Problems Making Flares with Mastercool 71745 Tool

[yb7tt3wm]

I recently bought a used Mastercool 71745 kit for the purposed of making my own flares on nickle copper lines for a project this summer. I'm intending to replace all of the brake and fuel lines on one of my cars. The other day, I tried making some test double flares on some 3/16 nickle copper, using the tool. I made 5 flares and not a single one turned out well. The core problem is that the fittings don't slide all of the way over the flare. I'll upload some pictures of the flares. I'm no expert with this tool but it appears that when I was making the flare, the tubing material "squeezed" into the crack between where the two dies meet. Hopefully the pictures show this.
I will add that the die appears dirty and/or worn down. Maybe I need to clean/replace the die? Also, I was using a plumbing tool to deburr the tubing. Maybe I need to replace that with a brake line deburring tool? Can anybody help me identify where my problem is?

Thanks!
Bryan

 

[Certified Drunk]

Try putting a little oil on the die's.

 

[ToolPolisher]

It's the dies that hold the line.

Either adjust how much clamping force you're applying to not introduce those burrs on the line or sand them flat when you're done making the flare.

 

[LXCam]

The clamps need to be clean in order to grip the tubing. And it’s a dab of lube on the die helps. One of the pictures looks like the tubing didn’t get deburred and that little bit of lip forced the flare off to the side. One of the other pictures looks like it was extended a bit too much past the die.

Btw, I had the same learning curve with mine.

 

[theoldwizard1]

On NiCopp, try on of those cheap Chinese flare tools. Or better yet, and "on car" one. Sold by various companies.

 

[yb7tt3wm]

Thank you, all, for your input! I'll clean the dies, try some lube, try a different deburring tool and tweak the force.

 

[joel_400]

I will say that the cheapo flaring tools work best with the NiCop line in my experience. I was trying to make some gm fuel lines with the NiCop and had a heck of a time not crushing it. Used the regular steel line it worked flawlessly. Even just double flares turn out better with an old fashioned tool! Haha. Just my two cents.
Joel

 

[Wrench97]

Make sure you are not mixing up die halves and using 1 din(bubble) and 1 45 degree.

 

[yb7tt3wm]

I will say that the cheapo flaring tools work best with the NiCop line in my experience. I was trying to make some gm fuel lines with the NiCop and had a heck of a time not crushing it. Used the regular steel line it worked flawlessly. Even just double flares turn out better with an old fashioned tool! Haha. Just my two cents.
Joel

Are you saying that you don't feel the Mastercool flaring tool works well with copper nickle lines? Boy, I hope that isn't the case. I spent a lot of money on this kit!

 

[LXCam]

Are you saying that you don't feel the Mastercool flaring tool works well with copper nickle lines? Boy, I hope that isn't the case. I spent a lot of money on this kit!

No **** huh. Wait till you buy all the 37 degree dies too

I don’t know how you’re deburring the tubing but I use a unibit and a lite hand. That seems to give me the best results.

 

[signcrafter]

I use mine with nicop line and it works. There is a little learning curve. Post up some pics of your tool and the dies. A plumbing deburing tool wont work. You need a cone style to de burr the center. And it shouldn't be able to push the tube into where the two dies meet.

 

[isb cornbinder]

Are you saying that you don't feel the Mastercool flaring tool works well with copper nickel lines? Boy, I hope that isn't the case. I spent a lot of money on this kit!

I have had the flare tool for nearly 30 years. It has never failed to make perfect flares. I think the dies may be dirty and or, the tube must be properly and fully seated in the clamp. I sure hope you find a fix for your situation. There is little more satisfying than making a perfect flare.
I do not know how much you spent on your flaring tool. I bought mine around 1991 and I got stung for over $600. I have no regrets.

72475 UNIVERSAL HYDRAULIC FLARING TOOL SET - My Website

Tube and die set stabilizing arm for easy tube forming Magnetic adapter holder keeps adapters in place Equipped with an enlarged die set compression area for better grip of dies Create perfect production quality flares on annealed stainless steel tubing, terne plate steel tubing, soft aluminum...

www.mastercool.com

 

[ex-x-fire]

I've had that problem on 3/16. I just flip the dies over and form it that way.

 

[vssjim]

I recently bought a used Mastercool 71745 kit for the purposed of making my own flares on nickle copper lines for a project this summer. I'm intending to replace all of the brake and fuel lines on one of my cars. The other day, I tried making some test double flares on some 3/16 nickle copper, using the tool. I made 5 flares and not a single one turned out well. The core problem is that the fittings don't slide all of the way over the flare. I'll upload some pictures of the flares. I'm no expert with this tool but it appears that when I was making the flare, the tubing material "squeezed" into the crack between where the two dies meet. Hopefully the pictures show this.
I will add that the die appears dirty and/or worn down. Maybe I need to clean/replace the die? Also, I was using a plumbing tool to deburr the tubing. Maybe I need to replace that with a brake line deburring tool? Can anybody help me identify where my problem is?

Thanks!
Bryan

Make sure the Ni-Cop line you have is not the thin imported Ni-Cop line as there are two definitive lines sold I use the SUR & R tool and the Master Cool tools with no problems but I use only the SUR&R US made thick line part number BR-EZ100- what ever length you need -25 0r -50 or-100. 1/4 inch is BR-EZ200 as a side note

UltraBEND® - SUR&R

UltraBEND Tubing Flexible Brake Line Tubing Better Flares, Simple Routing, Bend by Hand, Won't Rust or Corrode Flexible UltraBEND tubing makes routing and installation simple. Easy bending Simple routing No bending tools required Smooth flares create better fitting seals Conforms to SAE...

surrauto.com

this is a link above to show what I mean as I have seen this problem before same as you show. Don't use the imported thin line from SUR@R as the last few years they added this product also I think the prefix for it is BCC but I'm not interested in it also.

 

[yb7tt3wm]

I use mine with nicop line and it works. There is a little learning curve. Post up some pics of your tool and the dies. A plumbing deburing tool wont work. You need a cone style to de burr the center. And it shouldn't be able to push the tube into where the two dies meet.

Here are pics of my kit. As you can see, it isn't brand new.

 

[yb7tt3wm]

Make sure the Ni-Cop line you have is not the thin imported Ni-Cop line as there are two definitive lines sold I use the SUR & R tool and the Master Cool tools with no problems but I use only the SUR&R US made thick line part number BR-EZ100- what ever length you need -25 0r -50 or-100. 1/4 inch is BR-EZ200 as a side note

UltraBEND® - SUR&R

UltraBEND Tubing Flexible Brake Line Tubing Better Flares, Simple Routing, Bend by Hand, Won't Rust or Corrode Flexible UltraBEND tubing makes routing and installation simple. Easy bending Simple routing No bending tools required Smooth flares create better fitting seals Conforms to SAE...

surrauto.com

this is a link above to show what I mean as I have seen this problem before same as you show. Don't use the imported thin line from SUR@R as the last few years they added this product also I think the prefix for it is BCC but I'm not interested in it also.

I haven't actually bought all of my tubing yet. For these test flares, I bought an 12 inch piece of AGS NiCopp from Advance Auto Parts. When ready, I was planning on my buying my tubing from fedhill.com, but I wasn't aware of the SUR&R and that seems to be slightly cheaper, so I may go that route. Thanks for the link.

 

[yb7tt3wm]

I use mine with nicop line and it works. There is a little learning curve. Post up some pics of your tool and the dies. A plumbing deburing tool wont work. You need a cone style to de burr the center. And it shouldn't be able to push the tube into where the two dies meet.

Thanks! I've order a proper inside/outside brake line deburring tool. Should arrive sometime this week.

 

[Jarhead0408]

Bryan,

Fwiw man, the first picture you posted makes me think you don’t have the line level within the die or perhaps the die itself is cocked a little. I ran into that with my older 71745 kit as well. My cone and dies are worn even more than yours, but they perform well. As others have said, there is a learning curve to it; especially making sure all of the components are trued up.

A few of the other pictures make me wonder whether you had the end of the line flush where it’s supposed to be and whether on one or two you might have used a tad too much force. I know I did at first.

 

[Komet]

Definitely need cone type deburring tool. I actually use a countersink drill bit which is pretty much the same thing on a 1/4" hex quick release end. I also take a little sandpaper on the outside and round that up a little bit to get everybody slidalating.

I think you may have had your dies off-center. I jiggle everything around slightly as I'm tightening down to make sure everything is happy and centered until I can just barely slide the pipe in the die, then I use the flipper handle thingy to push it back until it's exactly even with the die. It should be totally flush and centered, there should be no gaps or angles at all. Make sure you clamp the dies down good and hard, I use a wrench because the tiny little stick thing can't throw down enough force to do 3/8" steel line. Crush hard, only let up halfway on your last crush so you can get more clamp on the handle for the final go.

 

[Snapped-off]

Just used mine on some ¼" nicop the other week and it worked flawlessly. I love the thing.

 

[rich b]

We found that the premade lines (NAPA) were slightly smaller in OD and would slip when flaring. Buddy ordered a roll of tube and it measured a little bigger than the NAPA line and flared good. We cut it with a thin cut off wheel as a tube cutter left the cut end squeezed inward.

 

[theoldwizard1]

On Car Brake Flare Tool

 

[signcrafter]

On Car Brake Flare Tool

That tool has its place, I have the calvan set. But he has a nice tool already, he isnt looking for another tool. He is asking for help figuring out how to use the tool he has.

 

[yb7tt3wm]

Thank you again, for your replies. I wanted to come back around and finish this thread up. I examined my 3/16 die more closely under much better magnification and discovered that the "ribs" of the die, right below where the flare would be, were damaged -- almost flattened. This was causing the tube to expand there while making the flare. Hopefully this picture describes the problem areas:


After seeing this, I bought a new, replacement 3/16 die and it made a perfect flare the very first time!
Cheers!

 

[ex-x-fire]

That's why I said I flip my dies to flare 3/16 doubles, that's the only ones I have trouble with.

 

[lnt-1000]

That's why I said I flip my dies to flare 3/16 doubles, that's the only ones I have trouble with.

Not sure what you mean by flip the dies, are you referring to the clamping dies? How do you flip them ? They can only go one way ? No matter what I do it seems to crush the line to where it’s not round and then the fitting won’t slide up to the flare I’m working with 3/16 nicopp line

 

[ex-x-fire]

Thats what I mean, I flip the clamping dies. Mine are the first generation that are smooth on the sides.

 

[lnt-1000]

Mine have detents in them