Vinko
Well-known member
If this is true, I wonder if they've had difficulty with this. Surely, it's difficult to argue that this isn't in some way deceptive. I remember reading about this type of thing on the FTC website.
O.K. So I have to ask
- Thread starter Jamez
- Start date
If this is true, I wonder if they've had difficulty with this. Surely, it's difficult to argue that this isn't in some way deceptive. I remember reading about this type of thing on the FTC website.
woody 73
Well-known member
I like mac tools,but I seem to remember several tool truck owners were losing all that they worked hard for; because Mac was dicking them around.
The last few pliers that I bought I could have gotten cheaper at HF,only it had a mac name.
They seem to be going somewhat downhill so to speak.
The last few pliers that I bought I could have gotten cheaper at HF,only it had a mac name.
They seem to be going somewhat downhill so to speak.
crewchief888
Well-known member
most of my MAC tools are at least 15 years old.
ive never really had an issue with the tools themselves, but the dealers ive had over the last 25+ have not been the greatest.
over the last 12 years ive seen 4 or 5 dealers come and go from the area, and the one thats around now is probably the worst of the bunch.
wont return phone calls, shows up once or twice every 6 months, and then wonders why he dont sell anything....
i ended up replaceing a couple of MAC items with SO & matco, at least they show up every week or 2.
i'm a field service tech, and sometimes theres nobody at the shop during the day, so i dont blame the dealers for NOt stopping by every week. but at least they return phone calls if we do call them.
ive never really had an issue with the tools themselves, but the dealers ive had over the last 25+ have not been the greatest.
over the last 12 years ive seen 4 or 5 dealers come and go from the area, and the one thats around now is probably the worst of the bunch.
wont return phone calls, shows up once or twice every 6 months, and then wonders why he dont sell anything....
i ended up replaceing a couple of MAC items with SO & matco, at least they show up every week or 2.
i'm a field service tech, and sometimes theres nobody at the shop during the day, so i dont blame the dealers for NOt stopping by every week. but at least they return phone calls if we do call them.
When I inquired about them with my snap on dealer, he assured me that "to the best of his knowledge" the bluepoint ratchet wrenches were made overseas
Again, I asked my dealer when I bought the socket (5.5mm) and he was very sure that is was a Taiwan made socket. I have also been slowly replacing my worn out Westward 3/8 stuff with Mac Edge sockets, and again, there is absolutely no comparison between the two, the Mac Taiwan stuff blows the other out of the water.
I like to think that the tools will be made to the specifications of the company ordering them, and that COO really should not matter. After all, Snap on may make their tools in the USA, but I bet they do not get the raw materials from there as well....
Correct me if I'm wrong guys, I don't mind admitting it, but that is my take on it at the moment..
Sure, but why pay the premium for MAC when you can get the GW ratcheting wrenches for a song ($30 for a 10 piece metric set)... and as an added bonus you have a nationwide chain (or three) that will handle warranty service (vs one potentially crotchety driver who may or may not show up)?
I don't particularly care about COO, but if it's being made overseas for cheap I expect either a significant discount in price or increase in quality. MAC doesn't seem to be offering either. Whereas Toptul is at least offering the former and HF is offering... both (compared to Craftsman).
If your buying a GW 10 pice metric set for $30, your'e buying them off the back of someones truck..... a rusted out pickup..... or maybe the stuby set when it is on clearance at Canadian tire, like it is now, for $44, not $30, and its a 7 peice set, not 10
I am assuming HF is Harbor Freight, and I have never heard of Toptul. The Equivilent to HF were I live would be Princess Auto, and don't get me wrong, there are some good tools available there, but you DO get what you pay for.
Good luck getting the $10 set of line wrenches to work on a vehicl with 30 years of rust into it.
I just noticed this as well...
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...um%2B7-pc%2BFlex%2BWrench%2BSet.jsp?locale=en
What was the REGULAR price on the ones that you bought? notice the Canadian Tire ones are regular $114.99. That is a price that holds true even at PA, and I would never buy a PA ratchet again, been there, got hurt, never doing it again...
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...um%2B7-pc%2BFlex%2BWrench%2BSet.jsp?locale=en
What was the REGULAR price on the ones that you bought? notice the Canadian Tire ones are regular $114.99. That is a price that holds true even at PA, and I would never buy a PA ratchet again, been there, got hurt, never doing it again...
funny though... this is the mentioned stubby set no longer on clearance...
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...%2BStubby%2BGear%2BWrench%2BSet.jsp?locale=en
That is why I don't like using sale price when discussing these topics. The markup in tools in general has to around 100% at the retail level. Irregardless of vendor.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...%2BStubby%2BGear%2BWrench%2BSet.jsp?locale=en
That is why I don't like using sale price when discussing these topics. The markup in tools in general has to around 100% at the retail level. Irregardless of vendor.
I grew up in prime Mac country. At one time I lived less than 20 minutes from the Sabina plant. I had friends that worked at the office in WCHO as engineers. I had a deep loyalty towards Mac. When Stanley bought them out they wouldn't give the dealers tools to sell, stiffed them on the warranty, and ran off most of the good dealers and employees. I know a member of SO management that jokes that everyone who works in management in the tool industry today used to work for Mac. They say they know thousands of people who worked for Mac, but don't know anyone who works for them now. The Stanley takeover permanently turned a lot of people off of Mac. That was followed by a huge COO where Stanley falsely marked tools. Now they don't lie about it so much as they just hide or deny changes in COO. For those of us who saw Mac Tools as part of the family, they'll never be the same. Oh, and the Sabina plant is going/gone now, too.
Why not? None of the tool trucks offer discounts like this, MAC included. Even at full price, they're still a small fraction of the cost of the MAC set ($280). Sears had the GW set for, what, $80? Amazon has them for under $45. You could buy three sets of the GW tools from Sears and a six pack, and still come out to less than the cost of the MAC ratcheting wrenches.
If you're going to be a reseller of badge engineered products (Chinese or not; junk or not), someone will undercut your price. That said, MAC using USA as part of their brand name to intentionally deceive people is reason enough for me to swear off their tools.
As for the quality of HF, I'd eyeball the threads comparing their tools to more prestigious brands. So far their ratchets have done very well. We'll see about the sockets soon enough. As for Toptul, they're a premium Taiwanese tool manufacturer whose tools may very well be made at the same factories Stanley uses... but without the markup.
On the subject of truck brand tools not having sales, take a look at this...
http://catalogs.shoplocal.com/macto...pagenumber=1&circularid=16494&batchid=1201415
I asked my dealer about it, he didn't even want the trade in, even if he did, I'd happily give him my $40 in Westward **** for the upgrade.
I do realize though, that some dealers may not be so good to deal with.
I will never deal with sears, but that is a personal decision. None of the stores around me ever have anything in stock, and in my line of work, I cannot afford to be waiting a week to order a replacement, which also puts me at odds with the online sources.
It is very possible that HF has decent quality tools, I unfortunately can not say from first hand experience as we do not have HF in Canada. Same goes for Toptul. As for Princess Auto, when I first got into the trade I bought a lot of their tools, and very quickly found out that they do not hold up to day to day use. At least not their sockets, wrenches, and ratchets. They were replaced within the first year with Mastercraft Maximum stuff, when that stuff wore out and they would not warranty it because it was not broken, simply worn out, I bought Westward because I could get it from my jobber without leaving the shop to buy it, now I am replacing that stuff with Snap on/Mac as I need it. Mainly Mac at first, lately though, it has been more snap on, as I too, do have a problem with paying the same price for Tawain tools that used to be USA.
I'm talking a span of only 6 years of day to day use. With what I paid multiple times for the lesser brands - I could have bought the truck stuff in the first year and came out ahead.
http://catalogs.shoplocal.com/macto...pagenumber=1&circularid=16494&batchid=1201415
I asked my dealer about it, he didn't even want the trade in, even if he did, I'd happily give him my $40 in Westward **** for the upgrade.
I do realize though, that some dealers may not be so good to deal with.
I will never deal with sears, but that is a personal decision. None of the stores around me ever have anything in stock, and in my line of work, I cannot afford to be waiting a week to order a replacement, which also puts me at odds with the online sources.
It is very possible that HF has decent quality tools, I unfortunately can not say from first hand experience as we do not have HF in Canada. Same goes for Toptul. As for Princess Auto, when I first got into the trade I bought a lot of their tools, and very quickly found out that they do not hold up to day to day use. At least not their sockets, wrenches, and ratchets. They were replaced within the first year with Mastercraft Maximum stuff, when that stuff wore out and they would not warranty it because it was not broken, simply worn out, I bought Westward because I could get it from my jobber without leaving the shop to buy it, now I am replacing that stuff with Snap on/Mac as I need it. Mainly Mac at first, lately though, it has been more snap on, as I too, do have a problem with paying the same price for Tawain tools that used to be USA.
I'm talking a span of only 6 years of day to day use. With what I paid multiple times for the lesser brands - I could have bought the truck stuff in the first year and came out ahead.
Tool truck stuff does go on sale, sure. But that's still a difference of 40% (MAC) vs 80%+ discount for the GW stuff. That's still a pretty hefty premium.
As for Toptul in Canada:
http://www.thetoolchest.ca/
I had a real, real good Mac dealer about 10 years ago, only guy that would visit our shop. He always had a great inventory, excellent service, warrantied everything. Made a deal when you needed a break, would cut you slack on payments if you had a tough week.
One day some guys from Matco came in, talked to all of us, told us they had a guy that was going to have us on his route.
Our response was basically good luck, our Mac guy has this place sewed up.
Fast forward about three weeks.....our great Mac guy is now a Matco dealer.
Boy did they surprise us!
One day some guys from Matco came in, talked to all of us, told us they had a guy that was going to have us on his route.
Our response was basically good luck, our Mac guy has this place sewed up.
Fast forward about three weeks.....our great Mac guy is now a Matco dealer.
Boy did they surprise us!
Eldogg
Well-known member
I have bought a lot Mac Tools over the almost 20 years I've been buying from the tool truck guys. No problems here other than I haven't seen a Mac guy or girl in over 5 years. I would love to get some stuff replaced.
atari
Well-known member
Oh...Mac Tools? I thought everyone was referring to these...
......thats what my computer looks like, What, i dont get it.
Vinko
Well-known member
I can't offer a correction, but I wouldn't be surprised if SO was using USA steel. (Armstrong has the tag: "Made in USA from Forge to Finish"). Anyway, in the USA, there's still a strong market for the steel round that I saw in the SO videos, and there are high-quality mills in the USA that make the stuff. It's not super-expensive either.
hilld
Well-known member
supertooljunkie
Well-known member
I have no problem with MAC tools, other than the COO controversy and the fact none of the trucks I have been on in the past year has any stock.
The only Mac dealer I had was in 1982-83 and he had a truck full of stuff. He sold out and moved away. Next time I was on a Mac truck, was 5-6 years later to get a ratchet fixed. The screw holding the selector fell out. I found a dealer in a minimart. He put a new selector and screw in, gave a catalog, a couple of stickers, and a catalog. Charged me $1. He had a truck full of stuff.
A year ago I broke a 3/8" drive mm universal socket. Found a truck in Lithonia, GA and asked him to warranty. He didn't have it, but called the district manager and got phone numbers for 2 dealers in my area. He even called them for me while I waited. No one answered, so he gave me the numbers. Nice guy. Went out of his way. Good customer service.
For two weeks I called the other two dealers everyday. No return phone calls. I left messages, told them I would meet them at their convenience and time. No return call.
I was sent to work in Pennsylvania over the winter and leaving for the job site one morning, saw a MAC truck and followed him. He had the socket on his truck, but really didn't want to warranty it. This guy had no stock. He had two or three ratchets, but not much else.
I don't know if MAC has lowered the standards for their new dealer financially to start and still screws them, like in the past, but you can't sell what you don't have. A tool truck is supposed to have tools, not vast empty spaces.
The only Mac dealer I had was in 1982-83 and he had a truck full of stuff. He sold out and moved away. Next time I was on a Mac truck, was 5-6 years later to get a ratchet fixed. The screw holding the selector fell out. I found a dealer in a minimart. He put a new selector and screw in, gave a catalog, a couple of stickers, and a catalog. Charged me $1. He had a truck full of stuff.
A year ago I broke a 3/8" drive mm universal socket. Found a truck in Lithonia, GA and asked him to warranty. He didn't have it, but called the district manager and got phone numbers for 2 dealers in my area. He even called them for me while I waited. No one answered, so he gave me the numbers. Nice guy. Went out of his way. Good customer service.
For two weeks I called the other two dealers everyday. No return phone calls. I left messages, told them I would meet them at their convenience and time. No return call.
I was sent to work in Pennsylvania over the winter and leaving for the job site one morning, saw a MAC truck and followed him. He had the socket on his truck, but really didn't want to warranty it. This guy had no stock. He had two or three ratchets, but not much else.
I don't know if MAC has lowered the standards for their new dealer financially to start and still screws them, like in the past, but you can't sell what you don't have. A tool truck is supposed to have tools, not vast empty spaces.
caper
Well-known member
I used to buy Mac stuff,had a dealer who showed up every wednesday like clockwork.He had an awful pile of hats,t-shirts and jackets but that's all he could ever get for stock.No tools.I'd order what I wanted and wait 3-4 mths for it to come in.When the bait and switch with taiwan stuff started that was the final straw for me.Many times the price is equal or more than Snap on so why would I want to pay those prices for Canadian Tire quality?If I'm buying Asian tools I'm not paying 5 times as much just to have a Mac name on them and waiting 4mths to get them when I can drive down town on lunch and pick up the same quality tools.Sorry Stanree,I'm not that stupid.My Mac ratchet was my go to ratchet for years when I had a regular dealer to rebuild it for me every month but once he stopped coming around and I ran out of kits it didn't last long.It was a real POS,needed rebuilding every month or two.