Air conditioning only needed for 6000 square foot shop

[sol]

I just built a 6000 square foot shop (60x100) steal building 22 foot tall. Full Insulated. I believe r40 roof and r30 walls. My question is since I put infloor heating system in. Can I do a mini split AC only option ? If so what is biggest size you can get them , or how many would I need to cool the building in summers ? Any help / advice / or links to models greatly appreciated.

 

[bb29510]

chiller unit

 

[nadogail]

Was the building Stolen or is it made of Steel?

All HVAC questions need to provide the location, heat load, and Insulation details. HVAC needs are dependent on location.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I just built a 6000 square foot shop (60x100) steal building 22 foot tall. Full Insulated. I believe r40 roof and r30 walls. My question is since I put infloor heating system in. Can I do a mini split AC only option ? If so what is biggest size you can get them , or how many would I need to cool the building in summers ? Any help / advice / or links to models greatly appreciated.

Some companies do not sell AC only system. Even the ones that do, the cost difference is small.

For a building that large, you will probably 6 or more separate units that can be slaved together.

 

[930dreamer]

That's a big space to cool. Are there walled off areas/rooms?

 

[mike93lx]

Hvac questions without the location...you think the needs might be different for Vermont and Texas?

Regardless, you are going to need a lot

 

[930dreamer]

I see your way up north, how warm are your summers? I'd think you'd want the air conditioned air coming from as high up as possible(roof mounted)? Also there's the humidity to deal with.

 

[American Locomotive]

As mentioned, we need location, and how high is the ceiling?

Multiple minisplits could work. I would say there would be no reason to get an "AC only" split. They are almost all heatpumps these days, and you might even find having air heat compliments the infloor heat.

 

[pcmeiners]

To get an idea of your BTU cooling needs Google..... building heat loss calculator . For a building that size might be a good idea to have an HVAC engineer go over the figures you come up with.

"and you might even find having air heat compliments the in floor heat."

Not only compliment your in-floor heat, but less expensive than the fuel your using.
PS, Your R-values are very impressive. What is your slab insulation value?

 

[inphx]

I found the Vice Grip Garage video instal of building AC where he used package units and some flex duct i was unfamiliar with gave me some ideas that may bump me off split system. The duct seemed easy to hang and has integrated outlets.

 

[sol]

Ok to help with as much info. I’m in Toronto Ontario area so summers get very hot and humid.

The space is wide open. 22 foot tall ceiling.

As for the slab with in floor heating. Its 6 inch pour with 2 inch thick spray foam under slab.

I have provided a photo.

Also long story short. I also have radiant heat system on top of the infloor , which is why I thought of split air cond only. I’m just looking for the best way to do air con without a full venting system.

 

[mike93lx]

Are you looking for a diy system or guidance on what to expect from a hvac company?

I'd expect at least a few heads and many tons of cooling. Curious what a manual J calc says you need.

Hvac-calc is a software that can let you do that yourself for short money

 

[sol]

Are you looking for a diy system or guidance on what to expect from a hvac company?

I'd expect at least a few heads and many tons of cooling. Curious what a manual J calc says you need.

Hvac-calc is a software that can let you do that yourself for short money

I could go either. I figured I would like to be able to order units or whatever and sub out the installers.

 

[Jim greengo]

Multiple package units.

 

[930dreamer]

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[danski0224]

I just built a 6000 square foot shop (60x100) steal building 22 foot tall. Full Insulated. I believe r40 roof and r30 walls. My question is since I put infloor heating system in. Can I do a mini split AC only option ? If so what is biggest size you can get them , or how many would I need to cool the building in summers ? Any help / advice / or links to models greatly appreciated.

You should have enough money in the job to pay a professional for a proper heat load calculation and duct design.

Then you will have the answer to your question.

Otherwise, could be anywhere from 2 to 20 tons.

 

[mike93lx]

I could go either. I figured I would like to be able to order units or whatever and sub out the installers.

I wouldn't count on that. Many pros won't touch customer-purchased gear. Get alignment on that first

 

[BillK]

That is a very big area. My shop here at my business is 1800 sq ft (30x60 x 15 tall) Its got other warehouse units on each side and in back so it is very "tight" other than the roll up door. I have a 5 ton unit on the roof that does a good job. So I would guess you need three times as much. But I would definitely advise having an HVAC contractor tell you what you need.

I just looked at the weather and your temp is about the same as mine but your humidity is actually lower.

 

[American Locomotive]

I don't think minisplits would be appropriate for a building with ceilings that tall. You won't get proper air mixing, and servicing them will be difficult since they'll need to be so high up on the wall.

 

[karoc]

There are several ways, one way would be package units with down flow grills. If your roof can support weight. Or package units on ground where the main duct penetrates wall right below ceiling height. If don’t want heat buy them without heat strips. Or as others have said chiller with air handler unit that size for your bldg. But if it was me I would go through an engineer and commercial HVAC company. Which will involve running power to equipment. This is not a DIY project
Mini Split??? At 6k sq ft, it won’t be mini

 

[dcg9381]

If so what is biggest size you can get them , or how many would I need to cool the building in summers ? Any help / advice / or links to models greatly appreciated.

I think you can get them up to 48k, but they are highly directional unless multi-head. I'd consider installing several single units in the right area. My insulation is half yours, it's heat index 115 today. 2 x 24K for 2400 sqft.

But you should probably do a load calc. That big, there may be better options.

 

[sol]

You should have enough money in the job to pay a professional for a proper heat load calculation and duct design.

Then you will have the answer to your question.

Otherwise, could be anywhere from 2 to 20 tons.

Let me rephrase with a building this big I went well over budget. So anywhere I can save I’m all for it.

Im not against hiring pros which more than likely will happen. Im just trying to figure out if split units even possible and if so a ball park price for hardware.

 

[sol]

I think you can get them up to 48k, but they are highly directional unless multi-head. I'd consider installing several single units in the right area. My insulation is half yours, it's heat index 115 today. 2 x 24K for 2400 sqft.

But you should probably do a load calc. That big, there may be better options.

Thanks for the info. Yeah doing quick google the biggest I found was 36k btu. Do you have a link for 48k ones ? Also yeah I’m wondering how big them come. I would love to run less units overall if possible

 

[mike93lx]

Quick googling showed 5 ton mini splits for me

 

[bb29510]

on a bldg that big, just open all the doors and have some big *** fans

 

[sol]

on a bldg that big, just open all the doors and have some big *** fans

Hmm opening the doors will do nothing good. It will actually make it worse. We get very humid summers once you open the doors the heat rushes in and being so insulated it then holds the heat. Also opening the doors doesn’t provide AC? So thanks for the advice but it’s not a great solution for me.

 

[sol]

Quick googling showed 5 ton mini splits for me

The same google search for me on 5 ton just shows packages with like 4-5 units that equal 5 ton. I was hoping to use less units. The replies I’m getting here this mini split might not work unless I want to run 8-10 of them.

 

[mike93lx]

That just isn't the right space for minis.

You have a warehouse. It needs a commercial cooling solution

 

[sol]

You should have enough money in the job to pay a professional for a proper heat load calculation and duct design.

Then you will have the answer to your question.

Otherwise, could be anywhere from 2 to 20 tons.

In my

You should have enough money in the job to pay a professional for a proper heat load calculation and duct design.

Then you will have the answer to your question.

Otherwise, could be anywhere from 2 to 20 tons.

in my 2nd post I said no venting should have said I’m trying to avoid duct work if possible.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Multiple package units.

Package units are not very efficient. Their only benefit is they are easy to swap in and out, assuming you have a good spare nearby.

 

[theoldwizard1]

in my 2nd post I said no venting should have said I’m trying to avoid duct work if possible.

Then mini split is the way to go ! Single head per compressor are more efficient (lower cost of operation). With that much open space you are going to need some big fans in addition to the 6 or more air handlers.

 

[danski0224]

In my 2nd post I said no venting should have said I’m trying to avoid duct work if possible.

Let me rephrase with a building this big I went well over budget. So anywhere I can save I’m all for it.

Im not against hiring pros which more than likely will happen. Im just trying to figure out if split units even possible and if so a ball park price for hardware.

You still need a load calculation.

I really do not think you will get the job done with "mini splits"- certainly not for that space. Airflow/air distribution and air filtration come to mind.

And as far as the budget goes, it is not expensive to get a third party to do the load calculation. At least it wasn't, in the Before Times.

Alternatively, you can buy HVAC Calc Commercial and do it yourself.

Doing it right the first time is way cheaper than doing it the third time.

 

[sol]

You still need a load calculation.

I really do not think you will get the job done with "mini splits"- certainly not for that space. Airflow/air distribution and air filtration come to mind.

And as far as the budget goes, it is not expensive to get a third party to do the load calculation. At least it wasn't, in the Before Times.

Alternatively, you can buy HVAC Calc Commercial and do it yourself.

Doing it right the first time is way cheaper than doing it the third time.

Yeah I’m not against that. I guess what I should have said. I’m trying to avoid a full duct work system. Any hvac company I speak with regardless of size of air con. They all want full duct work system. That why I inquired about split for sake of wall mount no duct work needed. By the sounds of replies here mini split will not work

 

[mike93lx]

Yeah I’m not against that. I guess what I should have said. I’m trying to avoid a full duct work system. Any hvac company I speak with regardless of size of air con. They all want full duct work system. That why I inquired about split for sake of wall mount no duct work needed. By the sounds of replies here mini split will not work

If you have talked to multiple companies and they all say ducted, it might just mean that ducted is the right way to do it.
I get the drive to find less expensive options, but with that much consistency, I'd listen

 

[Jim greengo]

Package units are not very efficient. Their only benefit is they are easy to swap in and out, assuming you have a good spare nearby.

That's a lot of square footage to try and cover with anything else. Hahaha

 

[PoorUB]

You might get by with two or three 5 ton residential style condensing units and air handlers. As for duct it could be done with minimal duct work. Mount the air handlers so they blow across the space, or add just enough duct to aim the air across the pace. I am not convinced with multiple units that you would need a bunch of duct.

I am against the mini split idea. They will not throw the air across that large of space and you will need 4 or 5 of them, maybe more.

 

[karoc]

No duct work needed, just a high side wall grill and return air filter grill

 

[sol]

No duct work needed, just a high side wall grill and return air filter grill

Sorry what type/size unit is that ?

 

[danski0224]

Sorry what type/size unit is that ?

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[karoc]

Sorry what type/size unit is that ?

They come up to 5 ton, they are nice units. We have lot of these at work but mostly 3 ton units