Metal Gauge for Welding Cart/Fab Table?

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

Hey Guys I am looking to make a combo welding cart MIG/TIG with a table top fixture table. I attached a few pics so you guys can see what I am talking about.
What gauge metal would you use? I was thinking 1"x1"x.065" but newer to fabrication and not sure if .065" is too thin. The fab table will mainly be used to make brackets, exhaust work, or something relatively small/light.

-Before anyone says anything, I researched and it is fine to have tanks lay on their sides with a slight incline, it is just not up to OSHA standards but OSHA will never visit my garage...im sure they wouldn't be too happy anyways. The reason for the "horizontal" tanks is due to being able to get a slightly smaller footprint.
-The fab table is going to be on heavy duty locking sliders so if I am working on it, I can slide it out and sit underneath it which will help with pedal placement. Otherwise I can push it in and it is out of the way.
-TIG will be on top as I primarily TIG
MIG on the bottom
-Still working on where to hang Pedal, Torch, MIG gun, Filler Rod, Etc
-There is a small storage space, I have not yet decided if this is where I will place some of the above as It is on the back of the machine, not the front where the connections are.

The model isn't complete, as there is no backstop for the tanks, no casters, the welders are currently floating but this gives you a basic idea.

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

Also what improvements might you make?
The con I see is the welders' adjustments being on the side of the cart if sitting down to weld on the fab table. Not a huge deal, but a bit annoying.

 

[GeoBruin]

I'm guessing .065 will be strong/stiff enough. What's the size of the tabletop? Roughly 24 x 36"? Your top is going to provide most of its own stiffness so it really just needs to be supported at/near the four corners which it looks like you've done.

I recently built a rack to hold my MIG on top of my tig, which itself sits on top of a hacked HF welding cart. I hade a bunch of .083 wall 1" tube and it's unnecessarily heavy, especially since since all the weight is added up high.

As for your design, I would have serious concerns about mounting a welding table with holes in it directly above my welders/bottles. You're going to have hot sparks etc raining down on your hoses, cables, regulators, etc and if you ever want to grind anything, you'll be sucking grinding dust into your welders.

You could probably mitigate some of that with a slide out slag/chip/dust tray but I would still personally separate them. You may be able to see in the photo my mig welder was purchased used and the previous owner must have had the welder sitting under their welding surface as it's covered in burn marks.

 

[cvairwerks]

Top thickness is going to depend on what you are welding. The bigger and heavier pieces, along with those that have very tight, critical dimensions, are going to need a heavier top than if you are welding beer cans and little bits together. 3/16" would be the absolute minimum thickness I would use for light stuff. The heavier stuff, 1/2" or thicker.

 

[GeoBruin]

Top thickness is going to depend on what you are welding. The bigger and heavier pieces, along with those that have very tight, critical dimensions, are going to need a heavier top than if you are welding beer cans and little bits together. 3/16" would be the absolute minimum thickness I would use for light stuff. The heavier stuff, 1/2" or thicker.

They're not asking about the top, they're asking about the tube size/wall thickness. Also, I reread and see that the top will slide out during use, so that mitigates some of my concerns about hot sparking falling on the welders/bottles. That said, that cantilever is going to change up the structural requirements. Might want to start looking at larger diameter/rectangular tubing, at least for those horizontal members.

 

[cvairwerks]

They're not asking about the top, they're asking about the tube size/wall thickness. Also, I reread and see that the top will slide out during use, so that mitigates some of my concerns about hot sparking falling on the welders/bottles.

Still going to come into play in selecting the frame material. Design needs to work from the heaviest part backwards. Tossing a 1/2" top on light gauge verticals, with all the other 150-200 pounds of stuff hanging off of them is a short route to a failure. Select the top, then the sliders and then the frame material. Good sliders are going to need larger than 1x1 structure. I'd start with looking at 2 1/2 x 1, 14 ga. rectangular tubing for the frame.

 

[ItsNemo]

I find 1.5" x 0.100" wall is the ideal size for basic structures like this...1" and thinner wall is just a little too flimsy...and any bigger (unless we're talking 1" thick top fab table) just gets too heavy.

I also wouldn't lay the tanks down.

 

[whateg01]

Sliding a 24x36x1/2" top off to the side surely won't do anything to make it want too tip, will it?

A agree that you don't want all the **** that's going to fall through the holes to be landing on the welder and everything below. Are the holes a standard size that you can clamp to?

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

I'm guessing .065 will be strong/stiff enough. What's the size of the tabletop? Roughly 24 x 36"? Your top is going to provide most of its own stiffness so it really just needs to be supported at/near the four corners which it looks like you've done.

I recently built a rack to hold my MIG on top of my tig, which itself sits on top of a hacked HF welding cart. I hade a bunch of .083 wall 1" tube and it's unnecessarily heavy, especially since since all the weight is added up high.

As for your design, I would have serious concerns about mounting a welding table with holes in it directly above my welders/bottles. You're going to have hot sparks etc raining down on your hoses, cables, regulators, etc and if you ever want to grind anything, you'll be sucking grinding dust into your welders.

You could probably mitigate some of that with a slide out slag/chip/dust tray but I would still personally separate them. You may be able to see in the photo my mig welder was purchased used and the previous owner must have had the welder sitting under their welding surface as it's covered in burn marks.

Yes tabletop is 24x36. Thank you for the insight on wall thickness. I may build the majority of it out of .065" and the support for the sliders/verticles may be bigger "diameter" and/or thicker wall.
Burn marks is a good point however I TIG everything (only welder for now) and I dont picture using MIG too much but want one for the occasional use. I am not too concerned with burn marks as TIG is very clean and all my grinding is done on the other side of the shop. Thanks!

They're not asking about the top, they're asking about the tube size/wall thickness. Also, I reread and see that the top will slide out during use, so that mitigates some of my concerns about hot sparking falling on the welders/bottles. That said, that cantilever is going to change up the structural requirements. Might want to start looking at larger diameter/rectangular tubing, at least for those horizontal members.

I think you are right on looking at thicker/bigger tubing for the horizontal pieces where the sliders support and the verticals. thanks!

Still going to come into play in selecting the frame material. Design needs to work from the heaviest part backwards. Tossing a 1/2" top on light gauge verticals, with all the other 150-200 pounds of stuff hanging off of them is a short route to a failure. Select the top, then the sliders and then the frame material. Good sliders are going to need larger than 1x1 structure. I'd start with looking at 2 1/2 x 1, 14 ga. rectangular tubing for the frame.

Thanks for the insight. I just got my sliders in and they are massive. I agree I need larger horizontals at a minimum, possibly the verticles too.

I find 1.5" x 0.100" wall is the ideal size for basic structures like this...1" and thinner wall is just a little too flimsy...and any bigger (unless we're talking 1" thick top fab table) just gets too heavy.

I also wouldn't lay the tanks down.

Thanks I am starting to lean that way too. only a slight redesign!

Sliding a 24x36x1/2" top off to the side surely won't do anything to make it want too tip, will it?

A agree that you don't want all the **** that's going to fall through the holes to be landing on the welder and everything below. Are the holes a standard size that you can clamp to?

I am curious if it will tip. I am not exactly sure how to proof my concept prior to building. The table is 24x36 and I am having it slide out 18" which will let me get underneath but also keep some of the weight on the cart itself too. The table top is 3/16" with a structure underneath to keep it flat and sturdy, so a bit lighter than 1/2". Welders/Tanks, Fixture Tools, etc will offset some of that weight hanging off.
Holes from fixture table are 5/8 / 16mm. This is a purchase top and advertises to take normal fixture tools.

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

I keep forgetting to measure my bottle at home. I believe it is a 125CF bottle but cant remember, comes up to above chest height. If it is smaller I dont think it will hang off at all. Also have to get real measurements from my welder as these are what I could find online. It looks like it could be a tight fit.
Thanks everyone for your advise so far. Going to update my model with some of your suggestions.

 

[mogandave]

I like angle.

 

[cvairwerks]

One thing to keep in mind too, is that you will at some point, lean on the table with it extended. Wouldn’t be surprised if you put half your body weight on it on occasions. Factor that into your tip prevention.

 

[Walkers]

I would completely separate the fab table and the welder cart. The sparks and dirt created on the table are going to fill your machines with abrasive dirt. Also, 1" tube on a cart is okay, but on a fab table isn't even marginal yet. 2" pipe is marginal for fab table legs. Remember, you are going to hammer and clamp to a fab table, so make it stout.

 

[imagineer]

My weld table is made with 2x2x1/8 wall steel tube for the legs and lower shelf support, and uses 4" c-channel for supporting the 1/2" thick top.

The square material for the legs was chosen out of convenience as I upcycled a few extrusion racks. So far, I've seen a benefit to using the thicker material as I've added features to make the table more useful. Had I used thinner materials, it would not have been as easy to modify and add (welded and bolted) to the table frame.

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

I would completely separate the fab table and the welder cart. The sparks and dirt created on the table are going to fill your machines with abrasive dirt. Also, 1" tube on a cart is okay, but on a fab table isn't even marginal yet. 2" pipe is marginal for fab table legs. Remember, you are going to hammer and clamp to a fab table, so make it stout.

Ideally I would love to separate the fab table and welding cart but my shop doesn't have a lot of spare room with essentially 2 trucks in there. This is why I would an all in one design. As mentioned previously I could add a "drip" tray to protect them some. Is a there such a thing as a filter for welders to go over/in the fan of the welder? There are times where I grind and dust is in the air which settles on/in things.
I probably will lean on it, true. I can always add weight to the back side under the cart in the case it gets tippy. Not ideal, yes but it will also have additional weight form tools/machines too.
I am going to increase the pipe sizing for certain areas.

My weld table is made with 2x2x1/8 wall steel tube for the legs and lower shelf support, and uses 4" c-channel for supporting the 1/2" thick top.

The square material for the legs was chosen out of convenience as I upcycled a few extrusion racks. So far, I've seen a benefit to using the thicker material as I've added features to make the table more useful. Had I used thinner materials, it would not have been as easy to modify and add (welded and bolted) to the table frame.

What have you added onto your fab table? I plan on going to larger piping in certain areas if not all.

 

[imagineer]

I added a bar for holding angle grinders and brackets for storing clamps. Whereas it wasn't attached to the square tubing, I also made a pivoting bracket to hold the bench grinder that when not in use, rotates and stores under the weld table top.

I don't have any pictures of the new set up, but I'll snap a few this weekend and post them.

 

[Walkers]

Ideally I would love to separate the fab table and welding cart but my shop doesn't have a lot of spare room with essentially 2 trucks in there. This is why I would an all in one design. As mentioned previously I could add a "drip" tray to protect them some. Is a there such a thing as a filter for welders to go over/in the fan of the welder? There are times where I grind and dust is in the air which settles on/in things.
I probably will lean on it, true. I can always add weight to the back side under the cart in the case it gets tippy. Not ideal, yes but it will also have additional weight form tools/machines too.
I am going to increase the pipe sizing for certain areas.

What have you added onto your fab table? I plan on going to larger piping in certain areas if not all.

Just build the heavier table to fit over (or rather, the cart to roll under) the welding cart. Then you can move the welder out of the way when you have dirty work.

 

[GeoBruin]

Just build the heavier table to fit over (or rather, the cart to roll under) the welding cart. Then you can move the welder out of the way when you have dirty work.

This is the way. My table has 4 legs but no horizontal members connecting them so I can wheel whatever I want (usually my bandsaw) underneath for storage.

 

[Walkers]

This is the way.

This is the way.

 

[tjansson]

I'd probably err to 1x1 0.083.
Torch leads and ground leads all hanging over each other is probably going to be annoying.
Too hard to change your mig wire I think.
MIG adjustments are going to be on the floor which also will probably be annoying.

I struggled to design a satisfactory TIG & MIG combo Cart. It just ends up being so big. I think will just get 2 separate carts for mobility and keeping the controls for both at a good height, and keep the leads from getting tangled with eachother.

Here's probably my favorite I came up with. 17w37l65"h without casters. With Milwaukee packout drawers on the bottom, TIG in blue, MIG in orange:

 

[imagineer]

I added a bar for holding angle grinders and brackets for storing clamps. Whereas it wasn't attached to the square tubing, I also made a pivoting bracket to hold the bench grinder that when not in use, rotates and stores under the weld table top.

I don't have any pictures of the new set up, but I'll snap a few this weekend and post them.

Here are the pics of what I added to the weld table frame. The bar that holds the angle grinders is more of the 2x2 tube. The brackets that hold the clamps are 1/4" stainless, waterjet cut pieces, bent and bolted to the underside of the 4" channel frame. The bench grinder bracket is my own design and uses the same hardware for holding it up in the use position as well as holding it folded under the table when not in use.

 

[Fred W B]

Why does everyone always want to have the bottles on the carts? I put the (full size) gas bottles in the corner of the shop, and made a small cart for the MIG welder, the TIG welder stands on top of it. Run long hoses with quick connect fittings to the bottles. Makes it much easier to move the welders around. As stated keep the welders away from the fab table.

 

[whateg01]

Why does everyone always want to have the bottles on the carts? I put the (full size) gas bottles in the corner of the shop, and made a small cart for the MIG welder, the TIG welder stands on top of it. Run long hoses with quick connect fittings to the bottles. Makes it much easier to move the welders around. As stated keep the welders away from the fab table.

Because it's a pain to have to walk across the shop to turn on/off the gas. Plus it's another trip hazard or something to get caught on something else. In this day and age of cordless tools, if I had a cordless welder that could run endlessly, I would be interested.

 

[rdoty]

Suggest considering 1x2 instead of 1x1 - substantially stiffer. You can orient the long and short sides to preserve width where you need it and to add rigidity where you need it. As others have noted, 14ga (.078") or 12ga (.109") would be good. You are going to have somewhat unusual strains on the cart with the slide-out welding surface so it is a good idea to beef it up a bit.

You will have problems with tipping unless you add stabilizer legs on the side. These could be pull-out or swing-out. Half the width of the welding surface would probably work, full width would be best.

Since you are planning on holes in the welding surface you should put a drip pan or cover underneath it.

Consider adding an extension cord and dual outlets to the cart. It is convenient to have electricity on the cart.

I don't see hose or cable storage on the cart. You need something for your TIG lead, ground cable, and power cord.

Where are you storing things like helmet, gloves, PPE, consumables, clamps, and fixtures? Is the storage protected from dust? With open storage things get disgusting rather quickly.

 

[tarbellb]

You can get away with just about anything with enough triangulation and support.

I've built plenty of furniture out of 16g sq tube (mostly 2x2). It's got plenty of strength in low to medium use cases, easy enough to weld, and keeps things lightweight.

I would look at your bottle shelves tho, loading those bottles on and off may require supporting the front more?

And def plan on shrouding your machines, you don't want them sucking in metal debris from above.

 

[jeepinerdeep]

I believe it's been noted, but certainly prefer to work with 083 or even 109 wall thickness. It's just a little more forgiving in the mig area and is certainly stout. I like the A513 profile for things like this. Looks neater imo. No other reason. If you asked me to make this for you, I think I would steer you to 1.5x083.