Master Shower Tile work

[LiketoFix]

I feel I have a pretty Good Idea as to what I want to do but competent intelligent suggestions won't hurt my feelings.
The Master Shower is a bout 20 years old and in pretty good original shape and Condition. I use the shower Frequently and I noticed that the Tile grout is starting to show some age and deterioration. Before I experience possible leaks and un for seen troubles I like to be pro active. The Floor is a one inch by two inch,(1x2),Grey mosaic type and the walls starting at the bottom are twelve inch squares, (12"x12"), White Marble with a greay swirl in it. So my plan is to clean out any grout that is starting to deteriorate and show signs of age and weakness and clean and vacuum all loose particles. Re grout/re seal and be done. The grout is a light grey in color and I'll be looking to match as close as possible even if I have to scratch it all out I can. What do the experts use as I know I can Google and Search but there's a lot of products out there. I like to do it right the First and only Time! What have you guy's had success with?
Thanks,
LtF

 

[Zeke]

There are a lot of products, just not so many brands. I'd go with a modified acrylic grout. It's more flexible and water tight. Since your grout will be not deep, it needs the strength. You could go epoxy. Either way, don't let it get ahead of you as it's a ***** to remove once set.

Clean the old grout well, even so far as a light vinegar wash and then a light baking soda rinse. Doesn't and shouldn't be dry when you grout. But it has to be dead dry before you use it or seal it which requires even more cure time. Using both, I'd plan on not using the shower for a week. You may need some gentle heat.

Let me be clear, the grout has to be dry to seal, and then more time for cure.

 

[LiketoFix]

I appreciate it Zeke as I was doing a little scratching before and it'll be minimal in most cases and confined to the floor Corners where the Marble sides meet the tile floor. After I do the grunt work I'll fill all the voids and then seal everything after a Thorough cleaning.
I will take more advice if it's out there. I like to chew on all my options available, especially in today's world! A lot of OPTIONS!
Thanks,
LtF

 

[Fav Onefour]

Twenty years old? That's a pretty good run.
Also getting some good advice.
My one concern would be the backer material. The age might put it on the tail end those sheetrock tile installations. I've run into a few of those things. Have you done a knock test? Are the tiles all solid?

I've done a few with epoxy grout. It's hard work with a new install. It is even more work with a retrofit. The grout needs to cleaned out perfectly, and deep enough to get the epoxy to stick and sit. The prep takes time and patience if you want it done right.

I can help a little with the epoxy application.
My preferred method is to use epoxy on the smaller pan tile and bottom edges. I carry it up the wall until the set starts getting too firm. I use tile layers as the specific cut off point. With that method, I can switch to the modified acrylic further up the wall. The modified acrylics are easier to apply and hold up fairly well away from higher water pressures. When I do that method, I do a full clean on the epoxy and let it set. Then, I cover the pan with cardboard and tape plastic over top clean to the edges. I use this trick with larger enclosures no matter what grout is going on the wall. The walls are easier without the pan to watch.

If you decide to go epoxy up the wall. One trick you can use on your larger tile is to tape along the grout seams. It lets you cheat a little on applying grout only in the seams. Cleanup is easier without haze across the whole tile. I do my first wash with the tape in place and pull it immediately. Then, I inspect the tile to make sure I didn't overlay grout past the tape.
However you do epoxy, just stay on top of the hardening. It is not forgiving after it starts to set.

 

[LiketoFix]

Fav,
Thanks, more good information and Tips, as the knock test was good also Durock cement board was used throughout and I'm pretty confident that it's a solid backer. No hurry as I have other Bathrooms w/showers. I won't rush it as I'm a huge believer in doing it right. I do understand the Epoxy Hardener properties and will conform.
Thanks Again,
LtF

 

[P0234]

I have the exact same issue as OP, down to the marble on the walls but with about 10 more years. Subbed to see how it turns out.

 

[engineer2]

An oscillating tool with a carbide or diamond grit attachment works well to remove grout.
It might be difficult to match 20 year old grout unless you know what color and brand was used originally.

For epoxy grout it is nice to have a helper following you doing the clean up, but that might be tough in a shower stall. I found mineral spirits will clean up the epoxy haze.

For brands avoid Mapei. They use water-soluble organic colorants in their grout and it is very difficult to keep the color consistent.
Laticrete is a good brand.
I'm told the pre-mixed grouts are a good choice, but I haven't tried any yet.

I know it's a PITA, but it's best to squeegee your shower walls after every use.

 

[dcg9381]

Epoxy grout. Hands down.

 

[duneslider]

I would not remove the grout unless it is in really bad shape. Grout has nothing to do with whether the shower is waterproof or not. The tile nor the grout is a water barrier and moisture does and will move through it.

I would clean it up really good and assess it then. I would be happy to look at pictures you have. Grout should pretty much last forever if cared for. If some has fallen out it will be tough to get an exact match but likely you can find something pretty close.

I would not do epoxy or any other new fangled grout on a retrofit like this. Just keep it a portland based grout.

I would just clean it good, maybe touch up any issues, and seal it. How "dirty" is the grout? Most issues in showers is soap scum build up and that can be scrubbed off and the grout should look pretty good after a good cleaning.

Squeegee or a quick towel off after a shower will keep a shower look new pretty much forever. The faster you can get it to dry out the better it will look long term. Most people won't do this though, I am lazy and just towel off my glass every shower and then just do a "decent" scrub on the tile every 2-4 weeks and it keeps it looking pretty good. I should seal the grout but its the whole "cobblers kids don't have shoes" issue.

 

[Dig Doug]

A good carpet cleaning company a can pressure wash the tile/ grout, floor and walls, I’d get that done then review

I have mine done in Arizona (water is hard and we get it done once a year or so depending on usage - 2nd home )

 

[LiketoFix]

I would not remove the grout unless it is in really bad shape. Grout has nothing to do with whether the shower is waterproof or not. The tile nor the grout is a water barrier and moisture does and will move through it.

I would clean it up really good and assess it then. I would be happy to look at pictures you have. Grout should pretty much last forever if cared for. If some has fallen out it will be tough to get an exact match but likely you can find something pretty close.

I would not do epoxy or any other new fangled grout on a retrofit like this. Just keep it a portland based grout.

I would just clean it good, maybe touch up any issues, and seal it. How "dirty" is the grout? Most issues in showers is soap scum build up and that can be scrubbed off and the grout should look pretty good after a good cleaning.

Squeegee or a quick towel off after a shower will keep a shower look new pretty much forever. The faster you can get it to dry out the better it will look long term. Most people won't do this though, I am lazy and just towel off my glass every shower and then just do a "decent" scrub on the tile every 2-4 weeks and it keeps it looking pretty good. I should seal the grout but its the whole "cobblers kids don't have shoes" issue.

A lot of really good comments and I appreciate them all.
I'm thinking that this post here may really apply to my situation the most as my shower is in pretty good sound shape and I've done minimal scraping and cleaning as schedules and other Family matters need a little attention and as I've stated earlier that I have other showers to use as needed so doing it right is Top priority and doing when my schedule permits will determine it's process and Finality.
As far as redoing the shower completely it doesn't appear to be needed as I'll know more as I move forward. The Original Grout is Portland Based and I don't need to remove it all but probably about 10% of the grout at the corners and loose edges and cleaned properly and then re assessed to make sure after a good final cleaning I can re Grout and seal everything to help preserve it longer.
Due to proper maintenance and past sealing I'm in pretty good shape. Heck I don't even have any soap scum to clean up as my Wife's cleaning habits are second to none in my opinion. I can see where harsh cleaning chemicals have probably helped to deteriorate some areas of the grout after 20 years. Pretty common I would Imagine.
duneslider I think you hit my project on the Head as I'll keep posted to how it moves along.
Thanks,
LtF

 

[CSRPenFab]

Do what I did in my prior CA house. Blow it all out, spend about $25k doing a bitchin remodel, and then sell the house 3 months after completion when you decide to leave CA!

 

[duneslider]

A lot of really good comments and I appreciate them all.
I'm thinking that this post here may really apply to my situation the most as my shower is in pretty good sound shape and I've done minimal scraping and cleaning as schedules and other Family matters need a little attention and as I've stated earlier that I have other showers to use as needed so doing it right is Top priority and doing when my schedule permits will determine it's process and Finality.
As far as redoing the shower completely it doesn't appear to be needed as I'll know more as I move forward. The Original Grout is Portland Based and I don't need to remove it all but probably about 10% of the grout at the corners and loose edges and cleaned properly and then re assessed to make sure after a good final cleaning I can re Grout and seal everything to help preserve it longer.
Due to proper maintenance and past sealing I'm in pretty good shape. Heck I don't even have any soap scum to clean up as my Wife's cleaning habits are second to none in my opinion. I can see where harsh cleaning chemicals have probably helped to deteriorate some areas of the grout after 20 years. Pretty common I would Imagine.
duneslider I think you hit my project on the Head as I'll keep posted to how it moves along.
Thanks,
LtF

Just so you know, corners are notorious for cracking and falling out. Any change of plane will generally have more movement than hard grout can accommodate and will crack and can fall out. I struggle with these areas as a contractor because in most cases grout will last in these areas a few years but looks the best. You can get color matched caulk but it is all latex based (they call it siliconized acrylic caulk) and it tends to need more maintenance than grout does... Anyway, in customers houses I caulk it but in my own house I grout it as I can easily repair it if needed.

Anyway, If the shower is generally in good shape and just needs a little touch up in the corners that is all I would do. Regrouts are a huge pain in the **** and frankly most of the time I would rather tear it all out and start over. You can get colored sealants if you are wanting to change the color. They just paint on and change the color. That is another option but may not be needed in your case if you like what you have.

Also, most sealers only need the grout to cure for 48-72 hours before sealing. Just read the bottle of the sealer you plan to use and see what it says. Any cleaning product that is acidic will wear away the grout. Many commercial popular cleaners are acidic, also the vinegar and water that so many rave about is acidic and wears away grout. Best cleaners to use are made by the companies that make tile product and have pH neutral cleaners. Its fine to use a heavier duty cleaner a few times a year just make sure to rinse it really well after.

 

[LiketoFix]

Do what I did in my prior CA house. Blow it all out, spend about $25k doing a bitchin remodel, and then sell the house 3 months after completion when you decide to leave CA!

 

[CSRPenFab]

Not only NO! But H*L* NO!!!
That's ugly as S*I*!!!
You got taken $$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!
LtF

I guess you're entitled to your opinion, but it's based on one poor picture and your limited knowledge. That 25K remodel included an entire master bath, down to the studs. New tile throughout, tile up the walls, a large bench where the tub was before, walk-in curbless shower with linear drain, new high end Brizo sold brass fixtures throughout, two large sinks, quartz countertop etc... Other bids were over $40k. 10/10 buyers who bid on the home loved the master bath and it helped us sell for $80k above list price. I made every damn penny of that 25k investment back and then some.

 

[duneslider]

I guess you're entitled to your opinion, but it's based on one poor picture and your limited knowledge. That 25K remodel included an entire master bath, down to the studs. New tile throughout, tile up the walls, a large bench where the tub was before, walk-in curbless shower with linear drain, new high end Brizo sold brass fixtures throughout, two large sinks, quartz countertop etc... Other bids were over $40k. 10/10 buyers who bid on the home loved the master bath and it helped us sell for $80k above list price. I made every damn penny of that 25k investment back and then some.

Everyone has different tastes but I have installed a TON of showers just like that. Travertine (can't tell if that is real trav or a tile that is made to look like it but it looks real in the picture) and glass accents. Looks like a nice install from the pictures. That isn't the current "trend" but still a great looking shower. I would guess that was a handful of years ago also? Maybe 5+ years ago. Anyway, styles come and go but I have done so much travertine like that it makes my head spin.

I also don't think most people have any idea what companies charge for full kitchen or bath remods. Especially, if you are moving any plumbing or electrical. Costs add up fast and for sure it is cheaper to do it yourself. This was also in Cali which isn't the cheapest place to get work done. I highly doubt you could do a bathroom like that for anywhere near what you paid, probably not for 40k either.

 

[P0234]

I guess you're entitled to your opinion, but it's based on one poor picture and your limited knowledge. That 25K remodel included an entire master bath, down to the studs. New tile throughout, tile up the walls, a large bench where the tub was before, walk-in curbless shower with linear drain, new high end Brizo sold brass fixtures throughout, two large sinks, quartz countertop etc... Other bids were over $40k. 10/10 buyers who bid on the home loved the master bath and it helped us sell for $80k above list price. I made every damn penny of that 25k investment back and then some.

Ignore anyone publicly crapping on what you've done. I'm sure he's going to post up his whole house any day so you can critique it. I thought your bathroom looked nice.

 

[engineer2]

I redid our master bath. It was mostly a gut job and a hell of a lot of work:
Double the size by joining it with the walk-in closet and creating larger L-shaped bathroom.
Bathtub area became the new shower. Schluter everything. Beige Turkish marble.
Plumb and install a large corner tub. Two separate 48" vanities & granite tops.
Two custom medicine cabinets. Outlet in each medicine cabinet. Switched outlet inside each vanity.
Heated floor. Wall mount pivot for a TV.
I think it was around $12,000 10 years ago.

We love it especially the separate his/hers vanities and the heated floor.
I sure hope the tile is still in style when we sell.

 

[CSRPenFab]

Everyone has different tastes but I have installed a TON of showers just like that. Travertine (can't tell if that is real trav or a tile that is made to look like it but it looks real in the picture) and glass accents. Looks like a nice install from the pictures. That isn't the current "trend" but still a great looking shower. I would guess that was a handful of years ago also? Maybe 5+ years ago. Anyway, styles come and go but I have done so much travertine like that it makes my head spin.

I also don't think most people have any idea what companies charge for full kitchen or bath remods. Especially, if you are moving any plumbing or electrical. Costs add up fast and for sure it is cheaper to do it yourself. This was also in Cali which isn't the cheapest place to get work done. I highly doubt you could do a bathroom like that for anywhere near what you paid, probably not for 40k either.

It was porcelain tile with a travertine look to it. That bath was done during Covid in 2020, and we didn't want to go to wild since it wouldn't go with the rest of the dated house. I found a husband/wife tile company that did 100% of the work themselves. He did a quality job, I paid his labor and bought all the materials myself. I handled the paint, fixture install, and some other misc. tasks to keep the costs down.

It was a great design and I really like having no door and a curb-less shower with a really nice thermostatic valve.

 

[LiketoFix]

Just a completed follow up as I really didn't get a lot of help full advice her but there were a few good points by some and I just blocked out the negative comments as I cleaned out the small amount of chipped, cracked and possibly weak grout joints and using a carbide wheel on a cordless grinder and some hand work I used a colored silicone caulk and man did it come out good. Taping off all the joints with painters tape and with rubber gloves wiping down the joints and sealing everything really well I've been using the shower for a few months now and it's worked out well. I took my time with the project squeezing it in as I've had several others going at the same time. There was no need tearing out all the grout as most was in really good shape and solid! To the few who kept a positive attitude and gave sound advice I thank you.
LTF

 

[egdede]

Uh, I;ll just jump in re: CSR's tile. First, I see the OP edited his critique of CSR's tile work, but CSR's quote has let it continue to resonate through time : )

The layout kinda *****. Little strips on the edge and top line. Definitley better ways to lay that tile out. Looks 'home-owner' done.