To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

What size breaker for air compressor?

wantacoe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
653
Location
Sycamore, il
I have an old air compressor with a GE 230v single phase 5 hp motor. 32 amps so I am figuring a 40 amp breaker and #8 copper wire? I also will be running a couple lines for my welder. I think 50 amp breaker and #8 wire. Does the length of wire change things? One run would be about 20', the other will be about 50'.
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

sparky 1971

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
Messages
7,976
Location
Central Iowa
#10 THHN/THWN or #8 romex and up to a 60 amp breaker according to the Square D cheat sheet. The last time I did the math for a motor was sometime prior to 2000.

The welder will be fine with 8's on a 50. You could probably get by with 10's, maybe 12's. Length could change things, but it's got to be a long ways before it will become a factor. Don't worry about voltage drop at those piddly distances.
 

Attachments

  • Motor cheat card_20230814_0001.pdf
    640.2 KB · Views: 24

wyliesdiesels

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
20,032
Location
Modesto, CA
5HP requires 35a rated wire. so either #10 in pipe or #8/2 NM-b. breaker can be max 70a. oh and it needs to be hardwired unless you use pin and sleeve plugs.... you will need a local disconnect if not within sight of breaker panel and further than 50a...

welder circuit can use reduced size wire based on duty cycle. but if you want full size wire, then you can use #8 in pipe or #6/2 NM-b...
 

desmopower

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
14
#10 THHN/THWN or #8 romex and up to a 60 amp breaker according to the Square D cheat sheet. The last time I did the math for a motor was sometime prior to 2000.

The welder will be fine with 8's on a 50. You could probably get by with 10's, maybe 12's. Length could change things, but it's got to be a long ways before it will become a factor. Don't worry about voltage drop at those piddly distances.
Not saying I agree with it, but NM-B is derated to 60C so #8 should not be used for 60A.
Technically #8 is ok for 40A, #6 55A and #4 70A. If you used 75C which the datasheet specs for temp, then #6 could handle 65A.
Would it be a problem? Hard to say but seems unlikely.

 

Norcal

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
13,765

sparky 1971

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
Messages
7,976
Location
Central Iowa
Not saying I agree with it, but NM-B is derated to 60C so #8 should not be used for 60A.
Technically #8 is ok for 40A, #6 55A and #4 70A. If you used 75C which the datasheet specs for temp, then #6 could handle 65A.
Would it be a problem? Hard to say but seems unlikely.

Are you telling me I was wrong when I put an 80 amp breaker on #8 THWN when wiring up a 7-1/2 HP single phase compressor? Or the 10HP single phase with #6 and a 90? Or the countless ACs with 10's on a 50?
I know what a lot of the ampacities are, if I don't know, then I know where 310.16 is. The rules are different when motors and air conditioners are involved.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

exranger06

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
1,686
Location
CT
Not saying I agree with it, but NM-B is derated to 60C so #8 should not be used for 60A.
Technically #8 is ok for 40A, #6 55A and #4 70A. If you used 75C which the datasheet specs for temp, then #6 could handle 65A.
Would it be a problem? Hard to say but seems unlikely.

Nobody is saying that #8 NM-b can handle 60A. Code says that the wire only has to have 35A ampacity, which #8 NM-b DOES have. You can still put it on a 60A breaker in this case, in fact, code says you could even use a 70A breaker. This is fine because:

1. The motor is never going to pull more than roughly 30A, so the wire can handle it no problem.
2. This is a dedicated circuit for this motor only. No other loads will be plugged into this circuit, potentially overloading it and causing more than 30A to go through the wire (unlike a regular receptacle branch circuit, where anyone can plug any combination of devices into receptacles, pulling who knows how much current)
3. If something went wrong with the motor where it's pulling more current than normal (For example, a bearing going bad that makes the motor more difficult to spin), the motor has a built-in thermal overload that will trip before anything bad happens.
4. If something happened to the wiring between the breaker panel and the motor and created a short circuit, even a 70A breaker would trip immediately (a dead short will create several hundred amps of current, much more than 70A).

The whole "#14 wire = 15A breaker, #12 wire = 20A breaker, #10 wire = 30A breaker" thing goes out the window when dealing with hardwired motor circuits. The reason you may want to use a larger breaker is to avoid nuisance tripping from the large in-rush of current when the motor starts. You don't HAVE to use a 70A breaker; that's just the maximum. If you don't get any nuisance tripping on a 40A or 50A breaker, then use that. I have a 40A breaker on my 5 HP compressor.
 

alfredeneuman

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
4,584
Location
Fullerton, CA
The reason why you can size the breaker larger than the wire is:
The starting current is many times the running current but only last for a fraction of a second. This current would trip the breaker if sized to the wire. To use the larger breaker the motor. has to have supplemental overload protection between the motor and the breaker in the form of either internal overloads embedded in the motor windings, or external overloads in a motor starter, both sized to the motor.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom