My Harbor Freight Investment

[sberry]

I have seen some of the cheap tools beat hard and still working, beat beyond what John or any one user ever likely would, see the stuff in fab shops with several young guys using the same stuff, abused and then some.

 

[MechanicNamedJohn]

Here we go again. First off, I said I use my tools most everyday, not every tool everyday. I do use my impact sockets a lot, however most of the time I use a ratchet. My impact is the corded one from HF, pretty bulky and prevents me from using it in some spots.

Anyway, here are some pics of the cars I am currently working on.

RX-7 engine swap


Explorer electrical nightmare


Caravan head gaskets


Now it's obvious I'm using my tools. How often, I guess you have to take my word for it??? Or maybe, I really have a secret stash; a loaded Snap On box full of SO tools, but I purchased all the HF stuff, and wanted to show that off instead? Never using my HF tools, post pics on this site just to start some ****. Maybe that's it?

 

[Bull]

Now it's obvious I'm using my tools. How often, I guess you have to take my word for it??? Or maybe, I really have a secret stash; a loaded Snap On box full of SO tools, but I purchased all the HF stuff, and wanted to show that off instead? Never using my HF tools, post pics on this site just to start some ****. Maybe that's it?

So, THAT'S what's going on? John, you little dickens, you sure had me going for a while there.

 

[mrholeshot]

John is a Closet SO collector and User.

You need to drop an LS1 in the RX7

 

[rayzor32]

HF tools can sometimes surprise you and can sometimes be a decent tool and value but then there is a lot of junk there too, the useless stuff I see there like:

Flare wrenches, dont work
ball pein hammers, flat out dangerous coworker had one shatter
snap ring pliers, I broke all the tips on them on the first uses
wrenches, busted my knuckles on them once from the open end spreading
torque wrench, not sure id trust it for engine building

the good stuff:

Fuel pressure tester, works decent mine leaked but i teflon taped it and the lens is cheap plastic so don't drop it.
heat gun, works
o2 sensor set, decent set for the money
Snap on copy ratchets, decent ratchet for the money
impact sockets, decent enough but they will break and stretch with heavy use


Honestly id invest in some decent hammers and and wrenches you only get one pair of eyes and hands. Doesn't look like youve used them much you will learn what ***** and whats decent, pretty good set for the home but they won't hold up for professional use. The color coated sockets are good but if you use them professionally they will stretch out (even mac's stretch over time, snap on's are the only ones ive seen that don't). The US general box is a pretty sturdier box and the best value for your money, again great box for the house but not secure enough for work, but its not holding snap on tools so it would work.

Harbor Freight is PERFECT for the tool that you use only once in a while, there is no point to buy an expensive tool that you only use maybe once a month or once a year.

 

[bchee]

Now it's obvious I'm using my tools.

Technically this doesn't prove it. The actual tools are not featured in the pictures. To satisfy these guys you need actual videos of the tools in use.

 

[MechanicNamedJohn]

Technically this doesn't prove it. The actual tools are not featured in the pictures. To satisfy these guys you need actual videos of the tools in use.

I know this, thats why I said either you believe or I have a secret stash of tools.

I'm not making a video, I refuse to put that much effort forth, just to prove a point. Of course some of you will say, "but John, you did make a video to prove a point." True, I did, but I was compensated.

 

[nismomans13]

impact sockets, decent enough but they will break and stretch with heavy use

has anybody actually SEEN that happen?

Harbor Freight is PERFECT for the tool that you use only once in a while, there is no point to buy an expensive tool that you only use maybe once a month or once a year.

one of the most logical statements I've read on this board in awhile. I have their o2 sensor set because it was 50 bucks. No reason to spend 50 bucks on just ONE SO o2 socket that I use maybe once or twice every couple years.

HF has their place in the tool world. Hell i have the chicago sawzall becasue it was on sale for 19.99. If it breaks then I still got my money worth out of it for a tool i don't use that much.

 

[rayzor32]

I've seen it the one guy at work has a craftsman stack loaded with HF. If you don't use them professionally you'll probably never live to see them stretch. Like I said even MAC sockets stretch, old guy at work has had a set he's been using for probably 20 years and the common sizes all stretched and hes been slowly warrantying them. The snap-on's he has aren't stretched but some of his six point snap on wrenches has.

 

[mrholeshot]

Some of HF stuff will hold up to professional standards. Any tool can be broken. Some of their ratchets I would have no problem using, some of the sockets i'd use, some of the screwdrivers I'd use. I once had a old Sears brand (not craftsman) made in Tiawan double box end wrench I bent to make a timing belt wrench for escorts (before they were commercially available) and I bet that wrech has done at least 400 timing belts and still works (although not as much anymore) and that bolt had to be tight.

 

[Grand Marquis GT]

MNJ is a pioneer on these here boards.

Hell, I wish I was that clean when wrenchin'!

 

[MechanicNamedJohn]

I know I promised some new pics, but I made a few videos instead. The video quality kinda *****, looks fine in my Windows Media Player, but for some reason it's a little blurry on Youtube??? I apologize.
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/t50-mTYBkr8&hl=en_US&fs=1?rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/t50-mTYBkr8&hl=en_US&fs=1?rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object><object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iFYY87zLLdE&hl=en_US&fs=1?rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iFYY87zLLdE&hl=en_US&fs=1?rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object><object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/q39vuQD3Cug&hl=en_US&fs=1?rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/q39vuQD3Cug&hl=en_US&fs=1?rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object><object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/U-eWsJd9Xig&hl=en_US&fs=1?rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/U-eWsJd9Xig&hl=en_US&fs=1?rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object><object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rzZ1W3WeSaA&hl=en_US&fs=1?rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rzZ1W3WeSaA&hl=en_US&fs=1?rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

 

[mrholeshot]

John, Very impressive. Your the man. After testing some of the HF tools and finding some of them pretty decent I really like your set-up. You have found a way to avoid selling your soul to the tool Gods and really pulled it off in style. Even if you buy something and it's peice of **** it's no big loss. I was surprized I didn't see the Pittsburg Pro screwdrivers in your box. Those things blow my mind at a buck a peice. Youre my hero!!

 

[MechanicNamedJohn]

One of the videos is too long, and Youtube will not play it. Can anyone chop it in half for me? If so please PM your email address and I send you the video file. Much appreciation, thanks.

 

[mrholeshot]

One of the videos is too long, and Youtube will not play it. Can anyone chop it in half for me? If so please PM your email address and I send you the video file. Much appreciation, thanks.

You don't need to prove anything John. I know I was the first one to call you out on this issue and I wish I could back up and rethink my mistake. The truth of the matter is I took a HF Chrome socket and hooked it to my most powerful 1/2 impact and held it down for about 20 seconds until the lug stud snapped. The inside of the socket showed very little to no damage whatsoever. I have absolutly tortured some of the stuff I have purchaced from them and in most cases been shocked. The Chrome they use is some of the toughest Ive seen.

You have my sincere apollogy for ever breathing this issue. I think I just envy how neat you keep your toolbox.

 

[Bull]

Jim, that is an impressive change of opinion, and I'm happy to see it. The hands-on testing that you have done goes further than most people who speculate about the relative merits of tools would ever consider going.

In the videos, John sounds like a nice, normal guy. The greater the shame, then, that some elements of this thread are the way they are.

 

[MechanicNamedJohn]

One of the videos is too long, and Youtube will not play it. Can anyone chop it in half for me? If so please PM your email address and I send you the video file. Much appreciation, thanks.

Ok never mind, I was able to split the video. Everything is fine now, and all the video links work.

 

[MechanicNamedJohn]

You don't need to prove anything John. I know I was the first one to call you out on this issue and I wish I could back up and rethink my mistake. The truth of the matter is I took a HF Chrome socket and hooked it to my most powerful 1/2 impact and held it down for about 20 seconds until the lug stud snapped. The inside of the socket showed very little to no damage whatsoever. I have absolutly tortured some of the stuff I have purchaced from them and in most cases been shocked. The Chrome they use is some of the toughest Ive seen.

You have my sincere apollogy for ever breathing this issue. I think I just envy how neat you keep your toolbox.

No worries, I never took your comment as a negative one to begin with.

 

[thesilverone]

You need to drop an LS1 in the RX7

 

[VWinTHEblood]

Awesome toolbox tour videos John, thanks for taking the time to make them. Honestly, if I lived in the States I would buy a lot of stuff from Harbor Freight, every time I head down I try and make it to a HF location. We have Princess Auto in Canada and I shop there all the time but the selection is half what HF has. Both stores offer quality and economical alternatives to the truck brands, I try to buy quality where it counts but there's no reason why I need to spend $66 on a Snap On battery terminal puller for example when the one I bought at Princess Auto for $5 works so well, in fact it looks identical to the Blue Point version that costs $29. Like you say in your video if the tool makes it through even one job it's paid for itself, I agree. Thanks again for sharing your collection.

 

[fourfeathers]

Man, what a good sport. I am afraid I'd have a huge chip on my shoulder if I was defending my tools. Thanks for taking the time to make the vid. I bet you will find them re-posted all over the net.

 

[babzog]

So, THAT'S what's going on? John, you little dickens, you sure had me going for a while there.

No no no... he went to the scrapyard in his birkenstocks and Tommy Hilger golf shirt, slapped some hasitly scribbled paper onto some wrecks and called them "jobs". Yeah yeah, that's it!

His mistake was that he didn't use the cover page off the Wall St. Journal... everyone knows you're supposed to do that when proving an identity.



Frankly, I like the approach of simple economics. If a tech buys a $10 tool and pays for it with one job, then the next 10 jobs are gravy. If he breaks it on the 11th, he warranties it and carries on. Compare to the tech who buys the $100 tool and spends the next 10 jobs paying for it. Tech B's tool might never break, but tech A has been making more money for longer. Note I say "jobs", not "days". 10 jobs might span months or longer.

All of this, of course, as noted by MJ, is totally dependent on the particular tool and its intended application. $10 HF/PA torque wrenches are shite wheras their sockets are generally fine - they tighten and they loosen, what else do you need from them, a kiss and a BJ? Never had a SO socket give me either.

 

[mrholeshot]

The really funny thing about cheap tools. All the real techs seem to hate them but normally have a box full of them to go to the salvage yard to recover parts off old cars. They subject them to conditions that they would never put a tool truck brand in, throw them in the dirt, mud, bang on them with a hammer, use them as a hammer, prybar, out a pipe on and then never clean them. They keep on living for years. The $100 plus ratchet has to be cleaned and oiled and still breaks every few months. Then they talk **** about the el cheapo tools.

 

[mrholeshot]

their sockets are generally fine - they tighten and they loosen, what else do you need from them, a kiss and a BJ? Never had a SO socket give me either.

Yeah for all the Screwings I took on the tool truck I never got either. Just some visual stimulation and then straight up the old .........

 

[SSGTWC]

I'm glad to see all the ******* tags, that all the dumbasses that tried to insult the this working man with, are gone. The tool doesn't make the mechanic work, it's mechanic who makes the tool work.

edit: spelling and grammar

 

[sandog_79]

I have read through many of these boards and perhaps this is not the best thread for this. I am not a professional mechanic, I am a DIY'er with most of my mechanics tools being craftsman which I picked up off of craigslist. This guy has a very nice tool setup and I see the picky truck people love insulting or what not. Even 1 guy said that real mechanics don't buy on craigslist because they are too busy working on cars. I understand he is a mechanic and not a money manager. But for 90% of the tools 1 needs HF or CMAN will do great, and are cheap to buy. This guy has ~3200 in tools, the same mechanic with snap on, is what ~30k in tools. Yeah, in 20 years when this guy wants to retire, he can maybe sell his tools for 1500 (todays dollars), the snapon guy, maybe 8k. So the real net difference in cost is ~20.3k, not adding in all the interest the snap on charges. Now add that to a mutual fund and at the end of 20yrs, you will have a mid 6 figure retirement, why because the real mechanic decided to be a real mechanic and not play keeping up with the jones in the tool department. Yeah, there are some tools that definitely need name brand. In my box, I have a Tektronix dual channel 400 MHz, portable scope and a solus scanner, and for my precision instruments I have Wiha and Excelta, I even have tweezers that are 40 bucks a pair. I buy quality when it counts, and I almost always try to buy used. I also have HF struff. I am sure that the truck guys will flame on about this and that, but show me bottom dollar why. Thats what it comes down to. Oh and if you want to say that the cheap HF and CMAN will break, well cool, we can go buy 3 complete sets of tools off of Ebay or craigslist and still come in at more than 1/2 of what you paid.

 

[sselander]

Interesting thread, l want to share something I stumbled across:

Apparently Harbor Freight IS trying to improve quality

I was checking out the Harbor Freight USA website and saw an employment section.
If you pop over to corporate, you will see these job titles, among others:
When you click on one when you go to the site, you can read the description.
A lot is going on if you peruse them. I am impressed at some of the descriptions

test technician
engineering test manager
sourcing buyer
quality analyst
lab engineer, returns analysis

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/employment/displayOpenings.do?type=corporate

Like many here, I have a mix of tools, and like to keep an open eye

 

[mrholeshot]

Interesting thread, l want to share something I stumbled across:

Apparently Harbor Freight IS trying to improve quality

I was checking out the Harbor Freight USA website and saw an employment section.
If you pop over to corporate, you will see these job titles, among others:
When you click on one when you go to the site, you can read the description.
A lot is going on if you peruse them. I am impressed at some of the descriptions

test technician
engineering test manager
sourcing buyer
quality analyst
lab engineer, returns analysis

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/employment/displayOpenings.do?type=corporate

Like many here, I have a mix of tools, and like to keep an open eye

I already have that job but I'm paying them to do it, lol

 

[sselander]

A Craiglist tip for searching listings or categories

there are websites that make it easy to search multiple craiglist cities

I use searchtempest.com, but there are many others

crazedlist.org, allofcraigs.com, craigshelper.com, etc

you can use google, but it is a little more involved

example:
To search some specific cities:
keyword site:sfbay.craigslist.org OR site:nyc.craigslist.org OR site:bos.craigslist.org

 

[rayzor32]

Some of you guys have good points but some of you guys are acting like harbor freight's tools are the best thing out there and anybody that pays more for a tool is a "slave" or an idiot. At least call the tools what they are, some of it IS junk and a lot of it is surprisingly decent, but not great.

The tools this guy has is perfect for what he is doing in his garage, but try working flat rate in a shop with this stuff and the jobs are going to be a lot harder and take longer. Tech's buy snap-on, mac, etc because it makes our lives easier and gets the job done faster, and holds up to more abuse. The faster the job gets done the more money we can make, so paying more for a better tool will ultimately make you more money. If a wrench saves you 5 minutes a job, mutliply that 8 times a day, 5 days a week over 20 years. Not a perfect example but you see my point. And i've busted my hands on my fair share of cheap wrenches and trips to the ER are more costly then buying a quality wrench. As snap-on says their IS a difference, tighter tolerances, better steel, etc etc

 

[Hiball]

Some of you guys have good points but some of you guys are acting like harbor freight's tools are the best thing out there and anybody that pays more for a tool is a "slave" or an idiot. At least call the tools what they are, some of it IS junk and a lot of it is surprisingly decent, but not great.

The tools this guy has is perfect for what he is doing in his garage, but try working flat rate in a shop with this stuff and the jobs are going to be a lot harder and take longer. Tech's buy snap-on, mac, etc because it makes our lives easier and gets the job done faster, and holds up to more abuse. The faster the job gets done the more money we can make, so paying more for a better tool will ultimately make you more money. If a wrench saves you 5 minutes a job, mutliply that 8 times a day, 5 days a week over 20 years. Not a perfect example but you see my point. And i've busted my hands on my fair share of cheap wrenches and trips to the ER are more costly then buying a quality wrench.

I dont own any HF tools but i have a buddy who uses Genius brand tools and i have yet to hear any complaints. Could you please explain how a HF Ratchet and Socket can make the job "Harder and take longer" versus a snap on set?

 

[sandog_79]

I do realize that HF is not the best and that the best exists out there. But a socket that costs 1 vs a socket that costs 10 dollars is hard to compare. My point is that on these forums everyone loves to bash HF or CMAN as inferior. Yes, some of there products do ****, but to spend 30k+ on tools is ridiculous. I know some industries have speciality equipment. I am an engineer and the repair center I am responsible for as a piece of test equipment we purchased for almost 120k. My point is that there is a middle ground for tools. But there are at least several forum members here that are dead set against anything but a truck brand. I find it funny that they cannot see this, especially when I read the fact about the real mechanic has no time to buy used tools on craigslist as they are to busy working.

 

[sandog_79]

I dont own any HF tools but i have a buddy who uses Genius brand tools and i have yet to hear any complaints. Could you please explain how a HF Ratchet and Socket can make the job "Harder and take longer" versus a snap on set?

Excellent point. If the wrench does not fail, how can 1 wrench vs another wrench take 5 minutes longer. The point is valid on some specialized diag tools but not basic hand tools. I'm sure if I was a mechanic reaching in and grabbing an expensive tool feels just tons better when other people are watching, but I would rather see a stack of 2500 100 dollar bills in there.

 

[sandog_79]

As snap-on says their IS a difference, tighter tolerances, better steel, etc etc

Notice it is snap on, the same company who acn buy a OCC Chopper. You should look at there profit statements, they are ridiculous.

 

[mrholeshot]

Notice it is snap on, the same company who acn buy a OCC Chopper. You should look at there profit statements, they are ridiculous.

Harbor Freight has their version of the OCC Old school chopper as well

 

[Hiball]

Excellent point. If the wrench does not fail, how can 1 wrench vs another wrench take 5 minutes longer. The point is valid on some specialized diag tools but not basic hand tools. I'm sure if I was a mechanic reaching in and grabbing an expensive tool feels just tons better when other people are watching, but I would rather see a stack of 2500 100 dollar bills in there.

Most definitely if your talking about Specially designed sockets and bent wrenches those tools are gonna save the user valuable time. Its what seperates the Truck guys from HF in that regards. Im tired of hearing about "Flat Rate" blah blah... My buddy works in his own shop. Its a 30' x 40' and He cant get the next customer in till he finishes the first one. It all boils down to time is money regardless if your working for yourself or paid by Ford.

 

[951casemechanic]

I just bought at HF a tig torch....they were made for one of their units but it will work on a 250 amp or so power source....all you need is a argon tank and regulator and you are ready to do stainless steel, mild steel and aluminum....it was on sale for $4.77.....I bought 2 of them.....FYI............

 

[rayzor32]

Your taking it a little to literally and missing the point.. doesnt have to be a wrench, socket or ratchet it could be anything. When that rusted bolt you are trying to get off is a little bit rounded and the HF wrench rounds it more and won't get it off and the snap on would have.. same goes for sockets. Or when the open end spreads and you spend half the day at the ER. I have snap on at work and craftsman/HF at home.. When I get home from work I notice the difference immediatly and I really appreciate my snap on tools. They get the job done at home but try using them professionally working flat rate and youll find out real quick it aint gonna cut it. When you use tools 50+hrs a week professionally trying to beat book times you WILL notice the difference and understand. The regular weekend warrior doesn't need snap on.. An amateur violinist doesn't need a stradivarius.. Mechanics aren't stupid like the general public thinks we are if we could make our living with 3k in HF tools instead of 30k in snap on, we definetly would be doing so.

 

[sandog_79]

I can see on a ratchet, but tell me on a 10 mm socket, what is the difference? I had a HF brad nailer, I got rid of it pretty fast and changed over to a bostitch. The reason, the nailer would begin to jam if left in the hot sun for a bit. SO in some tools, yeah you can tell the difference, in a mechanical movement like a ratchet, I can see, but in a non-mechanical movement, it gets a whole lot harder to explain.

 

[rayzor32]

snap on's sockets are thinner and can get into tighter spots.. the tolerances are tighter and will take off semi-rounded/rusted bolts what have you without ruining them more.. And maybe your in a tight spot and a 3/8" socket is the only thing that will fit and the bolts rusted in there and you have to put a 4 ft pipe on your breaker bar.. The snap on will probably survive, HF maybe not.. Situations the average joe would probably never have to deal with and therefore would not understand the need why.. And snap-ons sockets won't stretch with heavy use, after a while that HF 10mm might not be 10mm anymore.

I can't afford all snap-on tools, I DO use some HF at work.. stuff I don't use that often or things that doesn't really matter much who makes them..