Help Needed - Sloping Driveway to Attached Garage - Flooding

[BillK]

Im just going to go ahead and pile on with what everyone else said . . . . . you need to find out where the present drain goes ....... period. Once you do that you can figure out a solution. The house I grew up in had a similar driveway and we had no issues at all. Not sure where the trench drain went to, I was too young to care back then You said you were in Ma ? My cousins live in Winchester and they have a similar driveway except maybe steeper and I have never heard them say anything about getting water in their garage.

 

[Zeke]

Unless you owe the PO money, you probably should ask nicely.

IDK, first thing I thought of was lack of disclosure. Any evidence of this happening before you bought the house?

 

[P0234]

IDK, first thing I thought of was lack of disclosure. Any evidence of this happening before you bought the house?

MA doesn't have the strongest disclosure laws but they do say the seller cannot conceal issues.

What A Seller Must Disclose in Massachusetts - Ladimer Law Office PC

PRINT Massachusetts is one of the few states that still follows the old common law rule of caveat emptor, also known as “buyer beware.” This means that, as a seller, you are required to disclose very few things about your house and, as a buyer, you need to ask the right questions and make sure […]

ladimerlaw.com

 

[Mantetvh1]

Oh yeah I grew up in Wakefield which is only a couple towns over.

 

[Mantetvh1]

MA doesn't have the strongest disclosure laws but they do say the seller cannot conceal issues.

What A Seller Must Disclose in Massachusetts - Ladimer Law Office PC

PRINT Massachusetts is one of the few states that still follows the old common law rule of caveat emptor, also known as “buyer beware.” This means that, as a seller, you are required to disclose very few things about your house and, as a buyer, you need to ask the right questions and make sure […]

ladimerlaw.com

I have a relative who is an attny. She told me the exact same thing and we will be looking into this after I get the situation in hand.

 

[Mantetvh1]

IDK, first thing I thought of was lack of disclosure. Any evidence of this happening before you bought the house?

A neighbor who is a landscaper said the PO experienced flooding issues and he has tried to help with the drain before.

 

[Mantetvh1]

As others have said you need to run a camera into the drain pipe. Check for termination as well as obstructions. Look into source of the water and do as much as possible to control it before it gets to your garage door. A berm at the road is number one item to address. If the town will not help you , find an asphalt contractor to do the work. A few hundred will do a lot - saw cut back from road, remove old material and build a good solid berm at least 3 inches higher than the road elevation 4 feet away from the curb line. The berm needs to be at least 3 feet in depth from the road towards your garage. Install a trench drain in the drive 2/3 of the way down your drive from the road. Do not tie this drain into the drain in front of your garage, this needs to have a different termination point. By doing the this work you are controlling the runoff before it gets to your house, and not trying to deal with it at your door. Pumps are only the last solution. A pump to control the amount of water you are dealing with is not your typical sump pump. I totally understand your situation as we just had a 3 1/2 inch rainfall in a little over an hour a few weeks ago. Water ran down the road down our drive (with some damage) and began to erode road as well as trying to run thru a fieldstone wall. Control water flow as well as keeping drains clear will make things much better.

I love this. I think I will need pumps just due to the fact the water has no where to go (if the current drain is in fact working as designed.). I called our DPW to get someone to do the berm. Thank you so much!

 

[Mantetvh1]

Update: I called a plumber and they will be out tomorrow to scope the drain with a camera and at least tell me where it goes.

Thank you all so much for your time reading through this. My family and I (thankfully) have never gone through anything like this. Your kindness and thoughtfulness is truly appreciated.

 

[Old Moparz]

Assuming you had to cover the cost of that berm? I don’t foresee the town paying for that. And apparently one of my neighbors did mention that the previous owner had flooding before. I still like the idea of checking into the existing system however, something tells me I need more. And one key thing that everybody here has essentially agreed on is that I need to find a way to Control the flow of the water coming down. One idea was a trench drain about halfway down the driveway that spans the entire width with the runoff going onto the street. Then another trench drain installed at the base of the driveway between the existing drain and the garage door. Although it sounds like a lot of folks here like the idea of a berm at the base of the garage in front of the door between the garage door and the existing drain.

No, I didn't pay for it. The town owned the road which was causing issues at the end of the street for 6 lots, all on the very end that was unpaved. (A dead end street) All the drainage was surface drainage with nowhere to go except my driveway. I've already had several conversations with the highway superintendent who was a jackass, but once he was replaced by someone else things went easier.

Instead of a berm, which may cause the approach angle of whatever it is you drive to change drastically so you scrape & bottom out, a trench drain at the very top will be better. Having it higher will give you better options for the downhill pipe run. Yes, it's more money but if you have the equivalent of a speed bump at the top of your driveway it can damage your vehicles.

 

[Mantetvh1]

No, I didn't pay for it. The town owned the road which was causing issues at the end of the street for 6 lots, all on the very end that was unpaved. (A dead end street) All the drainage was surface drainage with nowhere to go except my driveway. I've already had several conversations with the highway superintendent who was a jackass, but once he was replaced by someone else things went easier.

Instead of a berm, which may cause the approach angle of whatever it is you drive to change drastically so you scrape & bottom out, a trench drain at the very top will be better. Having it higher will give you better options for the downhill pipe run. Yes, it's more money but if you have the equivalent of a speed bump at the top of your driveway it can damage your vehicles.

Definitely was concerned how the berm would work but I guess I’d need to see it. The drain would be something id get along with the berm. But I’d have to figure out how to drain it considering the downhill slope. Do they make small pumps for those?

 

[Old Moparz]

Definitely was concerned how the berm would work but I guess I’d need to see it. The drain would be something id get along with the berm. But I’d have to figure out how to drain it considering the downhill slope. Do they make small pumps for those?

It's a bit crude but you should see my point.

 

[Old Moparz]

Definitely was concerned how the berm would work but I guess I’d need to see it. The drain would be something id get along with the berm. But I’d have to figure out how to drain it considering the downhill slope. Do they make small pumps for those?

If you're standing at the top of the driveway looking at your house, the trench drain will run parallel to the face of your house. One end should be lower than the other & hopefully your road has a pitch so you can run a pipe along the edge of it.

 

[firebirdparts]

You're pretty screwed.

Yes fix the drain if you can, but you need to stop ALL water coming onto the driveway that didn't fall on the driveway as rain. You can see that, and you can do something about it. Above ground. It won't cost all that much. yes to the Berm, it's critical, but don't necessarily stop there if you need more stuff.

If there's any way to run a drain to daylight, no matter how far, that would certainly be nice. If you can't do that, then I think a bigger hole and a sump pump is about all I could come up with.

I guess if french drains indoors work, then it must be possible to get to daylight somewhere on the other side of the house.

 

[Spud McGee]

If there's any way to run a drain to daylight, no matter how far, that would certainly be nice. If you can't do that, then I think a bigger hole and a sump pump is about all I could come up with.

Yep. To daylight is probably the best. My neighbor has a similar situation to OP.

Its a place where water drains towards his house. There's a drain that goes underground and ties into the storm water system.

When there's a buttload of rain (like with the hurricane), the stormwater system gets full of water from whatever's upstream.
That causes (1), his drain no longer has anywhere to drain to and (2), in really bad cases, the stormwater flows back to his house and he ends up with even more water than he would have without the drain there.

 

[Zeke]

If the seller moved out of state there's no recourse. In CA, the Realtor is culpable as well.

 

[JJ Quick]

Funny but I did locate someone much farther up the street with a similar driveway. I noticed they only had a trench drain that ran the width of their driveway - at the base - just in front to the garage door. I felt it would be weird to go knocking on their door but at this point I’m desperate lol.

That was going to be my suggestion.
Best of luck with your situation.
Curious, why does your homeowner insurance not cover the flood damage?

 

[Mantetvh1]

That was going to be my suggestion.
Best of luck with your situation.
Curious, why does your homeowner insurance not cover the flood damage?

Flood insurance is an add-on that drives the price up an astronomical amount. I’ve also heard that it’s not offered if you don’t live in a ‘flood zone’.

 

[Mantetvh1]

If you're standing at the top of the driveway looking at your house, the trench drain will run parallel to the face of your house. One end should be lower than the other & hopefully your road has a pitch so you can run a pipe along the edge of it.

In that pic, the water runs left to right. So the arrow on the right is accurate. Thanks!

 

[Mantetvh1]

It's a bit crude but you should see my point.

Ah this makes sense. Thanks!!

 

[Mantetvh1]

If you're standing at the top of the driveway looking at your house, the trench drain will run parallel to the face of your house. One end should be lower than the other & hopefully your road has a pitch so you can run a pipe along the edge of it.

I see what you are getting at. The street decline is very small which is another reason I was thinking berm. Not sure how a trench drain would handle all that water.

 

[Mantetvh1]

UPDATE 2: I found where my drain goes!

Our plumbing company came out yesterday. In the pictures I have posted we had what looked like a manhole cover that went down into what was essentially a small dry well. About halfway down. There was a 4 inch diameter PVC drain pipe that went somewhere. We just never knew where. The plumber scoped it, and it pitched downwards for a length of about 30 ft. At the end was another dry well. There were no obstacles or damage to the pipe/well, and he said everything looked to be in great shape. The dry well at the end was buried approximately 5 feet. He said this is actually a really nice set up. For a dry well - which he isn’t a huge fan of.

He was really confounded by the fact that the PVC drain pipe had a filter-like cover on it. He said this is essentially rendering my 4 inch diameter drain pipe into a 1 1/2 to 2 inch pipe. He said there is no need for this filter cover to be on and he recommended I let him take it off. So I told him to go ahead and do that and he said that should let a lot more water in, a lot faster. He said that should help the drain send the water much quicker to the dry well.

 

[Crashlandy]

IDK, first thing I thought of was lack of disclosure. Any evidence of this happening before you bought the house?

Yea, probably should put an attorney on retainer.

 

[billconner]

UPDATE 2: I found where my drain goes!

"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky? '

 

[P0234]

UPDATE 2: I found where my drain goes!

Our plumbing company came out yesterday. In the pictures I have posted we had what looked like a manhole cover that went down into what was essentially a small dry well. About halfway down. There was a 4 inch diameter PVC drain pipe that went somewhere. We just never knew where. The plumber scoped it, and it pitched downwards for a length of about 30 ft. At the end was another dry well. There were no obstacles or damage to the pipe/well, and he said everything looked to be in great shape. The dry well at the end was buried approximately 5 feet. He said this is actually a really nice set up. For a dry well - which he isn’t a huge fan of.

He was really confounded by the fact that the PVC drain pipe had a filter-like cover on it. He said this is essentially rendering my 4 inch diameter drain pipe into a 1 1/2 to 2 inch pipe. He said there is no need for this filter cover to be on and he recommended I let him take it off. So I told him to go ahead and do that and he said that should let a lot more water in, a lot faster. He said that should help the drain send the water much quicker to the dry well.

Elevation wise, the ground above the drywell, how high is it? Is it higher than the driveway drain or lower? If lower, you just need to open up the drywell so it can flow out if it gets full.

 

[Mantetvh1]

Elevation wise, the ground above the drywell, how high is it? Is it higher than the driveway drain or lower? If lower, you just need to open up the drywell so it can flow out if it gets full.

It’s higher. Which is why they think they may add a pump.

 

[P0234]

It’s higher. Which is why they think they may add a pump.

Well that stinks. But as mentioned, avoid pumps. Pumps are ok as secondary/fail safes but you shouldn't build anything that requires them. Heavy rainfall and power outages are a steady couple.

 

[Mantetvh1]

Well that stinks. But as mentioned, avoid pumps. Pumps are ok as secondary/fail safes but you shouldn't build anything that requires them. Heavy rainfall and power outages are a steady couple.

I agree but we are running out of options (and budget). It’s either fill in the driveway, grade the whole front of the home, build in a new bulkhead and seal in the garage. Which we were quoted $34k for. Or add some extra drainage, a berm and a pump. Waiting on a quote for that. As far as how often the water has been an issue - in the 39 months we’ve lived here - we’ve had the garage flood 3-4 times and then we had the two major issues in August. It’s not an every rainfall issue but it is definitely an issue I need to address.

 

[Mantetvh1]

Consider a "roto rooter" job on the drain pipe, or some other means to determine if blocked, and as others have said, where it goes. It really seems like figuring out what you've got is first task.

Tough situation with no place to put storm water. My condolences. It may be pumping to storm sewer - IF the storms sewer works and doesn't contribute to the problem - is only good option. Battery or generator back up of course.

Have you tried to speak with municipality to verify storm sewer?

 

[billconner]

Where do you pump to? Is there a storm sewer that doesn't overflow in big storms?

 

[P0234]

I agree but we are running out of options (and budget). It’s either fill in the driveway, grade the whole front of the home, build in a new bulkhead and seal in the garage. Which we were quoted $34k for. Or add some extra drainage, a berm and a pump. Waiting on a quote for that. As far as how often the water has been an issue - in the 39 months we’ve lived here - we’ve had the garage flood 3-4 times and then we had the two major issues in August. It’s not an every rainfall issue but it is definitely an issue I need to address.

Throwing a little bit of money at water problems rarely works. It's tough for pros as they aren't there when a big rain event hits so they kind of guess unless you pay big bucks for an engineer.

If it were me, I'd get rid of those ugly sandbags and build a big temporary berm using like 10 bags of cold patch. Then keep an eye on things and start thinking about where else the water can go. You should probably measure where your foundation is, the exit tube on the drain and the lowest point in your yard. You can do it with a decent laser level and a tape measure.

 

[ripperd]

I was told there would be multiple pumps in my scenario and that if one was failing or about to - it would alert us. He didn’t say how but that’s a question I asked - what happens when we lose power. I really like the idea of one being connected to a 12 volt.

Realize that in a torrential rain the water volume you need to pump could be very large. Potentially more than a 12v system could handle.

 

[PoorUB]

I agree but we are running out of options (and budget). It’s either fill in the driveway, grade the whole front of the home, build in a new bulkhead and seal in the garage. Which we were quoted $34k for. Or add some extra drainage, a berm and a pump. Waiting on a quote for that. As far as how often the water has been an issue - in the 39 months we’ve lived here - we’ve had the garage flood 3-4 times and then we had the two major issues in August. It’s not an every rainfall issue but it is definitely an issue I need to address.

Personally, I don't like the pump idea. If you get rain and the utility power dies, you are screwed.

Is there absolutely no way to drain the driveway to "daylight"? Or perhaps the city storm sewer?

Do you get run off from the street? The street's gutter over flowing?

The yard should be landscaped so the run off goes elsewhere other than the driveway.

As for the drain and dry well, it is fine in a normal rain. Get a torrential rain and the dry well will just overflow faster than it can drain into the ground. You have found that out already. I doubt the filter cloth under the manhole cover is slowing the flow enough, I suspect the dry well is simply filling up.

 

[PoorUB]

The one picture from the street, it looks like you could drain to the left side of the house.

 

[mikedodge]

What does the street have for water drainage? Doesn't look like much of anything in the pics? Assuming you have sump pump for the house where does that go? Our neighborhood has ditches but over the last 20 years some home owners have filled them in and thanks to amalgamations at the municipal level the city has done squat about it and now that's starting to cause problems.

 

[oldmxracer]

"how often the water has been an issue - in the 39 months we’ve lived here - we’ve had the garage flood 3-4 times and then we had the two major issues in August. It’s not an every rainfall issue but it is definitely an issue I need to address."

Fill it in or move would never trust pumps ! My oldest son bought a house that I advised not to water problems after too many water problems raised the house glad the damn the is now gone !

 

[Mantetvh1]

Personally, I don't like the pump idea. If you get rain and the utility power dies, you are screwed.

Is there absolutely no way to drain the driveway to "daylight"? Or perhaps the city storm sewer?

Do you get run off from the street? The street's gutter over flowing?

The yard should be landscaped so the run off goes elsewhere other than the driveway.

As for the drain and dry well, it is fine in a normal rain. Get a torrential rain and the dry well will just overflow faster than it can drain into the ground. You have found that out already. I doubt the filter cloth under the manhole cover is slowing the flow enough, I suspect the dry well is simply filling up.

Hey there - thanks for replying. To answer - not sure how to drain to daylight. If you are looking at the house (in the pics I attached earlier in the thread), the yard slopes down from the left side of the house towards the driveway. Then of course the driveway slopes down. We got rain all day the other day - with it raining hard at times and with two pumps in the storm drain and the filter now off, it never came close to overflowing. After watching the water path i can say we do not get a ton of run off from the street specifically. Its run off from the rain itself running down the driveway and i believe rain coming from my left side yard (slowly). I also noticed an improvement when we cleaned out our gutters.

 

[PoorUB]

Hey there - thanks for replying. To answer - not sure how to drain to daylight. If you are looking at the house (in the pics I attached earlier in the thread), the yard slopes down from the left side of the house towards the driveway. Then of course the driveway slopes down. We got rain all day the other day - with it raining hard at times and with two pumps in the storm drain and the filter now off, it never came close to overflowing. After watching the water path i can say we do not get a ton of run off from the street specifically. Its run off from the rain itself running down the driveway and i believe rain coming from my left side yard (slowly). I also noticed an improvement when we cleaned out our gutters.

I would raise the retaining walls along the driveway and attempt to get the yard to run away from the driveway and house.