Beat to death I know, need an advanced scan tool

[psu927]

I have trouble reading, sorting and processing through a lot of information, so I was hoping you guys could clear some muddy waters. I have been getting into much more advanced repairs for myself, friends and family her at my home shop. I have been getting by with my cheap OBD2 adapter and torque pro, and also have some VX diag stuff (Ford IDS and GM TechII/MDS). Both of those stop at year 2014, which is really starting to limit me.

I am looking at some if the newer scan tools, possibly with programming capability. I know I for sure want coding ability.
I don't know that i care about subscription cost, as long as the tool works 100% up to the year the current subscriptions expire, although it could be a deciding factor if models are close. I am willing to spend upwards of $2250, however if a cheaper tool will do what I need it to, that is the route I'd like to take. Here are a few things I am currently running into that need the tool to do

*Obvious simple code reading/clearing and live data
*Need to do a transmission relearn on a 2013 Subaru
*Need to do a CAM position sensor relearn on a 2015 Town and Country minivan
*Need to do ABS bleed procedures on several vehicles
*Need to reset adaptive shift points on a 2014 Suburban
*Need to operate an EVAP system (purge valve) on an 08 chevy for a smoke test
*Need to perform forced regen on newer diesel engines
*need to replace an airbag module on a 2014 suburban
*need to command a fuel pump on an 06 F350 (clone IDS does this, but want the bi-directional control on the newer tool)

Just a small sample. What about programming? I understand some models have the J2534 pass through, and that programming requires a manufacturer subscription. Are these tools capable of a wide range of vehicle programming? (I see some seem limited to just BMW)

East of use depends on cost, I would prefer a newer OS, and possibly bluetooth for ease of use but if I can get an older hardwire model for half price, it would be hard to justify the convenience.

Scope features, I want to add and learn more auto oscilloscope diagnosing techniques, I can purchase a stand alone for this in the future, but would spend a bit more for a unit that had some capability.

TPMS stuff, I have tire machines and get into a fair amount of tire work, would be nice to program TPMS sensors, however it looks like a lot of guys go with a dedicated tool for this. Once again would spend a little more for the capability.

 

[toolenthusiast]

You can do most or all of those things for a lot less than $2,250. This will leave you a lot of budget for TPMS tools:



Are you sure the Suburban SDM isn’t just plug-n-play?

 

[psu927]

I figured as much, just hard to differentiate features between models

 

[tarmy]

Can’t go wrong with Autel or Launch…just got to get the one with all the tools you need. My Autel has paid for itself many times over.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Based on what you're talking about programming wise, buy a remote program setup from OPUS/drewtech and just pay them to do the work. It's like 2k, plus the laptop, they do all the ******** and charge by the flash. And a CLEAN power supply, not just a battery charger. If you're just doing one make, a Mongoose cable or two may make sense.

You need a tool to program sensors to do TPMS work, plus a regular scan tool.

$2250 is getting a used snap on tool, likely with a 2 or 4 channel scope. The same price will buy a solid autel/launch/topdon tool from a US market approved vender, not EBAY/amazon stuff, with money to spare.

What is your intention for using the scope? You can get a decent tool from snap on with guided component test for some training. You can buy an AES wave Uscope too.


If it were my $$$? Try to find a used fairly current snap on for 2-4 channel scope and guided component test, and troubleshooter. Use remaining $$$ to buy topdon Pheonix lite 2 for $850. Send TPMS to the the tire store, programming is approx $3-4k sunk cost. May be worth farming out, IDK.

The only stuff you need current software for is legitimately bypassing the fiat/Chrysler secure gateway. Topdon has 2 years free updates, autel is typically 1 year.

 

[FSUwelder1212]

for what you want I would look for a used snap on w/ 2 channel scope functionality, but pay attention to the software revision to get the newest updates you can. I bought my modis edge on ebay updated to 20.4 in excellent condition for $1150. As far as programming you will need either a J box which is $$$ (id buy a cardaq, steer clear of Autel's J box if you do much GM) and subs to factory software. The other option is to look at some of the autel models that have remote expert (I'm not sure if those that have it are in your price range though) and you pay someone to remotely program via your scan tool, personally this makes the most sense as you're not on the hook for all the overhead costs associated with programming and it's pay as you go. However, I'm not a huge fan of autel. I found I primarily program GM so I just bought a mongoose cable, and programming functionality is pretty reasonable from GM at $45 per VIN for 2 years updates for all modules.

I forgot about TPMS, buy an Autel TS508, it's pretty much the industry standard for TPMS tools and will do everything you need.

 

[psu927]

Based on what you're talking about programming wise, buy a remote program setup from OPUS/drewtech and just pay them to do the work. It's like 2k, plus the laptop, they do all the ******** and charge by the flash. And a CLEAN power supply, not just a battery charger. If you're just doing one make, a Mongoose cable or two may make sense.

You need a tool to program sensors to do TPMS work, plus a regular scan tool.

$2250 is getting a used snap on tool, likely with a 2 or 4 channel scope. The same price will buy a solid autel/launch/topdon tool from a US market approved vender, not EBAY/amazon stuff, with money to spare.

What is your intention for using the scope? You can get a decent tool from snap on with guided component test for some training. You can buy an AES wave Uscope too.


If it were my $$$? Try to find a used fairly current snap on for 2-4 channel scope and guided component test, and troubleshooter. Use remaining $$$ to buy topdon Pheonix lite 2 for $850. Send TPMS to the the tire store, programming is approx $3-4k sunk cost. May be worth farming out, IDK.

The only stuff you need current software for is legitimately bypassing the fiat/Chrysler secure gateway. Topdon has 2 years free updates, autel is typically 1 year.

Great info, thank you. Great idea on the drew technologies, I actually just looked into it and they will send you all of the required hardware and software for free, and just charge you $125 per programming event. (plus manufacturer fees). This seems like a no brainer.

My intentions for the scope initially are to better diagnose auto problems and be a better mechanic and not a "parts installer". But mind you this is all in my home shop, I do not do this professionally.

One thing you said I need clarification, why do you say TPMS is 3 to 4k sunk cost when the autel TS508 that was mentioned above is $270?

 

[psu927]

for what you want I would look for a used snap on w/ 2 channel scope functionality, but pay attention to the software revision to get the newest updates you can. I bought my modis edge on ebay updated to 20.4 in excellent condition for $1150. As far as programming you will need either a J box which is $$$ (id buy a cardaq, steer clear of Autel's J box if you do much GM) and subs to factory software. The other option is to look at some of the autel models that have remote expert (I'm not sure if those that have it are in your price range though) and you pay someone to remotely program via your scan tool, personally this makes the most sense as you're not on the hook for all the overhead costs associated with programming and it's pay as you go. However, I'm not a huge fan of autel. I found I primarily program GM so I just bought a mongoose cable, and programming functionality is pretty reasonable from GM at $45 per VIN for 2 years updates for all modules.

I forgot about TPMS, buy an Autel TS508, it's pretty much the industry standard for TPMS tools and will do everything you need.

What does a snap on provide, that the china manufacturers don't?

 

[psu927]

I am looking hard at the Launch X431 PAD V, which I can get for $1,800. I was also looking at the LAUNCH X431 PRO3S+, and the Topdon Phoenix Plus, is it worth the jump to the PAD V? I was very interested in the Topdon Smart, but it is on backorder most places and I would like to get a tool by early next week for a few things I need to do.

EDIT upon further review it seems most of the launch products sold on Amazon are Euro models and it doesn't seem wise to purchase launch at least from amazon, which is a bit disappointing.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Great info, thank you. Great idea on the drew technologies, I actually just looked into it and they will send you all of the required hardware and software for free, and just charge you $125 per programming event. (plus manufacturer fees). This seems like a no brainer.

My intentions for the scope initially are to better diagnose auto problems and be a better mechanic and not a "parts installer". But mind you this is all in my home shop, I do not do this professionally.

One thing you said I need clarification, why do you say TPMS is 3 to 4k sunk cost when the autel TS508 that was mentioned above is $270?

Sorry, I didn't make it clear.

Programming would be a 3-4k cost as a ballpark if youre buying a jbox and a laptop and doing it yourself. I suggested shipping tpms to a tire store and not bothering. Since you have the tire machine and are making the sale there, your perspective may be different. As the tech, it is often a fools errand vs the pay. Nobody wants to pay for actually diagnosing the system. "Chirping" them is not a diagnosis. Then you change 1 sensor on a car from 2005 with low battery codes for two other sensors as well, and then you get a WAITER COMEBACK ticket since you "didn't fix it". As a solo guy,you may not experience this,but I am beyond jaded to TPMS. As I'm sure you can tell. LOL

 

[psu927]

Sorry, I didn't make it clear.

Programming would be a 3-4k cost as a ballpark if youre buying a jbox and a laptop and doing it yourself. I suggested shipping tpms to a tire store and not bothering. Since you have the tire machine and are making the sale there, your perspective may be different. As the tech, it is often a fools errand vs the pay. Nobody wants to pay for actually diagnosing the system. "Chirping" them is not a diagnosis. Then you change 1 sensor on a car from 2005 with low battery codes for two other sensors as well, and then you get a WAITER COMEBACK ticket since you "didn't fix it". As a solo guy,you may not experience this,but I am beyond jaded to TPMS. As I'm sure you can tell. LOL

That makes sense. Just as an update, JBtools had the Topdon Phoenix Smart on sale with a few nice freebies, so I jumped on it. I actually called AESwave, and they price matched and took off the cost of one of the free ad-ons. So I got it for a great price with a free battery tester. Hoping this is a buy once-cry once type deal.

 

[FSUwelder1212]

What does a snap on provide, that the china manufacturers don't?

The functions snap on lists actually work... There is benefit to having both. Snap-On is old reliable, the functions and data it supports always work, it also has better graphing, and the modis (I think Triton is the new version) has a 2 channel scope. I don't think you are going to find anything else in your price range with a scope. Snap-on also is the king of older domestics. With the chinese scanners such as Autel and Launch and its derivatives (Topdon, thinkcar, etc.) you'll find many times functions they claim to have simply don't work or aren't available on the vehicle you're working on (if you deal with late model duramaxes at all you will find almost none of the emissions functions work on the chinese tools, I suspect the same goes for Cummins and Powerstroke as well), however, there is benefit to having them because they do support functions/data the snap-on doesn't. Autel/Launch also have WAY better Euro coverage than Snap-On. I just do side work and I have the Snap-On Modis Edge, Diagzone (bootleg launch), and a VCX nano with GDS 2, as well as a thinkdiag 2 for portability which is really an incredible tool for the money. No scan tool does everything, you will find it valuable to have multiple. All that said, I think you would likely be best suited with a Modis/Triton as your first scanner, especially if you want a scope.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

The functions snap on lists actually work... There is benefit to having both. Snap-On is old reliable, the functions and data it supports always work, it also has better graphing, and the modis (I think Triton is the new version) has a 2 channel scope. I don't think you are going to find anything else in your price range with a scope. Snap-on also is the king of older domestics. With the chinese scanners such as Autel and Launch and its derivatives (Topdon, thinkcar, etc.) you'll find many times functions they claim to have simply don't work or aren't available on the vehicle you're working on (if you deal with late model duramaxes at all you will find almost none of the emissions functions work on the chinese tools, I suspect the same goes for Cummins and Powerstroke as well), however, there is benefit to having them because they do support functions/data the snap-on doesn't. Autel/Launch also have WAY better Euro coverage than Snap-On. I just do side work and I have the Snap-On Modis Edge, Diagzone (bootleg launch), and a VCX nano with GDS 2, as well as a thinkdiag 2 for portability which is really an incredible tool for the money. No scan tool does everything, you will find it valuable to have multiple. All that said, I think you would likely be best suited with a Modis/Triton as your first scanner, especially if you want a scope.

Ol' Reliable, that's perfect.

The snap on tests basically always work, and the PIDs are basically always good. Yup, sometimes EVAP pressure is inverted and reads positive pressure under vacuum. But mostly the tools are reliable. Their hardware is considered more rugged than autel tablets.


The snap on scope also has guided component tests for new users, and as circuit description. Need an ECM pinout for a 2008 cobalt? They have it, built into the scope. Troubleshooter holds tips and pattern failures for pre "in the cloud/internet" era vehicles as far as identifying which ABS module is on this car, firing orders, cylinder bank layout, etc.

 

[FSUwelder1212]

Ol' Reliable, that's perfect.

The snap on tests basically always work, and the PIDs are basically always good. Yup, sometimes EVAP pressure is inverted and reads positive pressure under vacuum. But mostly the tools are reliable. Their hardware is considered more rugged than autel tablets.


The snap on scope also has guided component tests for new users, and as circuit description. Need an ECM pinout for a 2008 cobalt? They have it, built into the scope. Troubleshooter holds tips and pattern failures for pre "in the cloud/internet" era vehicles as far as identifying which ABS module is on this car, firing orders, cylinder bank layout, etc.

I forgot to mention that, I thought guided component test was a gimmick, just like fast track, troubleshooter, or the other **** on snap ons scanners. However, I was wrong, guided component test is SO nice to have, it’s basically service data integrated into the scan tool and really is a stand out feature of snap ons scan tools.