware of? I've also read anywhere from 6" to 12" separation of parallel network cable runs from power.

I don't have a problem investing in shielded cables if it prevents future issues, though I've never terminated shielded cables before.

I also plan to have fiber routed to network connect the house to the shed with SFP+ capable switch, leaning Microtik right now. I'm thinking about cat 6a for future proofing even though right now it may be considered overkill. I do plan to stream from my NAS, and I do plan to get a better NAS with 10G support down the road. I do plan to set up an "off-site" backup between the house and shed for more robust backup protection (I have almost 6 terabytes of my own handbrake encoded movies, pictures, and music, plus computer backups on my existing NAS, and I'm still running out of space).

I know with shielded cable, there's much more freedom to run cable, but with the extra headaches on the termination end. Leaning towards trueCABLE for network cable, and fs.com for the fiber.

I'm leaning towards not doing any innerduct for the network cable, which is motivation to lean on cat 6a. I will have 1" PVC conduit from basement to shed for the fiber run (which does have a underground run of about 30'). Planning to have a wall mounted open rack in the basement for patch panel, rack mounted switch, probably upgrade to a rackmount NAS.

Any suggestions given my use-case? Trying to think of everything before executing.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

you dont need shielded cable....

 

[ratflinger]

As wyliesdiesels said, don't bother with shielded. I've been in major data centers and large industrial complexes and nobody bothers with it unless you are running cable in a secure facility (DoD or others). At 10G the data centers have switched to fiber anyway. You don't need 10G to stream a NAS, a waste of bandwidth. I'm running everything in my house on 5e & 1G switches and I never see bandwidth issues.

 

[Paul_The_Builder]

The way that ethernet cables are designed with twisted pairs eliminates the need for shielding unless you're in an extreme environment. I'm a low voltage contractor and you'll very rarely see shielded cable, probably less than 1% of the time. Absolutely not necessary for any type of home use, and its a real PITA to terminate well.

 

[ybnormal]

The way that ethernet cables are designed with twisted pairs eliminates the need for shielding unless you're in an extreme environment. I'm a low voltage contractor and you'll very rarely see shielded cable, probably less than 1% of the time. Absolutely not necessary for any type of home use, and its a real PITA to terminate well.

personally, any cable is a PITA to terminate to me. I just buy pre-made cable, plug and play

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The way that ethernet cables are designed with twisted pairs eliminates the need for shielding unless you're in an extreme environment. I'm a low voltage contractor and you'll very rarely see shielded cable, probably less than 1% of the time. Absolutely not necessary for any type of home use, and its a real PITA to terminate well.

Yeah the only time ive seen shielded cable is for microwave radios... it isnt used for regular network drops

 

[theoldwizard1]

Yeah the only time ive seen shielded cable is for microwave radios... it isnt used for regular network drops

Also, IIRC from what little I learned about RFI, most people do NOT terminate the shield correctly anyway. Only ONE END, usually closest to the "system ground point" is terminated. The other is left open. Connecting both grounds creates a ground loop.

 

[CoogarXR]

Like everyone said above, with the tight twists in CAT5 (and even tighter twists in CAT6), shielding is not necessary in just about any home-use application.

 

[jkeyser14]

Also, IIRC from what little I learned about RFI, most people do NOT terminate the shield correctly anyway. Only ONE END, usually closest to the "system ground point" is terminated. The other is left open. Connecting both grounds creates a ground loop.

I have done extensive EMI chamber testing and 99.9% of the time grounding both ends of the shield is far more effective. Ground loops are bad when you have a signal ground that can have different relative voltages on each end of the cable, but shielding that is there for EMI is not meant to be used as a signal ground. It is instead meant to provide the lowest impedence path to ground, so grounding both ends helps with that.

OP: you don't need shielded cable unless you plan to run a high frequency welder nearby.

 

[ycgoat]

My understanding is that RS-485 serial cables typically require Shielded Twisted Pairs (STP) I believe it is to achieve the long distances, but could be wrong. Also access control card readers are going to OSDP which is basically the same as the RS-485.

That being said I have used old existing UTP cables for RS-485 comms at distances <1000' with no problems, but have never tried to use it for longer runs, and instead went with fiber and converters.

As stated in basically al posts above, its not needed for networking from house to garage.

 

[Metal-Marc]

So what is it you're going to run, twisted pairs or fiber?

In between building, it is best to run fiber. It's cheap enough nowadays, and will let you avoid any grounding issues.

Also, 10G is a lot of bandwidth, like a lot. Heck, even 1G is way more than needed for residential use.

 

[mcbane]

I'm planning to have network drops in my shed/mancave for my small shop/hobby room. The electrician has multiple circuit runs between 18" - 24" on the stud wall. I'm looking to run network cable below that and then run 90 degrees up to keystones from a structured media enclosure.

Is there some minimum height for routing cable that I need to be aware of? I've also read anywhere from 6" to 12" separation of parallel network cable runs from power.

I don't have a problem investing in shielded cables if it prevents future issues, though I've never terminated shielded cables before.

I also plan to have fiber routed to network connect the house to the shed with SFP+ capable switch, leaning Microtik right now. I'm thinking about cat 6a for future proofing even though right now it may be considered overkill. I do plan to stream from my NAS, and I do plan to get a better NAS with 10G support down the road. I do plan to set up an "off-site" backup between the house and shed for more robust backup protection (I have almost 6 terabytes of my own handbrake encoded movies, pictures, and music, plus computer backups on my existing NAS, and I'm still running out of space).

I know with shielded cable, there's much more freedom to run cable, but with the extra headaches on the termination end. Leaning towards trueCABLE for network cable, and fs.com for the fiber.

I'm leaning towards not doing any innerduct for the network cable, which is motivation to lean on cat 6a. I will have 1" PVC conduit from basement to shed for the fiber run (which does have a underground run of about 30'). Planning to have a wall mounted open rack in the basement for patch panel, rack mounted switch, probably upgrade to a rackmount NAS.

Any suggestions given my use-case? Trying to think of everything before executing.

If you will be running an older TIG welder with high frequency arc starter the shielded cable can save you some trouble. You will want to ensure that both ends are grounded.

 

[dcg9381]

you dont need shielded cable....

How much protecting does the shielding / grounding provide in the event of a nearby lightening strike? I've had substantial damage twice due to long runs of unshielded Cat5. Enough voltage to burn the terminated ends. Dunno if shielding would make a difference.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Also, IIRC from what little I learned about RFI, most people do NOT terminate the shield correctly anyway. Only ONE END, usually closest to the "system ground point" is terminated. The other is left open. Connecting both grounds creates a ground loop.

shielding and grounding in a cable are 2 different things.... the shielding can be terminated on both ends. grounding should only be done on one side like you said especially if its for audio...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

How much protecting does the shielding / grounding provide in the event of a nearby lightening strike? I've had substantial damage twice due to long runs of unshielded Cat5. Enough voltage to burn the terminated ends. Dunno if shielding would make a difference.

would not make a difference for lightning induced currents.

you need to make sure your GES is up to snuff.

what was the pathway for entry? phone line internet or cable modem?

the grounding at the DEMARC is probably not very good either. also install lightning arrestors...

if everything is at the same potential then the lightning induced currents usually dont burn stuff up as it finds its path to earth via the proper route

 

[dcg9381]

what was the pathway for entry? phone line internet or cable modem?

the grounding at the DEMARC is probably not very good either. also install lightning arrestors...

if everything is at the same potential then the lightning induced currents usually dont burn stuff up as it finds its path to earth via the proper route

Nearby strikes. I doubt it was cable modem, as that device was fine. I had fairly substantial runs of CAT5 (at the time) runs all over the attic, etc.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Nearby strikes. I doubt it was cable modem, as that device was fine. I had fairly substantial runs of CAT5 (at the time) runs all over the attic, etc.

could be powerline entry then...

 

[Innovate1]

12" separation from power wires where they run parallel is good. Where you have to cross it's best to do it at 90 degrees but if you need to feed both cables through the same hole in a joist it isn't a big deal - best avoided but if they run parallel for a few inches it isn't going to do much. Avoid low voltage copper between buildings if at all possible and use fiber. If you have to do copper put a surge supressor on both ends and ground it with short leads to the building ground.

 

[Innovate1]

My understanding is that RS-485 serial cables typically require Shielded Twisted Pairs (STP) I believe it is to achieve the long distances, but could be wrong. Also access control card readers are going to OSDP which is basically the same as the RS-485.

That being said I have used old existing UTP cables for RS-485 comms at distances <1000' with no problems, but have never tried to use it for longer runs, and instead went with fiber and converters.

As stated in basically al posts above, its not needed for networking from house to garage.

RS485 doesn't require shielded cable. It's differential like ethernet and uses twisted cable but doesn't have the isolation transformers in the equipment at the ends so while it can tolerate more common mode signal interference that single ended signals it is not as tolerant as ethernet. I have done some work with RS485 and none of it has used shielded cable.

 

[MerlinsBeard]

So what is it you're going to run, twisted pairs or fiber?

In between building, it is best to run fiber. It's cheap enough nowadays, and will let you avoid any grounding issues.

Also, 10G is a lot of bandwidth, like a lot. Heck, even 1G is way more than needed for residential use.

It’s fiber from basement to shed, and copper in the shed/basement for wiring to keystone jacks. I know 10G is beyond my needs now, but the future is hard to predict. No one needs more than 640k, right?

 

[RPH]

We had to use shielded on the induction equipment. The noise generated by the magnetic field can kill about anything.

 

[skeer]

I'm late to the thread but Ill agree with most of the others. After being in IT for over 20 years and running many feet of cable.. no you don;t need shielded. I mean, unless you plan on wrapping the drop feeder around a fluorescent light ballast a few times. lol.

 

[haveissues]

Also in IT and have ran may thousands of feet of cable. Don't bother with shielded cable. Do bother with a good quality, solid copper cable (no copper clad aluminum). I would stick with cat6 over 6a, especially for what are likely to be short runs unless your building is massive. Remember that high end cable with ****** termination will give you a ****** cable.

Getting decent switches, especially poe is a pita still.

I like a lot of mikrotik hardware, although be aware that there is a bit of a learning curve.

 

[skeer]

Imo Netgears for un-managed are bullet proof. I also like Microtik.

 

[dcg9381]

could be powerline entry then...

I'd agree, but it zapped an isolated (DC) gate setup that had POE network equipment on it also. Not connected to AC power.

 

[MFortie]

Having spent the last 20+ years as a RCDD designing structured wiring systems for commercial, municipal, and educational environments I have never specified shielded cabling for a project.

 

[ratflinger]

It’s fiber from basement to shed, and copper in the shed/basement for wiring to keystone jacks. I know 10G is beyond my needs now, but the future is hard to predict. No one needs more than 640k, right?

True, but why bother with the expense? Run Cat6 cable and buy 1G switches (cheap). In the future, if needed, you can replace the 1G with 10G. By that time the 10G switches will be dirt cheap. Anything faster will probably be fiber based switches, with some blazing WiFi for the actual devices. There's now starting to be lots of commercial devices that are only WiFi, no RJ45 jack at all.

 

[skeer]

Ratflingers comment has merit. The added upfront expense of 10G will outweigh you're home internet bandwidth (depending on locale) For the next 20+ years at least. And unless you are doing massive file transfers internally it'll be of no use except bragging rights. Now if you can get a smooth deal on the fiber itself, go for 1G gbics on the endpoint switches. Remember though, whatever you go with, if you pull one cable.. it's best to pull two.

 

[theoldwizard1]

shielding and grounding in a cable are 2 different things.... the shielding can be terminated on both ends. grounding should only be done on one side like you said especially if its for audio...

Not if you are trying to prevent RFI from the wires inside !

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Not if you are trying to prevent RFI from the wires inside !

if its an audio circuit, the ground is used as part of the circuit and has nothing to do with shielding from RFI... the shielding would be used to prevent RFI....but if its a balanced mic cable its a little more complicated....

 

[theoldwizard1]

if its an audio circuit, the ground is used as part of the circuit and has nothing to do with shielding from RFI... the shielding would be used to prevent RFI....but if its a balanced mic cable its a little more complicated....

Not audio. Low voltage sensing.

 

[Max]

True, but why bother with the expense? Run Cat6 cable and buy 1G switches (cheap). In the future, if needed, you can replace the 1G with 10G. By that time the 10G switches will be dirt cheap. Anything faster will probably be fiber based switches, with some blazing WiFi for the actual devices. There's now starting to be lots of commercial devices that are only WiFi, no RJ45 jack at all.

You make some good points. Note though that fiber won't have issues related to lightning (I've already lost a protected cable modem to lightning) and that fiber can be put in the same trench with other things (I think gas and 120/240, but the sparkies will know for sure).

 

[MerlinsBeard]

True, but why bother with the expense? Run Cat6 cable and buy 1G switches (cheap). In the future, if needed, you can replace the 1G with 10G. By that time the 10G switches will be dirt cheap. Anything faster will probably be fiber based switches, with some blazing WiFi for the actual devices. There's now starting to be lots of commercial devices that are only WiFi, no RJ45 jack at all.

My beef with WiFi is that the performance totally depends on your environment and the time of day.

I'm in a relatively crowded 1/4 acre lot housing development and during primetime there is a significant performance hit if you're doing anything with moving significant data around. I avoid uploading wireless to the NAS anymore at night unless super late, too frustrating. Even if you use tools like InSSIDer to bounce around to underused WiFi channels, I've not been able to get consistent performance to not get irked eventually. There's too many engineers in my development. YMMV

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My beef with WiFi is that the performance totally depends on your environment and the time of day.

I'm in a relatively crowded 1/4 acre lot housing development and during primetime there is a significant performance hit if you're doing anything with moving significant data around. I avoid uploading wireless to the NAS anymore at night unless super late, too frustrating. Even if you use tools like InSSIDer to bounce around to underused WiFi channels, I've not been able to get consistent performance to not get irked eventually. There's too many engineers in my development. YMMV

thats because your AP is on the same channel as your neighbors APs. most likely 2.4Ghz

you should try 5Ghz... less crowded and more channels available