Chinese Made Craftsman Professional Wrenches

[kythri]

MUCH less when my uncle retired from the ford plant 15 years ago he was making 30.23/hr. My cousin still works there and they only make 32.03/hr now, a $1.80 raise in 15 years?

Only $32.03/hr? ONLY?!

This is exactly why we pay far too much for domestically manufactured goods.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

i think if you factor in inflation you'll find that the american worker makes less today. we have less buying power.

i know that i make about twice what i did in 1980 but consumer prices have tripled.

I see your point. I guess what I was trying to imply is that everyone makes more money than they used to. The military in 1980 made a significant amount less than I make today. I'm sure even with inflation, my dollar goes much further than a Marine's of the same rank in 1980. I would guess everyone makes much more than they used to. Maybe it isn't a proportionate increase across the board. I'm no economist, so I couldn't say whether or not we are better off now or in 1980. I can tell you that everyone that complains that things don't cost what they used to is out of their mind.

 

[matthew]

Here's a question - you walk into a hardware store and spend $100. How much of that $100 do you think actually goes to the manufacturer, and how much of it is lost in the distrubtion chain?

I'd guess that about 30% goes to the manufacturer (and only about 1/3 of that is the labour cost to make the product - the rest is material and overhead). More efficient distribution would go a long way toward cost competitiveness.

 

[jkeyser14]

MUCH less when my uncle retired from the ford plant 15 years ago he was making 30.23/hr. My cousin still works there and they only make 32.03/hr now, a $1.80 raise in 15 years? IF the day ever comes that they hire new people they'll be getting paid 14/hr with reduced benefits, thats over a 50% paycut!!! Why? So they can compete with damn toyota! Who house their plants in anti-union hick towns!! Toyota will NEVER build a plant in a town like detroit or buffalo. And THATS every industry our wages and standards of living are falling one by one.. gm, ford, chrysler, delphi, american axle. We have to lower our wages to compete with the damn yellow guy that will work for 25 cents an hour!!! As the guy above said before you vote with your wallet!!!

No, what's really sad is the engineers who went to school for half their life and racked up a lot of student loans and who actually design the cars, set up the manufacturing lines, etc. don't get paid a whole lot more than the union employees who are lucky if they have a high school diploma.

I'm 100% anti-union. Unions had their time and their place and should have been killed off a long time ago. If you don't like how your employer treats you, do like every other human being and find a new job. Instead these people use it as an excuse to extort money from big companies when their job doesn't really deserve it.

No offense, but your cousin doesn't deserve to get paid $32 an hour to put some screws in an engine all day long.

 

[SocketDeviler]

I'm a "big-and-tall" kinda guy. I'm 6'9" tall, and I'm at about 375lbs right now (down from 400 and still dropping, go diet!). I've never really made a point of looking for US-made clothing that fits my frame, but I'll tell you what - it doesn't exist in any convenient single location, like a big-and-tall specialty store or big-and-tall section of another store.

As a tall fella, though not as tall as you, I feel your pain. I rarely come across US made clothes at least not locally, it's a bit easier online. The best I've been able to do lately is buy US made Thorlo socks (pricey but worth it if you buy them at the right place) and US assembled New Balance sneakers.

Faced with a choice of garden hose couplers at Ace Hardware yesterday I went with the last starter pack of US made couplers dated 2001. All newer stock was imported even thought we still make a lot of plastics here.

Just for perspective I check everything to see where it was made...almost obsessively so. I'm genuinely happy to find US made products if they were well made (not always the case). As a garage sale rat I can tell you we made a lot more here than we do now. Even more mind blowing is going over old Sears catalogs and by old I mean early 1900s. We made so much stuff that Sears once had separate factories for clothing, furniture, etc... Tools were but a small fraction.

 

[Coach James]

I see your point. I guess what I was trying to imply is that everyone makes more money than they used to. The military in 1980 made a significant amount less than I make today. I'm sure even with inflation, my dollar goes much further than a Marine's of the same rank in 1980. I would guess everyone makes much more than they used to. Maybe it isn't a proportionate increase across the board. I'm no economist, so I couldn't say whether or not we are better off now or in 1980. I can tell you that everyone that complains that things don't cost what they used to is out of their mind.

1950 my dad was with the 1st Cavalry Division in Japan on occupation duty. When the Korean War broke out they were sent and got there 10 days after the fighting started.

He had been in the service for 3 years. His paycheck, in total, was $49 a month. That is ~$950 in today's dollars. Now, guys coming out of basic are making almost $2,000 a month plus a lot more if sent overseas with much of it being non-taxable income.

1985 give or take a year, half my family worked in the steel mills around Pittsburgh. One of my cousins said he wasn't making that much money at the time. He said his pay around 1985 was "only" $40,000 a year plus he had zero deductable medical, dental and vision for him and his family.

Coach

 

[SocketDeviler]

Here's some humbling perspective. These shots are from a reproduction of a 1909 Sears catalog. Click on the photos to make larger.

 

[back2class]

Along with the majority of all corporate ****** decisions this one was probably made by the bean-counters plain and simple. This is what happens when the finance guys are in charge, decisions are made to increase the "bottom line" or the "shareholder value". Probaly getting ready to peddle Craftsman off to the highest bidder and they figure if thay can slip in the China production and show an increased profit margin while the Average Joe still hasn't discovered they've been douped they can make a killing on the sale of the Craftsman name.

This post about sums it up. Expect Craftsman to be spun off beofre too long.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

MUCH less when my uncle retired from the ford plant 15 years ago he was making 30.23/hr. My cousin still works there and they only make 32.03/hr now, a $1.80 raise in 15 years? IF the day ever comes that they hire new people they'll be getting paid 14/hr with reduced benefits, thats over a 50% paycut!!! Why? So they can compete with damn toyota! Who house their plants in anti-union hick towns!! Toyota will NEVER build a plant in a town like detroit or buffalo. And THATS every industry our wages and standards of living are falling one by one.. gm, ford, chrysler, delphi, american axle. We have to lower our wages to compete with the damn yellow guy that will work for 25 cents an hour!!! As the guy above said before you vote with your wallet!!!

As someone who lives in the south (more than likely in one of your "hick" towns) I can honestly tell you where you can stick your attitude. Those companies are moving to places where people appreciate a job, work hard for their money and don't complain about every little thing that goes wrong. Our TEACHERS don't make $65,000 a year and they are required to have a college education. When you complain about what is basically an unskilled labor job making $65,000 a year, you have a warped outlook on life.

There are a LOT of people out there right now who would be damn proud to HAVE a job much less one that paid $32.00 an hour that they could be trained for in less than 3 months. I am very much anti-union after working in one union plant where I was forced to do my job and a lazy old farts at the same time. When I complained about it, they said he had "seniority" and would always make more than I would and that he would have to "screw a donkey on the line in front of everyone" to get fired. I quit the next day and hunted a career where I could advance based upon my ability and drive.

That is the main difference I see between the "old line" towns up north and the new centers in the south. Detroit worker thinking is that the company "owes" me something and down here, we "earn" something.

 

[Flash21]

I don't know what is wrong with the setup they had going:

Evolv: HF competition / Joe Homeowner that doesn't care

Craftsman: Solid, lifetime guarantee, USA made mid-priced

Craftsman Pro: Bridging the gap between Craftsman and the truck/industrial brands

I thought it was great setup and they should market it like this stronger - even bringing in more 'Pro' line like sockets. As mentioned in the SK case, I would rather see prices go up on Cman and Cman Pro to keep the USA quality there and discount the Evolv as much as possible.

The only problem I see is that many say too many people don't care - and if Evolv started crushing Cman and Cman Pro when people are voting with their dollar.

 

[tyreguy25]

I know you posed this to Krusty, but I can't be the only one that truly DOESN'T see that the ratchets ****.

I use these things on a pretty regular basis (FULL DISCLOSURE: I'M A WEEKEND WRENCHER WORKING ON SEVERAL PROJECTS. I'M NOT A PROFESSIONAL MECHANIC. IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER, BUT SOME THINK IT DOES.) and I've seriously had little to no issues with these things. I've got raised panels, I've got the "pro" full-polish handles, I've got the next-gen/thin-profiles, I've got the RHFT jobs. They're all fantastic. They work great. They don't break. They don't slip. My experiences with these do NOT jibe with the recent ratchet shoot-out where the thing self-reversed with alarming regularity.



I don't think it's jingoism to support any of the Big 3 automakers, either. The so-called "imports" (so-called because, let's face it, the "domestic" automakers import as much, if not more, of their autos into the US as the "imports" do, and the "imports" manufacture as much, if not more, of their autos as the "domestics" do) typically don't produce anything I want. I *LIKE* Ford trucks. I *DO NOT LIKE* Chevy trucks, Dodge trucks, Toyota trucks. I *LIKE* Ford sedans, Chevy sedans, Dodge sedans. I don't like most "import" sedans.

The imports are great cars, sure, but I don't think the domestics are any slouches. My parents and grandparents have never owned an import. I had a Suzuki Samurai for a while, and I had a Nissan 720. Both were great/fun little rides, but they needed just as many repairs, and had just as many breakdowns as the domestics I've owned (and continue to own).

Conversely, a buddy of mine is all Toyota. He has a '79? Hilux, an '82 Corolla, a '92 MR2 and an '05 IS300. None of these have been any shining example of hyper-reliability. They're cars. Things break, things get fixed. His do so about as often as mine.

Do you use your 44811 very hard? Try putting over 100 foot pounds of torque on a fastener. It will reverse on you quicker than ****. They are abysmal compared to your older 44811s. Find the older ones you can and horde them so you have a descent, cheap ratchet that you can warranty out (oh no, I said it didn't I?) if it breaks and have a backup in your box that is brand new.

this is exactly what i'm talking about...........and it proves my point.

we justify our support of foriegn products by price point. quality? sure the imports are better than they used to be but the money we save now has a long term effect on our economy. wake up america!

It still does.

Unfortunately, what it normally means today is overpriced average quality products typically produced by overpaid low-skilled labor, and many people have realized that that there's little value in that.

Those "how it's made" videos that have been posted recently (great vids, by the way!) - how much do you figure the folks in those videos are paid for picking something up out of one bin, and putting it on hooks in a machine?

MUCH less when my uncle retired from the ford plant 15 years ago he was making 30.23/hr. My cousin still works there and they only make 32.03/hr now, a $1.80 raise in 15 years? IF the day ever comes that they hire new people they'll be getting paid 14/hr with reduced benefits, thats over a 50% paycut!!! Why? So they can compete with damn toyota! Who house their plants in anti-union hick towns!! Toyota will NEVER build a plant in a town like detroit or buffalo. And THATS every industry our wages and standards of living are falling one by one.. gm, ford, chrysler, delphi, american axle. We have to lower our wages to compete with the damn yellow guy that will work for 25 cents an hour!!! As the guy above said before you vote with your wallet!!!

As said above nothings made in this country anymore and that's why their is no jobs. Half of MAC's tools are made in taiwan and snap-on is starting to outsource more and more by the day. If it aint made in the usa I tell the tool guys I aint buying it. If I was going to buy an asian tool id go to harbor freight and pick it up at a cheap price. Cheap tool = cheap price, and they are trying to get a PREMIUM price for a whoever-a-nese made tool

You should probably check your racist comments at the door. There are members of this board of Oriental descent and that was a tasteless comment.

$32 an hour is fricking insane. They do not do hard, physical labor all day. They do not teach your children. They are the embodiment of why education in this nation suffered for twenty years. Kids see these barely educated people sitting on assembly lines making over $25 an hour screwing a dashboard on and think, why the hell should I go to college? I can make $90-150k per year sitting on my *** working in a car plant.

To push a damned broom you are making over $20 an hour. That is work that tests your mind and makes sure you know something. Nope, that is brainless, mind-numbing work that you are making $200 A DAY to do. This is why we have fewer and fewer domestic goods and more and more imported goods. If the "import" companies can employ someone for $15 an hour, why is $32 necessary? Simple, that's the way it's always been done.

 

[blarf]

As a tall fella, though not as tall as you, I feel your pain. I rarely come across US made clothes at least not locally, it's a bit easier online. The best I've been able to do lately is buy US made Thorlo socks (pricey but worth it if you buy them at the right place) and US assembled New Balance sneakers.

As a not tall fella, I buy American when I can (ex American Apparel solid color t-shirts in bulk which are not prohibitively expensive at about $10-$12 per on sale), but it's tough. For years I used to buy Levi's, even after they outsourced their manufacturing. It's still a San Francisco based company, so that counts, right? Ugh. The quality has absolutely gone to **** over the past couple years, and the prices have only gone up.

For non boutique clothing items, there really is a lack of US made stuff... altho my suit jacket was made in Canada. Still have some Apple stuff that was made in the US, but let's not forget what a mess San Jose (and much of Silicon Valley) is because of the nasty chemicals used in high tech manufacturing.

 

[blarf]

MUCH less when my uncle retired from the ford plant 15 years ago he was making 30.23/hr. My cousin still works there and they only make 32.03/hr now, a $1.80 raise in 15 years? IF the day ever comes that they hire new people they'll be getting paid 14/hr with reduced benefits, thats over a 50% paycut!!! Why?

Let's not forget that Ford is also pitting you against Mexican union workers who will work for about $2/hr.

Edit: Sorry. $2.25/hr.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/th...-wages-up-its-been-to-push-the-us-wages-down/

 

[SocketDeviler]

Still have some Apple stuff that was made in the US, but let's not forget what a mess San Jose (and much of Silicon Valley) is because of the nasty chemicals used in high tech manufacturing.

There is that dark side of mfg. I've noticed that's rarely discussed when this topic comes up. It's a large part of why so much mfg. has been outsourced. Back in the 90s I used to make deliveries to the mostly defunct Fairless Hills steel plant. Miles and miles of diseased looking land.

I recently watched a documentary called Mardi Gras: Made In China. You want to see a job where the employees have a short life span check that out. Incredibly unhealthy working conditions to make **** that is just thrown away. I can only imagine the environmental impact.

 

[sheslostcontrol]

Makes me sick to my stomach.

same here. i went by Harbor Freight friday afternoon just to look. so much cheap stuff, foreign made..

and we wonder why we don't have any good paying manufacturing jobs here anymore.. blame it on either party to you're blue (or red) in the face. from where i sit this is our fault for demanding cheaper and cheaper stuff.. and not supporting the dwindling number of US manufacturers.

 

[toolnut]

Just for the heck of it, I emailed Sears last night and asked about the C-man Pro wrenches. This is the answer I got.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for contacting Sears.com. We thank you for your interest in the Craftsman Professional 13 pc. Metric 12 pt. Full Polish Combination Wrench Set, Sears Item# 00945964000. This set is manufactured in the USA. We hope you have foundthis information helpful and we look forward to your response!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Coach

Wow! They don't even know yet?!?! Kind of like the Twilight Zone!

Of course the news might not have been sent on to the India customer service center yet....

 

[babyman1737]

Can someone atleast post up some photographic evidence of the Chinese made Craftsman Pro wrenches? The combo ones being discussed here, not the elbows.

 

[jay50]

same here. i went by Harbor Freight friday afternoon just to look. so much cheap stuff, foreign made..

and we wonder why we don't have any good paying manufacturing jobs here anymore.. blame it on either party to you're blue (or red) in the face. from where i sit this is our fault for demanding cheaper and cheaper stuff.. and not supporting the dwindling number of US manufacturers.

Sad prospect for future generations whose only means of livelyhood will be working for Mao-mart of MickeyDees......

 

[Hiball]

Can someone atleast post up some photographic evidence of the Chinese made Craftsman Pro wrenches? The combo ones being discussed here, not the elbows.

I visited the sears store in mid rivers mall in stlouis today and although they didn't have any pro wrench sets in stock that where marked china the manager confirmed they are coming. The reasoning his boss gave him was that the profit margin wasn't high enough with the current production, that is word for word his quote.

 

[Hiball]

I also love how everyone is "up in arms" over the alleged $32 dollars a hour and frankly there isn't a one of you who wouldn't love to have that job. Secondly that was a negotiated wage that was given to them from there employer. There are numerous jobs across America that make $30 plus a hour, power plants, chemical plants etc... And don't give me the "they have work harder" because I know people who work at both and it's not the case at all. I'm sorry some of you are bent that a high school education is responsible for a great paying job. Btw $32 dollars a hour is no where near 90k-150k a year. You guys make me Lol, you affiliate 1 high paying union job and immediately start grouping everyone together as the evil unions who are killing manufacturing in America. Knowledge is power, some should really do some research into subjects before getting so emo here.

 

[bchee]

I don't know what is wrong with the setup they had going:

Evolv: HF competition / Joe Homeowner that doesn't care

Craftsman: Solid, lifetime guarantee, USA made mid-priced

Craftsman Pro: Bridging the gap between Craftsman and the truck/industrial brands

I thought it was great setup and they should market it like this stronger - even bringing in more 'Pro' line like sockets. As mentioned in the SK case, I would rather see prices go up on Cman and Cman Pro to keep the USA quality there and discount the Evolv as much as possible.

The only problem I see is that many say too many people don't care - and if Evolv started crushing Cman and Cman Pro when people are voting with their dollar.

Don't forget about when they used to sell "Companion" tools

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

I also love how everyone is "up in arms" over the alleged $32 dollars a hour and frankly there isn't a one of you who wouldn't love to have that job. Secondly that was a negotiated wage that was given to them from there employer. There are numerous jobs across America that make $30 plus a hour, power plants, chemical plants etc... And don't give me the "they have work harder" because I know people who work at both and it's not the case at all. I'm sorry some of you are bent that a high school education is responsible for a great paying job. Btw $32 dollars a hour is no where near 90k-150k a year. You guys make me Lol, you affiliate 1 high paying union job and immediately start grouping everyone together as the evil unions who are killing manufacturing in America. Knowledge is power, some should really do some research into subjects before getting so emo here.

Steve,

The hourly rate of a union worker is not "given" by the employee but extorted from the company by the threat of a strike from the union. I guess it's how you look at it.... We have two parties in politics, union and non-union, offshore and domestic, white collar and blue collar and every subject will have two sides. We will never see eye to eye on this subject. My biggest complaint about the OP was about his "non-union hick town" comment.

When someone complains about a non skilled union job that averages better than $25.00 per hour, I have a problem with it. When he then complains about someone (more than likely here in the south) "taking" good paying union jobs, it pisses me off. If he would be willing to make the same concessions that workers here would be thrilled to get, he would more than likely keep his job. His uncle and many other car plant workers are making more money than a LOT on engineers that I know of with masters degrees.

Those same engineers are happy right now if they even have a job. I know that you keep talking about the union dock workers unloading ships full of Chinese goods to the teamsters union guys hauling it around the country creating "jobs" but that still does not equate to having the preliminary product made here, sub assemblies made here and a final products BUILT here in America. We have factories that are very productive but the costs of benefits and wages are bumping American workers out of a job and forcing production overseas or into the south.

 

[blarf]

The problem I have about people complaining about high paid unskilled labor is this: where would those highly trained engineers be without people to manufacture their products? Skilled labor or no, production line workers are critical to the success of a product.

 

[kythri]

I also love how everyone is "up in arms" over the alleged $32 dollars a hour and frankly there isn't a one of you who wouldn't love to have that job.

As a network engineer with a large amount of education (both college and specialized) who makes a fair amount less than $32/hr, yes, I wish that I could work a job that required no specialized skills, had little-to-no actual responsibility, and still make more than I'm making now.

Secondly that was a negotiated wage that was given to them from there employer.

Negotiated or extorted? Strikes and walkouts to demand more pay, more benefits, more time off aren't negotiation tactics. They're extortion.

There are numerous jobs across America that make $30 plus a hour, power plants, chemical plants etc... And don't give me the "they have work harder" because I know people who work at both and it's not the case at all. I'm sorry some of you are bent that a high school education is responsible for a great paying job. Btw $32 dollars a hour is no where near 90k-150k a year. You guys make me Lol, you affiliate 1 high paying union job and immediately start grouping everyone together as the evil unions who are killing manufacturing in America. Knowledge is power, some should really do some research into subjects before getting so emo here.

$66K/year is nothing to laugh about. And it's not "1 high paying union job" - it's the vast majority of OVERPAID union jobs.

 

[kythri]

The problem I have about people complaining about high paid unskilled labor is this: where would those highly trained engineers be without people to manufacture their products? Skilled labor or no, production line workers are critical to the success of a product.

Hence why we're finding more and more of these production line workers overseas.

 

[a390st]

I really believe the problem with Craftsman is one that Sears has perpetuated. They made really good tools at a good price. They needed to make higher margin so the tool quality was sacrificed a bit to hold a price point. The tools had to compete with other tools of similar quality that were foreign made. They had to hold a price point to compete with those tools. Costs went up so quality has to be sacrificed a bit more. Sears generally ***** so they don't have the foot traffic they once did, combined with the fact that malls decreased in popularity. They have sales to draw people in, and price the tools below what they really need them to sell for. People get used to the sales and hold out on buying the tools at regular prices.

I don't see how anyone could complain about the prices of Craftsman tools when they take into account the prices averaged over time. The sales bring the average daily prices down considerably. On top of that, if you look at the sales volume multiplied by the actual sale price of each unit, you would probably see that the tools average much cheaper than regular price. What sort of quality can you expect when you are getting wrenches and sockets for little more than $1-2 per unit. I'm just sad to see that they haven't had better management and market placement/marketing over the years to keep the same status they once had.

 

[Hiball]

Steve,

The hourly rate of a union worker is not "given" by the employee but extorted from the company by the threat of a strike from the union. I guess it's how you look at it.... We have two parties in politics, union and non-union, offshore and domestic, white collar and blue collar and every subject will have two sides. We will never see eye to eye on this subject. My biggest complaint about the OP was about his "non-union hick town" comment..

Im not here to change anyones mind or political views on labor, But i would like for both sides to be represented and for future reference not all unions have the power to strike or have ever used it.

When someone complains about a non skilled union job that averages better than $25.00 per hour, I have a problem with it. When he then complains about someone (more than likely here in the south) "taking" good paying union jobs, it pisses me off. If he would be willing to make the same concessions that workers here would be thrilled to get, he would more than likely keep his job. His uncle and many other car plant workers are making more money than a LOT on engineers that I know of with masters degrees..

Again.. Everyone here wants to use the UAW Autoworkers as the posterchild of union jobs. The Power they have "Was" powerfull for along time and when times where good the auto companies didnt have a problem paying the price or Heavy handed bonuses to the numerous Vp's and Ceo. Its amazing how people are quick to jump on labor/Union workers when times get tough.

Those same engineers are happy right now if they even have a job. I know that you keep talking about the union dock workers unloading ships full of Chinese goods to the teamsters union guys hauling it around the country creating "jobs" but that still does not equate to having the preliminary product made here, sub assemblies made here and a final products BUILT here in America. We have factories that are very productive but the costs of benefits and wages are bumping American workers out of a job and forcing production overseas or into the south.

I work with tons of guys who went to college and like anything else in life sometimes we get too many educated folks in certain career paths. It ***** but its life i suppose, Everything makes a full circle eventually and even in the labor sector the strongest union in the world finally figured out that they would have to make concessions to keep there employer afloat.

As a network engineer with a large amount of education (both college and specialized) who makes a fair amount less than $32/hr, yes, I wish that I could work a job that required no specialized skills, had little-to-no actual responsibility, and still make more than I'm making now.

Again, Im sorry your disgruntled about the career choice you made in regards to your financial gain. I see/work with many guys that have a college education and as a Locomotive Engineer with some senority i make a good living and didnt have a lick of secondary education outside on the job training. Does that make you better than a High school grad because you have a college education? Sorry it doesnt... You make alot of assumptions and like to group all Unions jobs into "Non skilled labor" with "No responsibility" Its a uneducated, biased, opinion and you dont have a lick of proof to document your statement. Im not dumb enough to think that all the UAW workers are Hard jobs but restassured they do have responsibilities and guidlines they have to follow per Federal Guidlines on producing Vehicles. Sometimes you get paid for what you know and sometimes you pick the wrong Knowledge to Learn, Its Life and it will go on.

$66K/year is nothing to laugh about. And it's not "1 high paying union job" - it's the vast majority of OVERPAID union jobs.

LOL.. Again that statement is totally untrue and you are grouping a entire country of Union workers based on a claim that a UAW worker makes $32 a hour. I wonder if our Union Carry all van drivers are overpaid that make $10 bucks a hour? After reading your post again ive come to the conclusion that you feel since you have a College education anyone who is union and makes more than you is "Overpaid" regardless of there responsibility.

 

[kythri]

Again, Im sorry your disgruntled about the career choice you made in regards to your financial gain.

I'm not. I'm quite happy with my choices and my career path. I'd simply like to make more money.

It doesn't make me disgruntled or unhappy to hold the opinion that union button pushers and broom drivers make far too much money, or the opinion that union labor, in general, is overpaid for what they do, and contribute greatly to the pricing situations we're discussing.

If you're union, you likely disagree.

I see/work with many guys that have a college education and as a Locomotive Engineer with some senority i make a good living and didnt have a lick of secondary education outside on the job training. Does that make you better than a High school grad because you have a college education? Sorry it doesnt... You make alot of assumptions and like to group all Unions jobs into "Non skilled labor" with "No responsibility" Its a uneducated, biased, opinion and you dont have a lick of proof to document your statement. Im not dumb enough to think that all the UAW workers are Hard jobs but restassured they do have responsibilities and guidlines they have to follow per Federal Guidlines on producing Vehicles. Sometimes you get paid for what you know and sometimes you pick the wrong Knowledge to Learn, Its Life and it will go on.

My lick of proof is based on observations of local union manufacturing employees across various industries, and their job tasks.

One example? The local paper products mill pays it's entry-level broom jockeys (literally, the starting position for folks in the mill is driving a broom around the production floor, 12 hours a day) $24/hr. UPIU. Forget the local number.

LOL.. Again that statement is totally untrue and you are grouping a entire country of Union workers based on a claim that a UAW worker makes $32 a hour. I wonder if our Union Carry all van drivers are overpaid that make $10 bucks a hour? After reading your post again ive come to the conclusion that you feel since you have a College education anyone who is union and makes more than you is "Overpaid" regardless of there responsibility.

It's my opinion, based on personal observation, that most union employment is overpaid, due to the corruption and extortion by those unions. Don't agree? That's fine.

 

[toolnut]

A friend of mine works over here at Delphi over here in Lockport. He is a tow motor operator and is responsible for making sure the assembly lines are supplied with parts to keep it moving. He was making $28.00 an hour now he makes $18.00 per hour as a union worker. Did the price of radiators or A/C condensers go down due to the significant drop in pay - no. I am a union worker who climbs radio towers for $18.00 per hour - anyone want to join me for a 400 foot climb for starters - come on over. If a guy or gal is making $32 an hour on an assembly line all the power to them. Has anyone who is complaining worked on an assembly line - its boring as hell. And for all the others who are complaining about what they make - do something about it!

I always liked Snap-on, S-K, and Craftsman tools. You buy off a truck you pay a truck price. You go to the industrial supply house to buy S-K or Williams you pay what they are charging because that's what you do. You go to Sears to buy Craftsman you expect Craftsman tools to be made in the USA because that's what we were always told. If they are changing their COO than that's their business but will their prices go down - no. If I need those kind of tools than I will buy the cheapest I can get and will not be looking for quality. Just because we have unions doesn't make it the reason why things cost more here.

 

[Hiball]

I'm not. I'm quite happy with my choices and my career path. I'd simply like to make more money.

It doesn't make me disgruntled or unhappy to hold the opinion that union button pushers and broom drivers make far too much money, or the opinion that union labor, in general, is overpaid for what they do, and contribute greatly to the pricing situations we're discussing.

If you're union, you likely disagree.



My lick of proof is based on observations of local union manufacturing employees across various industries, and their job tasks.

One example? The local paper products mill pays it's entry-level broom jockeys (literally, the starting position for folks in the mill is driving a broom around the production floor, 12 hours a day) $24/hr. UPIU. Forget the local number.




It's my opinion, based on personal observation, that most union employment is overpaid, due to the corruption and extortion by those unions. Don't agree? That's fine.

Its fine that we disagree, I can live with that but in my honest "opinion" i feel only the blatant "Sitsuations" are being brought up, This is the same tactic that News medias like to use to seem knowledgable when if fact they are uniformed. To be honest Union manufacturing jobs outside the auto industry are very rare in todays economy, Most of those jobs have went by the wayside many years ago.

A friend of mine works over here at Delphi over here in Lockport. He is a tow motor operator and is responsible for making sure the assembly lines are supplied with parts to keep it moving. He was making $28.00 an hour now he makes $18.00 per hour as a union worker. Did the price of radiators or A/C condensers go down due to the significant drop in pay - no.

No Way!!! Unions never make concessions, Its a proven fact here at GJ. Its obvious the Unions goal is to bankrupt every company in the United States.

 

[Stuey]

Can someone atleast post up some photographic evidence of the Chinese made Craftsman Pro wrenches? The combo ones being discussed here, not the elbows.

I went to my local Sears and didn't see the new sets. I did see made in China flare wrenches.

I don't doubt the authenticity of Fedwrench's comments; I'm looking for a photo for a ToolGuyd rant/editorial.

 

[bchee]

I have not seen them in my local stores yet either.
Which is weird because I'm not far from fedwrench.

I'm curious if all these new wrenches are in the ACE hardware stores (black spline, elbow ratcheting, etc)

Sears let us know about this well in advance. First it was "evolv", then "Craftsman evolv" now the evolutionary process is complete

 

[rayzor32]

No, what's really sad is the engineers who went to school for half their life and racked up a lot of student loans and who actually design the cars, set up the manufacturing lines, etc. don't get paid a whole lot more than the union employees who are lucky if they have a high school diploma.

I'm 100% anti-union. Unions had their time and their place and should have been killed off a long time ago. If you don't like how your employer treats you, do like every other human being and find a new job. Instead these people use it as an excuse to extort money from big companies when their job doesn't really deserve it.

No offense, but your cousin doesn't deserve to get paid $32 an hour to put some screws in an engine all day long.

Wow all the ignoramuses come out of the woodwork!! My cousin works in SKILLED TRADES tool and die. Who buy the way has a 4 year college degree. An assembly line worker makes ~$28/hr. And that is a horrible job, great pay and benefits but if you aren't in a skilled trade it's not as easy as "turning a screw". 28/hr would not be enough for me to stand there all day moving as fast as I can tightening the SAME bolts ALL DAY EVERYDAY, the repetition would drive me insane, but if you didn't get the same opportunities as some yuppie did you could do it and make enough money to raise a family in a decent neighborhood. Unions raised everyone elses wages, you can thank them for things like a weekend, overtime and benefits, the middle class. Electricians, plumbers and other skilled trades make over 30/hr why doesn't another skilled tradesman in tool and die or welder repair deserve the same?

$32 an hour is fricking insane. They do not do hard, physical labor all day. They do not teach your children. They are the embodiment of why education in this nation suffered for twenty years. Kids see these barely educated people sitting on assembly lines making over $25 an hour screwing a dashboard on and think, why the hell should I go to college? I can make $90-150k per year sitting on my *** working in a car plant.

To push a damned broom you are making over $20 an hour. That is work that tests your mind and makes sure you know something. Nope, that is brainless, mind-numbing work that you are making $200 A DAY to do. This is why we have fewer and fewer domestic goods and more and more imported goods. If the "import" companies can employ someone for $15 an hour, why is $32 necessary? Simple, that's the way it's always been done.

Teachers, seriously? Talk about union abuse, once they get their tenure they sit in their *** and do squat.. I graduated highschool in '05, my public school teachers were HORRIBLE, I had less than a handful of good teachers, most taught me nothing. College was a different story their was actually good teachers they taught you something, teachers in this day and age never heard of a chalkboard and chalk and want to sit around all day and watch movies. A teacher also gets a 3-month vacation. We're in a fight in ny to get federal funding for education but the teachers won't give up the plastic surgery clause in their health insurance.. plastic surgery give me a break..

If the kids think they don't have to go to college because they can work in the autoplants are dreaming those jobs are gone and they aren't coming back.

I also love how everyone is "up in arms" over the alleged $32 dollars a hour and frankly there isn't a one of you who wouldn't love to have that job. Secondly that was a negotiated wage that was given to them from there employer. There are numerous jobs across America that make $30 plus a hour, power plants, chemical plants etc... And don't give me the "they have work harder" because I know people who work at both and it's not the case at all. I'm sorry some of you are bent that a high school education is responsible for a great paying job. Btw $32 dollars a hour is no where near 90k-150k a year. You guys make me Lol, you affiliate 1 high paying union job and immediately start grouping everyone together as the evil unions who are killing manufacturing in America. Knowledge is power, some should really do some research into subjects before getting so emo here.

OMG somebody with a brain!!!

All these other people talking about how unions are sucking the country dry, its not the unions its HEALTH INSURANCE. Most union workers get health insurance, something most non-union workers don't get, and do you know how much health insurance costs? I have another cousin making $35/hr as a NURSE, non-union! Take a look at how much a doctor visit or MRI costs or prescription drugs cost these days. That's what's costing these companies big! It's not wages.

As someone who lives in the south (more than likely in one of your "hick" towns) I can honestly tell you where you can stick your attitude. Those companies are moving to places where people appreciate a job, work hard for their money and don't complain about every little thing that goes wrong. Our TEACHERS don't make $65,000 a year and they are required to have a college education. When you complain about what is basically an unskilled labor job making $65,000 a year, you have a warped outlook on life.

There are a LOT of people out there right now who would be damn proud to HAVE a job much less one that paid $32.00 an hour that they could be trained for in less than 3 months. I am very much anti-union after working in one union plant where I was forced to do my job and a lazy old farts at the same time. When I complained about it, they said he had "seniority" and would always make more than I would and that he would have to "screw a donkey on the line in front of everyone" to get fired. I quit the next day and hunted a career where I could advance based upon my ability and drive.

That is the main difference I see between the "old line" towns up north and the new centers in the south. Detroit worker thinking is that the company "owes" me something and down here, we "earn" something.

wow, lol

 

[rayzor32]

Don't forget about when they used to sell "Companion" tools

Which I don't understand why they dropped. You wanted a made in usa tool you bought craftsman, you wanted a cheap tool to get you by companion was on the next rack over. Hell I have some old companion tools that say made in the usa even. Now its imported "evolv" and craftsman slowly watering down into chinese made junk.

 

[Hiball]

I'm curious if all these new wrenches are in the ACE hardware stores (black spline, elbow ratcheting, etc)
e

I'll check my local ace tomorrow as I need to grab some paint anyway. I know they have some craftsman stuff as I was in there a week ago. They still had a slug of ace tools also, I'm not sure if they are gonna carry both or not.

 

[Stuey]

Which I don't understand why they dropped. You wanted a made in usa tool you bought craftsman, you wanted a cheap tool to get you by companion was on the next rack over. Hell I have some old companion tools that say made in the usa even. Now its imported "evolv" and craftsman slowly watering down into chinese made junk.

In my opinion, it was a branding issue. Companion sales were probably faltering, so "evolv" was launched with an all new line of like-themed products. Evolv sales were probably lackluster and disappointing. So... someone decided to link it with the Craftsman name. That also rounds out the Craftsman brand with tiers for every budget/target audience. Craftsman Evolv, Craftsman, Craftsman Professional.

 

[Indy_500]

you guys make me laugh. All the union jobs that made "made in the usa" items got sent overseas and now you guys are complaining about chinese made tools, and saying that union jobs are such a bad thing

 

[fourfeathers]

Did not see China Pros there today, but sadly I saw China Allen branded t handled hex wrenches and ball end L shaped.

 

[Hiball]

you guys make me laugh. All the union jobs that made "made in the usa" items got sent overseas and now you guys are complaining about chinese made tools, and saying that union jobs are such a bad thing

Did you find where your mom hid the gummy bears and mountain dew again? Lol

on a serious note regarding whether unions are good or not we will just have to agree to disagree. People are entitled to there opinion and beliefs, I would like to think unions are perfect but I'll be the first one to admit I think they have gotten to big, almost corporation like. If the anti union crowd wants to sit back and lay 100% of the blame on unions for manufacturing Jobs being sent south or overseas, wellso be it. I try to look at the whole picture from the top of the food chain to the bottom and when I see anual bonuses being handed out when there was a deficit it makes me wonder about the motives of a company. It's crystal clear that union shop companies can make great profits so I know it can be done. If sears is moving there high end tools overseas it doesn't leave much hope for the middle line. I hope I'm wrong...

 

[tyreguy25]

I am not anti-union, but their time for productivity has passed. We can all agree to disagree about this.

They are the reason we get overtime pay? For real? I hadn't heard this.

On a side note, who mentioned gummy bears? I want some.