Need 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 MM wrenches. What are you using?
- Thread starter ForrestT
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American Locomotive
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I bought some Wright Grips recently. Nicest wrenches I've ever held, for sure. About half the cost of Snap-On (which I've also held).
I have been buying Williams wrenches to cover the gaps I had. They have a US made line as well as a Taiwan. IIRC if the part number starts with a letter it's US made and if it starts with a number it's Taiwan but double check. They offer up to 50MM in metric combo and 3 1/2" in SAE combo.
KnurledNut
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rust in the eye
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Have you ever needed these sizes?
I suspect "round out" is the operative phrase here. I'm well aware of the skipped size phobia many here have. If that's your case you won't be satisfied with anything other than building upon your existing set with the same brand.
My personal experience(auto work) is that the 22 and 24 mm are often used, the others will collect dust, unless of course you frequently polish them.
I don't think you'll find much need for the other sizes and I'll guess that you may already have a 7/8" wrench on hand. I've yet to run into a 22mm fastener that a 7/8" wrench won't loosen or tighten.
23mm? I've been servicing cars and doing construction work for many years, NEVER had the need for that size. If I did a 15/16" would likely do the job. I need to ask around my wrenching friends to see if anyone even owns a 23mm. Maybe some tool truck brand loyalist that has $100 invested in one.
For practicality sake buy yourself a 22 & a 24
OH! Another thing learned from doing is that the larger the fastener the less finnicky the fit so inch size substitutions and "lesser" brands often do just fine in those circumstances.
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jsmeece
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I am still scratching my head why this is still being discussed? The OP can get those 5 wrenches, 4 being old stock but still USA made, from Cripe for $22.75 plus shipping! 
No way would I buy import for twice the price just for them to match.
No way would I buy import for twice the price just for them to match.This is great information. Thank you.
Bockscar
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Piggy back on this ...Wrights ot Williams if you're looking for reasonable USA
driftpin
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I had Sears Shop Your Way points and a Craftsman return for credit, current model 'not-available,' but full purchase credit OK for me, so I bought these combo wrenches, 20-24mm, yes made in China. I used up my points/credit, so no out of pocket $ to take possession.
Craftsman made in China wrenches have at least three grades. This is the best type. I would love to see some comparison with others. I have this too.I had Sears Shop Your Way points and a Craftsman return for credit, current model 'not-available,' but full purchase credit OK for me, so I bought these combo wrenches, 20-24mm, yes made in China. I used up my points/credit, so no out of pocket $ to take possession.
mslim
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I have a set of Stahlwille combos missing the 21mm. I only need it for pulling the float bowls on my Dellorto carbs on my 75 BMW motorcycle. I had bought a set of Tekton SAE combos that seem to work pretty good so I bought the 21mm for about $8.
rooster59
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7/8 is .009" bigger than 22mm.
15/16 is .007" smaller than 24mm.
27mm purt near equal 1 - 1/16.
15/16 is .007" smaller than 24mm.
27mm purt near equal 1 - 1/16.
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Thank you all for the lessons, advice, and your experience. Settled on just adding 24mm Kobalt from Cripe. Had 22mm Craftsman USA and 20mm and 21mm craftsman chinesium from a-ag series when Danaher off shored them. Good enough to use in a pinch. No need to add expense.
Gebirgekind
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Looks like you're sorted, but just adding a +1 for Stahlwille and Wright. I use the German for metric and USA for inch. Stahlwille is pretty affordable from misterworker.com and they always have some sort of discount, they're great wrenches and more comfortable in the hand than Snap-on or Proto imo.
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joel63
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dnschmidt
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If somebody makes a better wrench than Stahlwille I haven't found it. As I've mentioned many times when I asked TOPTUL why they copied Stahlwille their answer was: "They are the world standard." Seemed like a good answer to me.Looks like you're sorted, but just adding a +1 for Stahlwille and Wright. I use the German for metric and USA for inch. Stahlwille is pretty affordable from misterworker.com and they always have some sort of discount, they're great wrenches and more comfortable in the hand than Snap-on or Proto imo.
Hazet and Stahlwille are IMO as durable as wrenches can be. Yes Snap On may charge more, and some others like Nepros maybe too, but in terms of performance a Stahlwille set is as good as it gets, the Snap On or the Nepros just have a much more shiny finish (but for wrenches I kind of like the matte chrome, and the Stahlwille ones are very nice univorm roto-finished satin).
Another one that kind of copies Stahlwille is the Japanese KTC.
Love Japanese tool catalogues, they also add some engineering insight for why they choose some design features.
Dakotadadv8
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F-22 where are the Hazet and Stahlwille wrenches made, they look interesting and the prices are reasonable if made in Germany with good materials? May look into them if needing larger sizes above 22mm.
Dave455
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All the Hazet and Stahlwille wrenches are made in Germany, EXCEPT for the ratcheting combination wrenches.
Dave455
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I like Stahlwille. I find them very nice to use, and they are decent quality. Their No.23 box ends are my “go to”, I love ‘em, and the satin finish stands up to wear much better than most polished finishes.
Snap On are better.
That’s not a statement I make lightly, but is my opinion based on 20 plus years of using both.
The finish inside the jaws is slightly better on the Snap On.
I’ve seen the open end of a Stahlwille No 14 spread trying to remove a rusted track rod end. A Snap On removed it.
The regular Stahlwille don’t meet many of the aerospace specs for hand tools. Not GGG-W-636 E, Not SBAC TS48, Not their military equivalents, none! Snap On wrenches do.
Stahlwille offer a special “aerospace” range that do meet the specs, made from different steel. They are lovely tools, but they’re Snap On money.
Not all Stahlwille tools are equal. I have a set of ratcheting box ends that I bought some years back, and frankly, they’re a joke. The middle ”spacer” strip is plastic and the things feel like toys. The Snap On versions that I replaced them are superb.
Don’t get me wrong, I have no complaints about the Stahlwille, and to be 95% of Snap On quality for perhaps 30% of the cost is an awesome deal. But if you compare total quality, without reference to cost, Snap On win it.
dnschmidt
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These don't count as really nobody but Taiwan makes ratcheting box wrenches themselves except Snap-On. Other than this one point I accept your other arguments.
n8n
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I believe SK sells combination wrenches in every size with no skips. However I have to ask, what would you use 20mm or 23mm for? Those aren't standard head sizes for DIN, JIS, or ANSI/ISO. Now I do have a 20mm socket for breaking rusted 21mm fasteners but I can't see a need for the wrench. If you did need them I would think 25/32 or 13/16 would work in a pinch for 20mm. (15/16 is 23.8mm so there really isn't a super good equivalent there as 29/32 I don't believe was ever a standard size for anything either)
n8n
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There are three different standards and what you will need will depend on what you're working on. Basically older German (DIN), Euro/newer German (ANSI/ISO) and Japanese (JIS)
Bolt Depot - Metric Bolt Head/Wrench Size
www.boltdepot.com
Issue I have is that for years I worked on only old German (and American, but irrelevant to this discussion) cars so when grabbing a handful of wrenches I always grab 10/13/17/19/22 and then I realize I'm sadly old even though I don't think of myself as such, and I should have actually grabbed 10/13/16/18/21 instead. Heck, years ago I don't think I even owned a 16mm combination wrench.
Also, looking at the chart reminds me that to replace the ball joints on a Rabbit or Scirocco you need M7 bolts. Only application I've ever had for a 11mm wrench/socket. Useless s**t that pops into your head... I also remember there being a great independent hardware store about 10 miles from my parents' house that had M7 8.8 hardware right in the bolt bins. Sadly that place has been out of business for years.
joel63
Well-known member
From what I understand, 16 and 18 mm have come into use more in the last 8 - 10 years, replacing the 17 and 19 mm.There are three different standards and what you will need will depend on what you're working on. Basically older German (DIN), Euro/newer German (ANSI/ISO) and Japanese (JIS)
Bolt Depot - Metric Bolt Head/Wrench Size
Issue I have is that for years I worked on only old German (and American, but irrelevant to this discussion) cars so when grabbing a handful of wrenches I always grab 10/13/17/19/22 and then I realize I'm sadly old even though I don't think of myself as such, and I should have actually grabbed 10/13/16/18/21 instead. Heck, years ago I don't think I even owned a 16mm combination wrench.
Also, looking at the chart reminds me that to replace the ball joints on a Rabbit or Scirocco you need M7 bolts. Only application I've ever had for a 11mm wrench/socket. Useless s**t that pops into your head... I also remember there being a great independent hardware store about 10 miles from my parents' house that had M7 8.8 hardware right in the bolt bins. Sadly that place has been out of business for years.
Bottom line, we now have to keep track of more sizes. And sockets too.
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n8n
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Along these lines, last year I bought an Astro tailpipe expander. The hex is 28mm...? Why? 27mm/1-1/16" was too weak? So I had to go order a new socket...
n8n
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Why would I? There is no sears to warranty them, gear wrench and Harbor Freight are better value
joel63
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Dave455
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Actually, there are four different standards (well, more than four, but four in current use). Bolt Depot got it wrong!There are three different standards and what you will need will depend on what you're working on. Basically older German (DIN), Euro/newer German (ANSI/ISO) and Japanese (JIS)
Bolt Depot - Metric Bolt Head/Wrench Size
Issue I have is that for years I worked on only old German (and American, but irrelevant to this discussion) cars so when grabbing a handful of wrenches I always grab 10/13/17/19/22 and then I realize I'm sadly old even though I don't think of myself as such, and I should have actually grabbed 10/13/16/18/21 instead. Heck, years ago I don't think I even owned a 16mm combination wrench.
Also, looking at the chart reminds me that to replace the ball joints on a Rabbit or Scirocco you need M7 bolts. Only application I've ever had for a 11mm wrench/socket. Useless s**t that pops into your head... I also remember there being a great independent hardware store about 10 miles from my parents' house that had M7 8.8 hardware right in the bolt bins. Sadly that place has been out of business for years.
ANSI and ISO are not the same, although they are similar.
ANSI uses a 15mm bolt head on a 10mm bolt, ISO uses 16mm.
M7 bolts were standard (although little used) under the DIN system, but I seem to recall that they are not standard under ISO.
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n8n
Well-known member
yeah but this one was just (redacted) stupid. And even though I live in a decidedly urban area, imagine the look on the NAPA counter guy's face when I asked him if he had a 28mm impact socket... had to order a Sunex one from Amazon, and put off my repair a couple days. Had I thought about it more I might have just carefully ground the hex down to 27mm. Why would you choose a hex size that literally nobody else uses that is 1mm larger than one that is very common and even better has a nearly perfect fractional equivalent?
ricleh
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I have Snapon and Stahlwille to 36mm and Hazet to 46mm in combination wrenches. I have never had an issue with any of them.
Dave455
Well-known member
Correct!From what I understand, 16 and 18 mm have come into use more in the last 8 - 10 years, replacing the 17 and 19 mm.
Bottom line, we now have to keep track of more sizes. And sockets too.
The the theory is that ISO sizes (16/18) will gradually become the standard, but I’m still seeing lots of the “older” ones (17/19) even on new products.
I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for this…!
Dave455
Well-known member
I should also have mentioned that I actually prefer my metric wrenches to be in a different finish from all the others.
I’m somewhat unfortunate in that I work on things with fasteners in BS sizes, as well as both SAE and metric - sometimes even all three on the same machine…!
Faced with a bench full of wrenches, it’s incredibly helpful if everything Metric is satin or matte, while BS and SAE are polished!
n8n
Well-known member
my 2009 BMW is definitely using the new ISO sizes, FWIW.
No doubt. I was surprised the first time I worked on an E90 and had to use 16mm and 18mm wrenches and sockets. I believe brake caliper mounting bolts, but there have been others.
You probably know this, but the front brake bleeders use 11mm wrench & rears use 9mm. I typically use a reversible ratcheting wrench for the bleeders.
Oddball wrench sizes came out to play on these cars.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
The 16mm is European and the 18mm is American particularly FORD.From what I understand, 16 and 18 mm have come into use more in the last 8 - 10 years, replacing the 17 and 19 mm.
Bottom line, we now have to keep track of more sizes. And sockets too.
ThePostman
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Wrightgrip 2.0s 7-24mm set is great. Beyond those, Gearwrench XL in zero offset with flex ratcheting end see a good bit of use. Besides set 86126, I have 21, 22, and 24mm in the same variety, but they are 72 tooth, I use them a lot for alignments. The only time I've used a 20mm is for swollen and screwed up things. 23mm again swollen or fouled up things, or a Mazda differential check plug