Joist hangers after the fact?

[Sumboodie]

Have an apartment in my shop that is drywalled on the ceiling.

They didn't put any joist hangers for the mezzanine above the apartment. It's currently only sporting 2x6 joists and a few sheets of osb.
I need to finish it for a temp bedroom and storage. It's roughly 30ft wide and 14ft deep.

Should I be cutting drywall or is there other framing that can work?
I think they are just toenailed to a ledger board. Maybe end nailed.
That is nailed to the wall. Planning on adding some Timber lok screws to ledger to tie to the wall studs.

 

[strutaeng]

You have a picture? Yeah, you obviously need to cut out the Sheetrock to get the joist hangers installed. Use the recommended attachment by the joist manufacturer.

The ledger 2x is nailed to the studs? I can't comment on that? Not sure how much load is there.

TEK screws? Those are usually meat for guage metal or wood-to-metal attachment. Or is that the connection between the ledger board to studs?

How was the connection supposed to be made? Do you have any plans that called it out?

 

[Sumboodie]

You have a picture? Yeah, you obviously need to cut out the Sheetrock to get the joist hangers installed. Use the recommended attachment by the joist manufacturer.

The ledger 2x is nailed to the studs? I can't comment on that? Not sure how much load is there.

TEK screws? Those are usually meat for guage metal or wood-to-metal attachment. Or is that the connection between the ledger board to studs?

How was the connection supposed to be made? Do you have any plans that called it out?

I meant timber lok screws. Was fixing my post when you read it probably.

No plans. Previous owner "built" it.
It's my house till I can afford to build a house in hopefully 5-7 years.

 

[firebirdparts]

well, you can't span 14 feet with a 2 by 6 and have living space on that, so I'd say you need to get some joists and hangers both.

Cutting the drywall to put joist hangers on what you have would not tempt me, but I might be tempted to save some of what I had by doubling the 2 by 6's or putting new ones in to give 8" centers.

To your question, I guess I deciphered it to mean that there is drywall on the bottom of the joists and thus you can't put a hanger without damaging this drywall. I hope that's right.

 

[BillK]

I dont understand ? What is holding up the joists now ? Pictures would really be nice.

 

[firebirdparts]

^^^^^^ He said:

I think they are just toenailed to a ledger board. Maybe end nailed.

That's way better than a picture. He can see way better than we can.

 

[strutaeng]

I understood this is OP's condition:

Good point on the 2x6 joist adequacy (or lack of.)

 

[BillK]

^^^^^^ He said:

That's way better than a picture. He can see way better than we can.

Doh, I missed that

 

[duneslider]

We def need more pictures of what this is. You can't get a solid enough floor with 2x6's at a 13' span. You could get close with 2x6's on 8" centers but still below the code minimum of L/240. It would be a super bouncy floor and def sag in the middle.

If there is a support, or wall under this that cuts the span to say 10' then things could be workable. I have some storage at an 8' span with 2x6's and it feels solid when I am up on it.

 

[juddspaintballs]

I wouldn't trust the ledger board to hold up an entire floor either. I'd want it sitting on top of studs instead of ledger locked into the studs. If you built a 2x4 wall under the end of the joists with a double top plate, you wouldn't need joist hangers at all. You will need to upsize your joists for living space, though.

 

[Sumboodie]

I wouldn't trust the ledger board to hold up an entire floor either. I'd want it sitting on top of studs instead of ledger locked into the studs. If you built a 2x4 wall under the end of the joists with a double top plate, you wouldn't need joist hangers at all. You will need to upsize your joists for living space, though.

It would require a lot of work to frame a wall against the wall. Basically gutting much of the apartment as well as making already small rooms 4" smaller.

Ledger into studs is what holds up most porches and decks.

 

[Sumboodie]

We def need more pictures of what this is. You can't get a solid enough floor with 2x6's at a 13' span. You could get close with 2x6's on 8" centers but still below the code minimum of L/240. It would be a super bouncy floor and def sag in the middle.

If there is a support, or wall under this that cuts the span to say 10' then things could be workable. I have some storage at an 8' span with 2x6's and it feels solid when I am up on it.

The main section getting the bedroom area has a wall so the span is about 10ft.

It's not ideal, but short of tearing it down, it's what I have to work with. It'll probably be torn out once I have a house built, so don't want to spend a ton of money on it.

It's just a space for a bed and some clothes storage, doesn't need to handle a 300lber doing the funky chicken dance

 

[billconner]

The main section getting the bedroom area has a wall so the span is about 10ft.

A wall under the joists, in the shop, or on top of them, in the bedroom?

Something like this might be accepted for the ledger attachment:

 

[KnurledNut]

If im understanding correctly, there is open access to the framing from the top?
If so, one option is to block between the joists where they meet the ledger.
Fasten blocking to ledger. Fasten joists to blocking.

Another option would be a continuous steel angle lagged to the wall underneath. Call it industrial crown.

 

[Sumboodie]

If im understanding correctly, there is open access to the framing from the top?
If so, one option is to block between the joists where they meet the ledger.
Fasten blocking to ledger. Fasten joists to blocking.

Another option would be a continuous steel angle lagged to the wall underneath. Call it industrial crown.

Yeah, there's no floor right now, just some sheets of loose OSB where they stored stuff. Drywall on the bottom, IE the ceiling.

 

[Sumboodie]

A wall under the joists, in the shop, or on top of them, in the bedroom?

Something like this might be accepted for the ledger attachment:

Under, on the 1st floor. Divides a bedroom and laundry/shower room.

 

[billconner]

Under, on the 1st floor. Divides a bedroom and laundry/shower room.

I might consider doubling the 2x6s that span 10'. I think it will be pretty bouncy and actually sag a little.

 

[acer66]

Yeah, there's no floor right now, just some sheets of loose OSB where they stored stuff. Drywall on the bottom, IE the ceiling.

If you have full access from above can put some proper sized joist with joist hangers in between the existing joists?

You could also use the joist hanger that are designed to go at the end of a ledger if you want to double up the existing ones but that might cause some drywall damage nailing the the joists together.

 

[Sumboodie]

If you have full access from above can put some proper sized joist with joist hangers in between the existing joists?

You could also use the joist hanger that are designed to go at the end of a ledger if you want to double up the existing ones but that might cause some drywall damage nailing the the joists together.

2x6 is what is getting used. Limited headroom.

As is, only 5.5ft, so don't want even less headroom.

I know not ideal, but it's better than living in a tent.

 

[jkuro]

After you double your joists add a row of solid bridging. This will also help stiffen things up.

 

[Sumboodie]

After you double your joists add a row of solid bridging. This will also help stiffen things up.

You talking about blocking right? 2x6s at 90* to the joists?

 

[acer66]

You talking about blocking right? 2x6s at 90* to the joists?

I think so and you might want to add more than one row.

 

[CraigStu]

I am thinking go w/ the extra 2x6s w/ proper joist hangers between the existing 2x6s. We all know this isn't to code, almost no matter what, due to the 5.5ft ceiling. So stiffen it up some, talk to whoever will be sleeping there, and go for it. You could get a little extra stiffness by screwing and gluing (quality construction adhesive) the usual osb subflooring down. You can also get tongue and groove subflooring and put glue at that joint too.

 

[billconner]

And anchor the ledger to the studs. That's too he weak point.

 

[rayra]

yes, strip a 2'W swath of drywall from each end of the 2x6s and properly install joist hangars on them. Easy matter to hang new strips of drywall to cover it all again. And take a good look at how your ledger is attached to the wall studs. And there are support brackets to shore up those ledgers, which you can also install while you have that drywall off.
Just be careful when cutting the drywall that you don't cut the bottom edge of your joists, weakening them further.

Seconding the blocking suggestion. Bind the whole thing together.

 

[acer66]

These are the type joist hangers I am talking about.

Nail them in place snug to the existing joists with a cut off as spacer inside because its easy, at least for me to install the hangers pushed together, slide in the new ones in from the top and hammer away.

Normally I would just nail the now sistered joists together but depending on how much drywall work you want to do you can also use structural screws which are also an option for installing the joist hangers itself.

We just did a job where we did not use a single nail just structural screws because hand nailing all the hangers in very tight spots would have lead to a lot of four letter words.

I might get a palm nailer next time.

Good luck with your project OP.

 

[Firebrick43]

A layer of actual plywood and really well glued and screwed to both the bottom and top in addition to the blocking creates a torsion box which transfers the load to the skin(plywood) for a much stiffer structure.

 

[NUTTSGT]

If you're going to cut the drywall to add joist hangers, I would buy double joist hangers and sister another 2x6 up the original ones, glue/screw them. Add blocking and glue/screw flooring down.

 

[duneslider]

Okay, if you are at a 10' span your looking at about L/240 on the floor which is not great and you have the issue of no hangers. If it were me I would use the Simpson L70 reinforcing brackets on the existing joists. That will give them more strength and would make me feel a bit better. Then I would also add a 2x6 in between each of the existing joists with the appropriate joist hanger (G90?). These could be nailed in with a palm nailer, or use the Simpson screws and a small impact (that should maybe fit too).

Between adding the L70's and the new joists with the hangers it isn't going anywhere and will exceed L/360 which would be good enough for doing tile.

As for the ledger, get some structural screws and add those around the ledger into the studs. With the drywall under it and adding some structural screws it won't go anywhere. I like the Simpson 1/4" strong drives for this, there is a similar GRK that I use a lot also that is really nice. I tend to like the hex bit for these big ones better than the torq drive on the GRK but I haven't had any issues with the GRK at all. The Simpson has a heavier galvanizing on it which I like but wouldn't matter indoors.

 

[firebirdparts]

It would require a lot of work to frame a wall against the wall. Basically gutting much of the apartment as well as making already small rooms 4" smaller.

Ledger into studs is what holds up most porches and decks.

Obviously, the ledger itself is infinitely strong in framing terms, presuming there is a "ledge" existing. In this case I presume one exists, a stud wall, of also more or less infinite strength for framing purposes. The only issue with it is attachment. You can attach it however you want without disturbing the sheetrock, and I'm sure you know that. No problem.

It's nice to have loads coming down on a wall, but adequate attachment is certainly possible.

Anyway, the more you post about this, the more I like my original suggestion.