blue dog
Banned
does this mean all pro wrenches and sets will be produced over sea's? Is it just rumor that the socket and ratchets are next? or do we know this for a fact. Very disappointed in Craftsmen for making these decisions.
Chinese Made Craftsman Professional Wrenches
- Thread starter Fedwrench
- Start date
Displaced Hokie
Well-known member
Well, we've got two reports of seeing Chinese Pro wrenches firsthand. If they are producing some there, it would make sense to move them all.
Look if you are going to produce your "top line" product in China, it would make no sense to make your lower margin lines in the U.S.
The fact that it *appears* that the store department managers now know something is up does not sound promising.
If this happens, I'm done with them. I'll just go to HF or the U.S. companies mentioned.
blue dog
Banned
I took a drive over to sears today to check the wrenches and see if i could spot any china manufactured pro series stuff. I looked at all of the wrenches, The only china stuff that i found was the evolve series i did not look at the gear wrench stuff. I asked the sales guy there [ he has been the same guy there for many years, he is help full and has a fair amount of knowledge when comes to the craftsmen tools ] if he knew anything regarding the pro series being farmed out to china. He told me that it seems that over the years he has worked for sears, he has watched more and more tools go out of the country for manufacturing, but he has not heard anything regarding wrenches, sockets or ratchets going overseas for manufacturing. He expressed his displeasure if it was true and went on about my day.
RLRRLRLL
Well-known member
i was in sears today and looked, the professional wrenches they had in stock where still USA. So i bought both sets, for 89.99 or somthing like that..i made them price match the 26 piece set as they didint carry it, then i also bought metric line wrenches that are USA, the SAE were china...so i didint get them, what is weird is..they only had 1 SAE set, and a rail full of USA metrics. O well, i got some good stuff, ***** i wont get to warrenty them for USA stuff, but they should last a good number of years.
Why in the hell wouldn't you step up to a 1/2" in that situation?
Space. Plain and simple, when you have six inches to swing a wrench, an eight inch long half inch drive will not work.
MAD
Well-known member
From what I remember Danaher makes-
Wrenches- Sprindale Arkansas
Sockets, socket extensions- Gastonia NC
Ratchets, ratcheting wrenches- Garland Texas
Nut drivers, socket extensions- West Hartford CT
The pro series polished flare nut (line) wrenches were made by SK before they switched to Chinese Danaher production.
Maybe Sears just stirs up some rumor so that people would go buy their USA wrenches. I wouldn't be surprise if they are made in China. It is the trend to offshore. The major brands are doing it, so it is not a surprise the lesser brands will follow.
rockchucker
Well-known member
11 Pages of Thread and not 1 single picture over this hooplah?
I am going to go to Sears and clean house on all of the stuff I need before the transition.
I am going to go to Sears and clean house on all of the stuff I need before the transition.
RbrtAWhyt
Well-known member
So you can get 100lbs of torque on a 3/8 ratchet in a six inch confined space?
Cummins_Powered
Well-known member
Well, it is agreed that certain things have gone to china. Flare nut wrenches, flare crowfeet. All the chinese stuff has new packaging, and if you look there is usually american made stuff on the racks behind the new stuff.
So at least with some things its happening. and the flare nut wrenches used to be labeled professional, though im not sure now, but they are fully polished.
So you can get 100lbs of torque on a 3/8 ratchet in a six inch confined space?
If you are putting your weight on it, yes. I can lean down with locked elbows putting MY weight on something and I haven't measured it, but I am over 200 pounds, so do that math. Why attempt to pick me apart when there are others, including quantitative tests that back my claims up?
When space is a factor, you can use the shorter ratchet and put MORE effort into the work. It causes these ratchets, specifically, new 44811s to reverse on you. Try it and tell me you didn't bust a knuckle open on a strut mount. I have and have the scars to prove it.
RbrtAWhyt
Well-known member
I'm just saying there are better options than a 3/8 Craftsman ratchet if you can get in there with locked elbows to put 100lbs of force on a 44811. My point was its the wrong tool for the job. Don't blame the tool when it fails doing something it's not designed to.
It all comes down to the mighty dollar...
Craftsman shipped production over seas,
Matco (through Danaher who is also tied with Craftsman) sent over seas,
Mac Tools has some stuff over the water,
and Snap-on has stuff being made over seas...
So who is the real American company here?
Craftsman shipped production over seas,
Matco (through Danaher who is also tied with Craftsman) sent over seas,
Mac Tools has some stuff over the water,
and Snap-on has stuff being made over seas...
So who is the real American company here?
3/8Dr ratchets can normally be used for up to 100 ft/lb, or at least that is what Facom rates theirs at. It is not the wrong tool for the job if it is all you can get in there with. If you want to argue apples to apples, look at the 3/8 ratchet comparo. Tell me that is not accurate on the 44811. They auto reverse when you least expect it and bust your knuckles. They are not the tool they are marketed as.
If a 1/2 DR ratchet will not fit, how do you use a different tool?
Cummins_Powered
Well-known member
This is true, and certain/some things going over seas wouldnt bother me, but it looks like craftsman is on its way to send everything...
Time will tell at this point.
arkangel06
Banned
You guys got what you were asking for all along!
I feel no pity for any of you.
I feel no pity for any of you.
Ark, I feel dumber everytime i read one of your posts. ..LOL
arkangel06
Banned
Whats wrong with my above post?
Your assumption that Consumers choices soley is the reason for Sears moving tools offshore is foolish and biased in my opinion. Instead of just spouting off "Import hatred" Like some, I will attempt to give some reasoning. 1st. Most of the stuff sears sells is Imported, I would venture to guess 70% or more. 2ndly, Craftsman tools have always been a great value and i would venture to say that Sears Tool "sales" rival HF in alot of categories including price. I dont think this move by Sears is due to Lack of sales but more of way to improve the bottom line.
Well, Sears sockets (the old engraved ones not the laser etched ones) cost about $2/ea for the smaller 3/8" ones. That's what a whole set of HF sockets costs.
Well lets compare Sale items to Sale items, I dont know how many 7pc wrench sets/ Socket sets ive seen for sale at Sears over the years for $9.99. I used to buy a few to give as gifts to my Mailman etc... I believe even now consumers who are looking for Tools still choose the craftsman brand over Hf the majority of the time.
arkangel06
Banned
They could have moved production over seas long ago they already have a plant tooled up and ready to go producing as we speak. They have been selling nothing but imports in Canada for years. Why didn't they swich years ago when they swiched to selling imports in Canada to improve their bottom line? Why did they keep providing you all with American made tools?
I think its because less and less people care about the Made In the USA and more about ''how much money is this going to cost me'' and Sears knows they can get away with it now better then ever.
You people lost the goose laying the golden egges and its all your fault.
Hiball just because we differ in opinions how does that make me dumb?
We will just have to agree to disagree, But Craftsman's Price point was already very similar to what HF is now, outside the Pro line of course which is the one that has left the building. And Even now if you if you walk into a Sears Store you will see a abundance of Consumer purchasing Craftsman Tools. Its amazing how you can ignore the facts on what Sears sells as a whole and the majority of its goods and being imported and think that consumers played a heavy role in the current offshoring of the Pro line. It just amazes me..
Well, Ark i will have to admit.. This is the First time ive ever seen you come into a thread and try and back up your opinion. Thats great... It creates credibility and discussion which is what this forum is about. And its much better than the typical 10 year old Girl routine... Where you run in throw some typical Import Trash around and Run out the door. (See Example Below)
I wouldn't buy one in the first place.
Why dont you take that $89 and wipe your a$$ with it instead. Atleast then your money will work for you
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So you can get 100lbs of torque on a 3/8 ratchet in a six inch confined space?
So think of a different scenario: front of the engine. Plenty of room to swing, but not a lot of depth to fit a bulky 1/2" drive ratchet. Same with some suspension work.
The new CM ratchet reversed at well under 100 lbs (72lb-ft and 83lb-ft according to the test). I'd say it's not out of the realm of possibility that one would apply 100 ft-lb, and 72 lb-ft (or less) is even more likely. With that much variation, do you know when your ratchet will bust your knuckles? Maybe 61 lb-ft? What *is* reasonable for a 3/8" ratchet?
Even the HF composite can take more torque, more reliably.
Bran Diezel
Well-known member
ooooo ooooo oooo i know why they started producing them in china!
so people would actually buy the usa wrenches off the matco truck since they are almost identical
so people would actually buy the usa wrenches off the matco truck
since they are almost identicalarkangel06
Banned
Hiball those were all one liners that do not need to be backed up. The arguments the same every time on why you should buy domestic over forgin everyone already knows and has heard it over And over again and It still doesnt sink in for some. I just try and get my jabs in while I can.
Sure they do.. Your opinion on whether to buy domestic or foreign isnt the most important aspect of every tool discussion Here or abroad. Believe it or not we have members who want to actually know if a tool will work as its intended regardless of Price or Coo.
SocketDeviler
Well-known member
Went to Sears today. Didn't see any Professional wrenches but they were pushing new stock of Cman ratcheting wrenches. The looked and felt like those spline wrenches they released not too long ago. Made in China. There was a decent amount of USA stock left but it's clear the imports are on the rise.
The store had a feeling I've come to know well over the years, one of impending closure.
I didn't see any Cman tools I had to have but I did pick up some German made Empire bent tip tweezers and grease. I wanted some solder but with the exception of two rolls (not what I wanted) they were out of stock. Someone get solder fever?
The store had a feeling I've come to know well over the years, one of impending closure.
I didn't see any Cman tools I had to have but I did pick up some German made Empire bent tip tweezers and grease. I wanted some solder but with the exception of two rolls (not what I wanted) they were out of stock. Someone get solder fever?
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mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2010
- Messages
- 8,043
That 44811 Craftsman won't do the job it was designed to do if you can make it reverce with just the short handle. It's a peice of ****. The same ratchet parts placed in a better body can be twice as strong like the Kobalt. It's built alike but the Kobalt is a much better tool. Craftsman thought they could cut a few corners and end up with the same result. After I tested them I took every 44811 out of every road kit I have and replaced them with Pittsburg Snap-On copies from HF. The reason I didn't know how bad the craftsmans had gotten is I havent used one in years. I always use my snap-on ratchets and just assumed it was just a good old craftsman ratchet like the good old days of solid, dependable and ugly tools.. Still ugly but **** on top of that
T56 Impala
Well-known member
I had to stop reading this thread. Yes it is sad. I guess my USA made Craftsman stuff is now more valuable? I doubt it, I do have to take exception to one thought.... "decisions are made to increase the "bottom line" or the "shareholder value". " This is absolutely correct and this is what this country is built on. Its called capitalism. Stop knocking it.
Manufacturing moving over seas is not this issue. Nor is the implied greed of the managing professionals of any company. This issue comes down to Americans... all Americans pricing themselves out of the world market. Its not the greed of the CEO's killing us, it the greed of the common man. Yes, we have a great standard of living. I predict America is due for a hard fall. We are going to go from a great, dare I say the best, standard of living to that of an merging (or falling in this case) market standard real fast. None of us will be able to afford the "nice things in life" anymore. It will all become a fight for survival within my son's lifetime.
Maybe tooling is the first sign, maybe it just another sign in a long line of symptoms, I don't know. I will, as many of you have, express my distaste about this to Sears corporate as well as at the local level. Will it do anything? No.
Its time to quit blaming other people for things like this. Its no one's fault but our own.
Manufacturing moving over seas is not this issue. Nor is the implied greed of the managing professionals of any company. This issue comes down to Americans... all Americans pricing themselves out of the world market. Its not the greed of the CEO's killing us, it the greed of the common man. Yes, we have a great standard of living. I predict America is due for a hard fall. We are going to go from a great, dare I say the best, standard of living to that of an merging (or falling in this case) market standard real fast. None of us will be able to afford the "nice things in life" anymore. It will all become a fight for survival within my son's lifetime.
Maybe tooling is the first sign, maybe it just another sign in a long line of symptoms, I don't know. I will, as many of you have, express my distaste about this to Sears corporate as well as at the local level. Will it do anything? No.
Its time to quit blaming other people for things like this. Its no one's fault but our own.
arkangel06
Banned
But you know as well as I do how well they are going to work its typical import stuff you get good ones BAD ones.
Sometimes I think most of these therads are started to cause ****.
arkangel06
Banned
Quoted for truth!
bw77
Well-known member
I agree, and it's not just manufacturing. I read the other day that insurance companies are flying Americans to other countries for surgeries that are too expensive to do in the USA.
We are screwed, the dollar is ****, Good Paying Jobs are hard to find and 70% of the goods we buy are made outside the US and Tools arent even on the radar. Ill agree that Greed has assisted in putting us into the current economy but if you are trying to pass the buck soley onto the consumers spending prowlness.. Im not buying it. When i see a company that has a Net income of 297 Million (during a poor economy) and during the next fiscal year they offshore there Pro line of tools, I tend to think the Greed is coming from another direction. Everyone is entitled to there opinion and i can accept that but i can only swallow so much. I do believe that Business's have to always be changing and adapting to current economy conditions to Prosper, I dont believe these companies think the consumer is smart enough to make these decisions. Does everyone remember the Letter that came from Snap on Customer service and how they believe that consumers dont care where there tools came from and they only care about the quality of the tool. How many of you tool junkies buy that BS? Thats what i thought...
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arkangel06
Banned
Hiball its a mix of the two for sure and theres probable alot of other factors we dont even know about that contributed to the move. But there is still a fair ammount of blame to be placed on us.
"US" I think the majority of the blame falls on the Previous generation. In reality they allowed the Walmarts to enter the community and obviously set a presidence that we as Americans would purchase Imported Clothes and general consumables. Now all of a sudden people want to blame the Current consumers who have to deal with a Poor economy and weak dollar and abundance of Imports goods available for purchase and meanwhile its nearly impossible to find US goods. The Blame Game doesnt do any good, The above statement is a prime example. We sold ourselves out and now everybody is pointing fingers but NOBODY is free of blame and i mean NOBODY.