Outlawmws
Well-known member
Similar, but I don't think Oxwall was the Mfg, just an importer. I have several pairs, and none of the slip joints are Oxwall
W. Schollhorn Company/ W.A. Bernard
- Thread starter woody 73
- Start date
RTM
Well-known member
One GS find was a nifty looking pair, got them home, realized they were pretty crappy in the daylight, then saw the Oxwall imprint, chucked them.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
RTM Oxwall was hit or miss.. admittedly, mostly miss, but once in a while...
S-K Tool Fanatic!
Well-known member
Found these 2 pair of pliers, what are they used for.
RTM
Well-known member
Right is a wire cutter
Left is left as an exercise for the reader.
Bernard Tools : Catalog Twenty-Nine : William Schollhorn Co. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
60 p., illus., 23.0 cm, trade catalog
archive.org
Left is left as an exercise for the reader.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Added these nippers to the collection this morning at the flea. Model 165-6. The patent date (Dec 21, 1915) refers to 1,164,981. EDIT: I'll have to do a good re-inventory, but I think I am up to eighteen unique tools now.
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S-K Tool Fanatic!
Well-known member
Do you have a pair like the ones I posted above on the left?
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
No. Can you clean them up and post additional photos? I'd be interested in seeing the markings around the pivot on the flip side and on the shoulders of the handle near the pivot, if any.
My first thought was that it was a routine flat nose that had been modified into a half chain ("needle") nose and a half round nose. I was inclined that way because I have a pair of flat nose that were modified into a needle nose. See post #95 on page or click here.
And if you look at an unmodified flat nose, and compare it to yours, you can see how the left jaw basically looks like a flat nose that was mashed together.
But the round nose on the right on yours does not look like it was formed from a flat nose, though.
Schollhorn built dozens of different pliers and punches and their entire empire around three or four basic Bernard designs, catering to several industries (especially shoe and ticketing), so it wouldn't surprise me if that was some specialty purpose not in the available catalogs. It almost seems like they took the left handle from a flat nose, compressed it, and combined it with the right handle from a round nose.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
A couple years ago when I had some fun making this pegboard display...
...I had thirteen (13) total tools, of ten (10) unique types, not counting different sizes of the same type.
The collection - all flea market finds - has since outgrown that display.
I currently have twenty-two (22) total tools, representing eighteen (18) different types.
Top row left to right:
(1) No. 102 Side-cutters, (2) 1902 catalog (no model numbers) gas/burner pliers, (3) 1902 catalog (no model numbers) flat nose cutters, (4) No. 100 flat nose, (5) No. 104 round nose, (6) (???) short Flat nose (drop-forged jaws), (7) No. 177 diagonals (drop-forged jaws), (8) No. 315 wire cutters, and (9) No. 286 revolving belt punch
Bottom row, left to right:
(10) No. 165 end nippers (drop-forged jaws), (11) No. 125 end nippers, (12) No. 113 vise pliers (missing adjusting screw), (13) No. 255 shoe button setter with cutter, (14) No. 120 belt plier, (15) No. 190 Triumph eyelet punch, (16) wartime M2 sapper tool, (17) not shown, and annoyingly missing, my No. 230 Eyelet Setter, posted upthread here, and (18) also not shown, also annoyingly missing, my No. 119-6 sewing machine belt pliers, posted upthread here.
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Beerhippie
Well-known member
New poster; occasional lurker here.
I picked these up somewhere, years ago, and have been using them as nail pullers for a long time.
There's a surprise coming, RE: post #112 above.
They're very sloppy in the action.
That much opening of the handles barely moves the jaws.
I decided that it was a good time to give then a little TLC, so this AM I pulled the old, worn pins and put the parts in my electrolysis vat with some hot lye solution. After a couple of hours, they were pretty clean and rust free, and the stampings were much more legible.
Here's the surprise:
Same MF? How many pairs of these did he have?
I managed to take some of the slop out by swapping worn pins around and flattening bent parts of the grips. I cleaned everything and used some high-pressure grease on all contact points, then wiped them down with some CLP for rust protection.
I'd like to replace all the pins/bolts, but have so far drawn a blank trying to find anything that would work, not to mention be roughly the same appearance as the originals. I had to grind the ends off the originals, as they were all peened, and I used them as peened rivets on re-assembly. If anyone has any ideas for where to find these, I'm all eyes.
From spending an hour I'll never have again perusing this entire thread, I now know these are #125 End Nippers, 7 inch.
PS: Howdy, Outlaw!
I picked these up somewhere, years ago, and have been using them as nail pullers for a long time.
There's a surprise coming, RE: post #112 above.
They're very sloppy in the action.
That much opening of the handles barely moves the jaws.
I decided that it was a good time to give then a little TLC, so this AM I pulled the old, worn pins and put the parts in my electrolysis vat with some hot lye solution. After a couple of hours, they were pretty clean and rust free, and the stampings were much more legible.
Here's the surprise:
Same MF? How many pairs of these did he have?
I managed to take some of the slop out by swapping worn pins around and flattening bent parts of the grips. I cleaned everything and used some high-pressure grease on all contact points, then wiped them down with some CLP for rust protection.
I'd like to replace all the pins/bolts, but have so far drawn a blank trying to find anything that would work, not to mention be roughly the same appearance as the originals. I had to grind the ends off the originals, as they were all peened, and I used them as peened rivets on re-assembly. If anyone has any ideas for where to find these, I'm all eyes.
From spending an hour I'll never have again perusing this entire thread, I now know these are #125 End Nippers, 7 inch.
PS: Howdy, Outlaw!
four.cycle
Well-known member
Greetings to yous in the Blues!
Quite the interesting find there, sir!
Quite the interesting find there, sir!
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
That's hilarious! In case anyone else is wondering, I'll save you the looking, the other pair of #125 End Nippers are mine.
Now I'm wondering if "MF" isn't a who but a what.
Beerhippie
Well-known member
Could it be an inspectors mark?
Font looks the same.
Yours:
Mine:
If it's the same stamps, then yours is older than mine as part of the M stamp (lower serif, left) has worn/broken off.
Font looks the same.
Yours:
Mine:
If it's the same stamps, then yours is older than mine as part of the M stamp (lower serif, left) has worn/broken off.
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Provincial
Well-known member
Male and Female joints?
RTM
Well-known member
hmm, th3se could match with provincial’s thought, are the M & F on the correct legs
Beerhippie
Well-known member
Not as crazy as it sounds!
There is an interface between the two jaws. One side has one tooth that sits in a recess on the other.
You can just see it here:
The jaw stamped M has the single tooth, the one stamped F has the recess it fits into.
There is an interface between the two jaws. One side has one tooth that sits in a recess on the other.
You can just see it here:
The jaw stamped M has the single tooth, the one stamped F has the recess it fits into.
RTM
Well-known member
Yeah, another mystery solved. I need to look again at mine now. Big initials there from this distance.
Verified
M On left, R on right
Verified
M On left, R on right
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four.cycle
Well-known member
there's a way you can monkey around with the images in "Photoshop" and set them right atop each other (like on an old drafting/tracing table) but I'm not smart enough to figure out how to do it. those fonts certainly look identical to me.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
It does seem to make sense. Jock had his thinking cap on.
The large, relatively crude and conspicuously placed stamps permanently marring a tool for sale, just for an assemblers' guide, makes me reluctant to fully embrace that just yet. The way I have seen that done by other OEMs, for some Crescent pliers, for example, is forged-in codes, and placed under the pivot.
It is a very overt mark. Bigger than the branding.
Could it be both, do we think? Meaning, assembly guides, but third party? After they were sold, and put there by a customer?
A larger sample would help.
The large, relatively crude and conspicuously placed stamps permanently marring a tool for sale, just for an assemblers' guide, makes me reluctant to fully embrace that just yet. The way I have seen that done by other OEMs, for some Crescent pliers, for example, is forged-in codes, and placed under the pivot.
It is a very overt mark. Bigger than the branding.
Could it be both, do we think? Meaning, assembly guides, but third party? After they were sold, and put there by a customer?
A larger sample would help.
four.cycle
Well-known member
RE: "The large, relatively crude and conspicuously placed stamps permanently marring a tool for sale, just for an assemblers' guide, makes me reluctant to fully embrace that just yet."
from a marketing standpoint, 100% spot-on observation. why would you do that? bigger than the BRAND?
from a marketing standpoint, 100% spot-on observation. why would you do that? bigger than the BRAND?
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Hey Beerhippie! I was sure this was you, despite the name adjustment!
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
And if it was indeed a sorters' or assemblers' guide, why don't we see it on similarly constructed left/right male/female halves?
Then again, if it's not, if it's a company name (Mueller Falls), applied by a company, the odds of examples being found in the Bay Area, Oregon, and NJ seem pretty slim.
Insert 'Impatiently rolling fingers on desk' emoji here.
is this a Coleman Community encroachment?
My go to methodology for fixing most vintage tools is... cannibalizing another one. Seriously. Whether that's ratchet pawls or pipe wrench stabilizers. I have salvaged parts from examples with owner's marks or a ruined finish or buggered jaws, for example, to repair another that is broken but more presentable. Granted, it only makes sense if your source is cheap and accessible, though. Such as flea markets. And if the tool is fairly common.
Schollhorn, in their wisdom, may have helped you out, there, though. Many of their pliers have interchangeable fasteners. In other words, you may not have to find another pair of #125 end nippers. The smallest version of their famous side-cutter uses the same hardware, just to cite one example. I know there are others.
So, if you're a picker, look for other Bernard pliers with the same fasteners on the cheap.
I know you can end up with Frankenstein's lab or an Island of Incomplete and Misfit Tools that way, but it's sort of par for the course.
When I get back from the flea I'll see if I can put a thread gauge on them. Maybe you can order something.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
RTM
Well-known member
My bad, I did verify, but didn't update my post w edited. Fixed it now.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Thanks. Same font, too, following your link this time. Curiouser and curiouser.
Beerhippie
Well-known member
....
is this a Coleman Community encroachment?
....
YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!
Beerhippie
Well-known member
The threads--mine were pretty well screwed up--appear to be #10-24 tpi.
There are two sizes of screw (pin) shafts. One is 0.223"-four of those. The other is 0.190--two of those. There are four lengths of unthreaded shaft--two of 1/2" in .223, two of 1/2" in .190, two of 0.650" in 0.223.
There are two sizes of screw (pin) shafts. One is 0.223"-four of those. The other is 0.190--two of those. There are four lengths of unthreaded shaft--two of 1/2" in .223, two of 1/2" in .190, two of 0.650" in 0.223.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Snerk. Yeah, you'll fit right in around here.
Thus Spake Zarathustra.
Regular #10-32 nuts spin on and off mine with ease, and the smaller fasteners are #8-32. Everything I said above about salvaging hardware from other Bernard tools would apply to those as well.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Well, I know a few are buying lanterns, and some are even buying Brass Hose Nozzles!
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Oh, that was an affirmative reference. You're the Pied Piper for sure.
Provincial
Well-known member
Some lead and others follow. Some just stay out of the way, and the majority don't even know anything is happening.
Beerhippie
Well-known member
So, just like in my other life as a Coleman collector/restorer, I've been looking for parts tools as suggested.
What do I get?
More tools needing parts!
My first pair of parallel-jaw pliers!
What do I get?
More tools needing parts!
My first pair of parallel-jaw pliers!
RTM
Well-known member
That one needs no parts it's ready to go just needs sharpening.
Beerhippie
Well-known member
It's missing one nut, which is very close to, but not exactly, #10-32tpi. The cutters will never live again, as someone mistook something made to cut leather belts with a cable cutter. If sharpened, they won't be long enough to cut all the way through.
Meanwhile, I'm sharpening a neat old Schrader 102 sample knife.
Meanwhile, I'm sharpening a neat old Schrader 102 sample knife.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
A new blade could be made pretty easily if you have the need for a round leather belt cutter punch
Beerhippie
Well-known member
I've got to break the screws loose first--those very thin Fillisters don't make that easy--and then take a look. I could slot the screw holes so I can just slide the blade down. OTOH, I really have no use for a belt cutter/punch. We don't use many leather belts around the brewery.
A pair of parallel-jaw pliers? Those I can use. I always look in the tool piles and boxes hoping to find a pair of Knipex, but not much luck there.
A pair of parallel-jaw pliers? Those I can use. I always look in the tool piles and boxes hoping to find a pair of Knipex, but not much luck there.
WisJim
Well-known member
Found this pair in a Goodwill store in southwestern Wisconsin Saturday morning as we were traveling to visit some old friends. Looks like something should fit in the slot on one jaw, there's a little tab that would hold the insert in place. They have the dog on one handle, and I'll see if anything else shows up after some Evaporust does it's job. The grey jaw attachments seem to some kind of die cast metal.
