Best German 3/8” ratchets?
- Thread starter Rickkyyr8
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The collector
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I have the stahlwille 3/8 and 1/2 flex and they are the best ratchets I've ever had strongly recomend
The collector
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- Joined
- Feb 26, 2022
- Messages
- 218
I've had good luck with Mr worker but I've heard bad things also I bought my stahwillie flex in all 3 sizes all came in about 2 weeks and in good shape
CGarage
Well-known member
I do not see any real innovation in any of the German ratchets.
I much prefer my Facom ratchets or modern Taiwan made ratchets for Euro / Japanese brands (in 1/4” drive).
That said, they are really durable and stout and I am happy I have them. But they are more for durability rather than finesse and tight access (Facom shines in this area in my book).
I much prefer my Facom ratchets or modern Taiwan made ratchets for Euro / Japanese brands (in 1/4” drive).
That said, they are really durable and stout and I am happy I have them. But they are more for durability rather than finesse and tight access (Facom shines in this area in my book).
This is pretty neat, Old past Hazet catalogs in PDF
HAZET-WERK - Hermann Zerver GmbH & Co. KG
www.hazet.de
Haven't been on their web page in a Long time.
But Sheesh, they still only putting one/two features per ratchet.
I want an 8816GHPS
3/8 long handle, non locking flex, fine tooth, quick release.
This post to the old Catalogs is worth being included in the sticky.
Thank-you for posting it.
Ton ton
Well-known member
I don't own any Heyco. But if I wanted German, this is what I would try.
CGarage
Well-known member
A lot of it is not German made though.
Ton ton
Well-known member
Thank you for the information, Cgarage.
Which Facom ratchets are you referring to? The older round head, or the sealed pear heads (ex. JL.161)?
CGarage
Well-known member
Both.
The round head is self-rebuildable which I like.
The sealed head is THIN.
Happy to own both.
I need to try one. Been on the fence for awhile. Reviews seem positive but mostly comparing with older ratchets.
CGarage
Well-known member
You have nothing to lose, I promise you.
There is no German ratchet that I prefer to the Facom.
And I own Stahlwille, Gedore, Hazet, etc…
Facom is a smaller form factor with a better ratchet mechanism or equivalent to the best of Germany.
And user-rebuildable with low cost parts kit is really a nice thing.
The sealed ratchets are so thin, also!
CGarage
Well-known member
The only reason I own German ratchets is because it is fun to have the tools from Germany when working on a German car or firearm for that matter.
They are built like tanks for the most part (German ratchets).
Alas, they lack the refinement and human engineering that the Facom ratchets have.
Say what you want about the French…..They build things with the user in mind, it isn’t the German approach which is totally about technical specification and function over form.
They are built like tanks for the most part (German ratchets).
Alas, they lack the refinement and human engineering that the Facom ratchets have.
Say what you want about the French…..They build things with the user in mind, it isn’t the German approach which is totally about technical specification and function over form.
kyrbz
Well-known member
I know they're made in the Czech Republic but one thing I like about Wera all metal ratchets is they have really small compact heads and despite being a little on the ugly side, they feel really good in your hand. While I like the Wera all metal 1/4 & 3/8 ratchet, I'm not a big fan of their swivel head ratchets. Too big and clunky for me. There's also a Hazet ratcheting t-handle in this pic which I really like.
I know they're made in the Czech Republic but one thing I like about Wera all metal ratchets is they have really small compact heads and despite being a little on the ugly side, they feel really good in your hand. While I like the Wera all metal 1/4 & 3/8 ratchet, I'm not a big fan of their swivel head ratchets. Too big and clunky for me. There's also a Hazet ratcheting t-handle in this pic which I really like.
I really like the design of the wera ratchets, but the 1/2" is HEAVY. It feels like I could put a 10' cheater pipe on it and jump on it daily. It's a little too heavy for daily use, so I always reach for a different ratchet first.
Regarding stahlwille, a buddy in aerospace in Europe had their ratchets in the company supplied boxes. The stahlwille 1/4" ratchets were falling apart after a few weeks of use, eventually they got fed up with doing warranty claims and replaced them with snap on, which are still going fine a few years later
Fair to point out 3/8" is not common in Germany. Traditionally the German mechanics used 1/4" and 1/2" - and those cover everything the 3/8" does and a bit more (so no sense in having all three).
So I'd assume the most development the Germans put in ratchets was in the 1/2" size.
But yes, they are all a bit crude compared to the US or Japanese offerings.
I believe many of the Facom ratchets are made by the Italians in the USAG factory. I think the big reason for why Facom and USAG ratchets are a bit more refined is that they probably share development to some degree with Mac and Proto, since they're all ultimately under the same Stanley roof.
Best European ratchet must be the Bahco 7750. Its country of origin is a bit controversial and hard to know. Most likely, it is at least forged and finished in spain. The mechanism is a mistery. It is the same as the on in the Snap On dual 80. Now, is it made in the USA? Is the Snap On actually made in the USA? That is hard to know, but it is likely to be made in the same place. The Dual 80 ratchets do not say "made in USA", only "USA". I'm no expert on those COO laws but I know there are some loopholes if enough parts are made in the USA.
So I'd assume the most development the Germans put in ratchets was in the 1/2" size.
But yes, they are all a bit crude compared to the US or Japanese offerings.
I believe many of the Facom ratchets are made by the Italians in the USAG factory. I think the big reason for why Facom and USAG ratchets are a bit more refined is that they probably share development to some degree with Mac and Proto, since they're all ultimately under the same Stanley roof.
Best European ratchet must be the Bahco 7750. Its country of origin is a bit controversial and hard to know. Most likely, it is at least forged and finished in spain. The mechanism is a mistery. It is the same as the on in the Snap On dual 80. Now, is it made in the USA? Is the Snap On actually made in the USA? That is hard to know, but it is likely to be made in the same place. The Dual 80 ratchets do not say "made in USA", only "USA". I'm no expert on those COO laws but I know there are some loopholes if enough parts are made in the USA.
Dave455
Well-known member
I think the Facom ratchet that most folks are referring to is this pattern.Fair to point out 3/8" is not common in Germany. Traditionally the German mechanics used 1/4" and 1/2" - and those cover everything the 3/8" does and a bit more (so no sense in having all three).
So I'd assume the most development the Germans put in ratchets was in the 1/2" size.
But yes, they are all a bit crude compared to the US or Japanese offerings.
I believe many of the Facom ratchets are made by the Italians in the USAG factory. I think the big reason for why Facom and USAG ratchets are a bit more refined is that they probably share development to some degree with Mac and Proto, since they're all ultimately under the same Stanley roof.
Best European ratchet must be the Bahco 7750. Its country of origin is a bit controversial and hard to know. Most likely, it is at least forged and finished in spain. The mechanism is a mistery. It is the same as the on in the Snap On dual 80. Now, is it made in the USA? Is the Snap On actually made in the USA? That is hard to know, but it is likely to be made in the same place. The Dual 80 ratchets do not say "made in USA", only "USA". I'm no expert on those COO laws but I know there are some loopholes if enough parts are made in the USA.
Facom originally called these “Palm Control” ratchets, because of the free spinning disc that you can apply downforce to.
It was an innovative design. I think these were one of the earlier “fine tooth” ratchets to be introduced. The design is unique and the action is superbly smooth, even now. For the time, outstandingly so.
I can only concur with those who favour them. The fact that rebuild kits are available is another plus!
These ratchets are built in Italy by USAG. I never saw the very earliest, and it’s feasible they were French built, but every example I have seen was made in Italy.
The design was not a joint development with Mac / Proto. These ratchets were introduced by Facom long before SBD bought them out. I would have to dig out my old Facom catalogues to say when, but they are certainly in my earliest, which I think was early 1990’s (92/94).
The jewels in the crown were the steel handle versions. They were a later addition and were never cheap. I have a few. It’s these that are being sold as a “new” Proto design, but they are really neither.
Sadly, very few Facom ratchets are now made in France. Some are Italian made, some (most now) are Taiwanese.
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The proto knurled handled versions I recently bought were both made in Italy. The 3/8" is a gem. The 1/4" doesn't do as much for me but it's nice. SBD has sold different variations of it.
I see the Bahco 80 tooth can be had from European sellers on Ebay for around seventy five to eighty dollars.
I see the Bahco 80 tooth can be had from European sellers on Ebay for around seventy five to eighty dollars.
CGarage
Well-known member
VolvoRyan
Well-known member
I just got a pair of Wera ratchets: 3/8" and 1/2"... the 1/2" indeed feels *heavy*. The LP90 in 1/2" also feels heavy... consequently, I was grabbing an old round head when I needed a standard handle 1/2" and space wasn't a problem. I do like that the Wera handles are a bit longer than the usual fare. 1/2" and 3/8" respectively:
-Ryan
The French certainly make some nice tools, the Facom vise grips are the most interesting on the market by far.
Also very intrigued by the cle-a-pipe, I have some small ones but I think where they'd be really cool would be extra large sizes like a 32mm and 30mm.
I wonder in SAM tools from France make their own ratchets in France. Design is similar to the Facom ones but somewhat different.
Also very intrigued by the cle-a-pipe, I have some small ones but I think where they'd be really cool would be extra large sizes like a 32mm and 30mm.
I wonder in SAM tools from France make their own ratchets in France. Design is similar to the Facom ones but somewhat different.
CGarage
Well-known member
I think the Facom ratchet that most folks are referring to her is this pattern.
Facom originally called these “Palm Control” ratchets, because of the free spinning disc that you can apply downforce to.
These ratchets are built in Italy by USAG. I never saw the very earliest, and it’s feasible they were French built, but every example I have seen was made in Italy.
All of my “Palm Control” ratchets were bought in the 90s and all were French made. I believe they are stamped “France” as well.
Being made in Italy does not turn me off. In fact, Italy is a larger industrial producer than France.
The latest Facom sets I have bought, I have requested Rotator Ratchets in them since I already have the ‘palm control’ ratchets in the various sizes.
The Rotator Ratchets are nifty and useful.
Can you post a picture? I think I own one of these in 1/2” drive. But I didn’t notice the handle being steel (last I used it was over a year ago, so forgive my memory).
Agree, as always, with your well thought out posts.
Dave455
Well-known member
Ahh, that sounds likely. I can recall that Facom previously produced a fine tooth ratchet without the “palm control” feature, and those were also stamped “France”. The repair kits are common, which suggests that the internals are the same.All of my “Palm Control” ratchets were bought in the 90s and all were French made. I believe they are stamped “France” as well.
Being made in Italy does not turn me off. In fact, Italy is a larger industrial producer than France.
The latest Facom sets I have bought, I have requested Rotator Ratchets in them since I already have the ‘palm control’ ratchets in the various sizes.
The Rotator Ratchets are nifty and useful.
Can you post a picture? I think I own one of these in 1/2” drive. But I didn’t notice the handle being steel (last I used it was over a year ago, so forgive my memory).
Agree, as always, with your well thought out posts.
No, being made in Italy doesn’t bother me particularly either, though I would prefer France on something I think of as a French tool!
The “Rotator” ratchets definitely have a role. I only have the bit driver, but can see me adding a ratchet. I think they have recently re designed the quick release and ditched the big red button. I quite liked that.
Anyway, here are some Palm Control ratchets - all 3/8 drive.
On top is the original style J.161. This rides around in a set in my road box, so sees a fair deal of use but has worn well. I opted for the Facom because I knew I would be using these tools a lot, and simply liked them to use.
At the time, these were the only style of palm control ratchets made, so Facom made a different ratchet for their aerospace range - J.155 - shown second from top. Although this has a steel handle, the mechanism is not as nice as the J.161.
The steel handle palm control ratchets were introduced later and are superb tools. I only ever bought the long one (J.157A third from top) and the short one (J.161E - bottom). These are lovely tools. The round shaft of the J.157 is nice to use as it’s so slim, the heads are incredibly compact, and the ratcheting mechanism is just so nice to use.
Maybe we should start a Facom thread!
Ahh, that sounds likely. I can recall that Facom previously produced a fine tooth ratchet without the “palm control” feature, and those were also stamped “France”. The repair kits are common, which suggests that the internals are the same.
No, being made in Italy doesn’t bother me particularly either, though I would prefer France on something I think of as a French tool!
The “Rotator” ratchets definitely have a role. I only have the bit driver, but can see me adding a ratchet. I think they have recently re designed the quick release and ditched the big red button. I quite liked that.
Anyway, here are some Palm Control ratchets - all 3/8 drive.
On top is the original style J.161. This rides around in a set in my road box, so sees a fair deal of use but has worn well. I opted for the Facom because I knew I would be using these tools a lot, and simply liked them to use.
At the time, these were the only style of palm control ratchets made, so Facom made a different ratchet for their aerospace range - J.155 - shown second from top. Although this has a steel handle, the mechanism is not as nice as the J.161.
The steel handle palm control ratchets were introduced later and are superb tools. I only ever bought the long one (J.157A third from top) and the short one (J.161E - bottom). These are lovely tools. The round shaft of the J.157 is nice to use as it’s so slim, the heads are incredibly compact, and the ratcheting mechanism is just so nice to use.
Maybe we should start a Facom thread!
I just got a pair of Wera ratchets: 3/8" and 1/2"... the 1/2" indeed feels *heavy*. The LP90 in 1/2" also feels heavy... consequently, I was grabbing an old round head when I needed a standard handle 1/2" and space wasn't a problem. I do like that the Wera handles are a bit longer than the usual fare. 1/2" and 3/8" respectively:
-Ryan
I use the 3/8” Wera as of now, well at least when I’m working on VW or BMW cars. It hooks up very well with Hazet sockets but I find it’s hit or miss for QR engagement on other sockets. I grab the Proto 3/8” when I’m using fractional sockets around the house. I find the Wera 3/8” similar to your experience with the 1/2” Wera, feels a little heavy in the handle. I haven’t tried the Wera in 1/2”. This is why I’m looking for alternatives. I have a Stahlwille 3/8” fine tooth regular length inbound along with a Facom sealed non- QR (thanks CGarage) on the way. I like the 3/8” Wera but I feel there’s something better out there for me.
That said, the Wera 1/4” is my go to, grab and use ratchet pretty much exclusively! It feels perfectly balanced, the handle weight makes the back drag feel slippery smooth and light. Fits great with the Hazet sockets/ extensions and also a Stahlwille locking 1/4” extension I picked up.
I have come to prefer the QR on 1/4” drives. 2 more locking 1/4” Stahlwille extensions in bound from MW. 3/8” and 1/2” ratchets seem to have plenty of tension but for 1/4” it’s QR all the way for me. I love how tight the Wera 1/4” ratchet plus locking extension plus Hazet sockets feel. Can’t say enough about how it all hooks up solid. I don’t experience that with Proto, USA Craftsman, Tekton, etc.
Since this was a German 3/8” Ratchet thread, I’ll be sure to stop back with a comparison of the Wera (not exactly German) and Stahwille when it gets here.
I have the long fine tooth Hazet 1/2” ratchet. It’s a machine. Perfect for a long / strong bolt and nut coaxer. I do not, however, wish to try it in 3/8”. Way too much back drag. I tried the fine 1/4” from Hazet. That was returned. It’s a machine but not for me with that back drag at all. I’m hoping the fine tooth Stahwille fits my requirements, if not, there’s that Facom on the way to me.
3/8” and 1/4” for comparison:
Attachments
VolvoRyan
Well-known member
Funny thing: My Wera 3/8" and 1/2" sockets/extensions are kinda wiggly on the Wera ratchets.... Snap-On and SK sockets/extensions fit much better/tighter. Not really sure why that is. I was kind of surprised that the two Wera ratchets I have aren't a bit better balanced, if only because their screwdrivers are amazing. The Wera ratchets are my only quick release. Not enough time on them yet to have an opinion. I do want to add a 1/4" Wera to the mix.
As much as I'd love to get my hands on some, I haven't been sold on the size/geometry of the properly German ratchets (Hazet, Gedore, etc.).... I wonder if it's just the nature of trying to mix and match "European tool standards" with "American tool standards".... and finding that they just don't "line up". If that makes any sense.
-Ryan
In 1/4" and 3/8" drive, the regular Hazet ratchets (863P & 8816P) are fine if one is ok with not having fine tooth mechanism. After a bit of use, the back drag is almost non-existent. Good ratchets.
The Hazet 90 tooth ratchets (HP & HPS) are quality tools, but they suffer from high backdrag. Mine never got better with use. I still use the 3/8 version occasionally. Hazet made them so tough that they won't break in good!
I use the 863P quite a bit, and its one of my favorites in 1/4" drive for most small work.
Two of my most used 3/8" ratchets are the Stahlwille 435 (standard 30 tooth) and 435QRN (quick release, fine tooth). I have found them to have good feel and sockets fit well. My 3/8 sockets are mostly Stahlwille and Williams USA. If I need a long 3/8" drive ratchet, I reach for Snap-on FL80 (which rounds out my top 3 most used 3/8" drive ratchets).
As for Gedore, I find their pliers to be very nice, if not exceptional. Never been terribly impressed with the sockets, wrenches, and ratchets. Part of it may be the higher price we see in the USA for them.
The Hazet 90 tooth ratchets (HP & HPS) are quality tools, but they suffer from high backdrag. Mine never got better with use. I still use the 3/8 version occasionally. Hazet made them so tough that they won't break in good!
I use the 863P quite a bit, and its one of my favorites in 1/4" drive for most small work.
Two of my most used 3/8" ratchets are the Stahlwille 435 (standard 30 tooth) and 435QRN (quick release, fine tooth). I have found them to have good feel and sockets fit well. My 3/8 sockets are mostly Stahlwille and Williams USA. If I need a long 3/8" drive ratchet, I reach for Snap-on FL80 (which rounds out my top 3 most used 3/8" drive ratchets).
As for Gedore, I find their pliers to be very nice, if not exceptional. Never been terribly impressed with the sockets, wrenches, and ratchets. Part of it may be the higher price we see in the USA for them.
Funny thing: My Wera 3/8" and 1/2" sockets/extensions are kinda wiggly on the Wera ratchets.... Snap-On and SK sockets/extensions fit much better/tighter. Not really sure why that is. I was kind of surprised that the two Wera ratchets I have aren't a bit better balanced, if only because their screwdrivers are amazing. The Wera ratchets are my only quick release. Not enough time on them yet to have an opinion. I do want to add a 1/4" Wera to the mix.
As much as I'd love to get my hands on some, I haven't been sold on the size/geometry of the properly German ratchets (Hazet, Gedore, etc.).... I wonder if it's just the nature of trying to mix and match "European tool standards" with "American tool standards".... and finding that they just don't "line up". If that makes any sense.
-Ryan
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Wera ratchets I think are forged and assembled in the Czech republic, but the mechanisms are most likely from Taiwan. Not entirely sure, but I guess it is fair to point out. I think the "proper" Czech Wera products are the screwdrivers and allen keys and bits, and the wrenches (without the ratcheting mechanism again).
Dave455
Well-known member
I think you are essentially correct!Funny thing: My Wera 3/8" and 1/2" sockets/extensions are kinda wiggly on the Wera ratchets.... Snap-On and SK sockets/extensions fit much better/tighter. Not really sure why that is. I was kind of surprised that the two Wera ratchets I have aren't a bit better balanced, if only because their screwdrivers are amazing. The Wera ratchets are my only quick release. Not enough time on them yet to have an opinion. I do want to add a 1/4" Wera to the mix.
As much as I'd love to get my hands on some, I haven't been sold on the size/geometry of the properly German ratchets (Hazet, Gedore, etc.).... I wonder if it's just the nature of trying to mix and match "European tool standards" with "American tool standards".... and finding that they just don't "line up". If that makes any sense.
-Ryan
Part of the reason I have so many ratchets (and other accessories) is that I find it best to use a ratchet / extension by the same maker as the socket. A Snap On socket on a Snap On ratchet or extension locks up fairly solidly. A Hazet socket on a Hazet ratchet or extension likewise.
Even if you do that, there are variations. A close up shows why. This 1/4” Hazet extension (top) has a flat portion immediately adjacent to the square drive that the socket rests against, giving a very solid lock up.
The Wera extension (bottom) has a sloping surface, that would need to be precisely matched to a socket to give a comparable lock up to the Hazet. This is difficult to do anyway, and in practice there is a slight mismatch between components. This may be because Wera source the components from different suppliers, or may just reflect their relative immaturity at producing these tools.
I’m satisfied with Wera overall, for the price, but ultimately there are very few steak dinners available at burger money!
With regard to specifically German tools, I find that the fit / lock up on the Hazet tools is superb. Probably the best available anywhere. Stahlwille are good, but if you look at 1/4” drive (which seems to be the most difficult to get right, and where there are most differences) Hazet are better.
Dave455
Well-known member
This mirrors my experiences almost 100%.
VolvoRyan
Well-known member
This was exactly my thought. The sockets (and extensions?) are coming from Taiwan... but the ratchets are Czech Republic. I wonder if it's a disconnect there.
All too true!
Great point!! I wonder if we've gotten too used to having loads of teeth on a ratchet on this side of the pond. I still just love to grab the 40-tooth SK round head. For the most part, it's the head thickness that shuts that ratchet down much more often than the number of "clicks".
-Ryan