Garage roof disaster

[TomC750]

A friend of mine is building a 30x40 garage himself. He did OK until it came to the roof ,he does not like heights so some of his friends volunteered. The guy who took charge claimed to know what he was doing, and the rest of the crew assumed he did.
And here is the end result: more leaks than is practical to fix, due to screws in at an angle and in the wrong place. The guys working on the one side had more hanging over on the rake than on the other side. So my friend ordered new steel and is tearing off the old. I feel terrible, as I was up north when the roof went on. I have put metal roofs on around 9 buildings and only had one minor leak. Some of the buildings were good size, 30x90, 30x100 and 40x140. And this is in upstate NY with good snow loads some years. My wife and did one standing seam roof, turned out well, but it was tough.

Now, even with my experience, I don't consider myself an expert, and there is always someone with more skills and worthwhile tricks. What I don't believe in is taking shortcuts. Measure accurately from one point and lay it all out first. Understand driving screws correctly for sure. So those are the points I want to make. I told my friend when he is ready to start on the redo, to call me. I am 83, but I will get up there and do my best to get the job started on the right track.

Tom

 

[The Cobbler]

getting friends to help is often a recipe for disaster

 

[LXCam]

That’s admirable and I’m not trying to cast doubt on your abilities. But at your age maybe you’d be a better teacher than a labor. Sounds like his buddies minus one would be a good group for you to teach some lessons on layout and execution.

It’s amazing how many guys don’t understand how to square up an assembly and stay on top of measurements and adjustments.

 

[Mike65]

When we had our metal garage/shop built 2 years ago when the assembly crew was going to put up a wall or roof panel they would lay out where all the beams were & snap chalk lines on the panel so they knew exactly where all the beams were when it came time to drive the screws.

 

[karoc]

I feel his pain, I had good intent to do my roof which is 5/12 which not bad. But as your friend is finding out sometimes friends best intent comes up short. Sometimes it’s limited funds, sometimes it’s the satisfaction of DIY which is my problem plus limited funds. Your friend is lucky that he has friends that is willing to help.
Tom with your knowledge and due to your age you need to be finger pointer or foreman. Maybe he can ask couple friends and yourself to help get it done right and safety

 

[Spud McGee]

You're supposed to pay your friends in beer after the workday, not before.

 

[jar944]

getting friends to help is often a recipe for disaster

Best to know your friends limitations before you agree (or ask) for their help.

 

[cgrutt]

Not sure what underlayment is on there but your friend may want to consider covering the deck with Grace I&W shield to patch up the old screw holes and seal the new ones. Obviously should check with roofing manufacturer if their product is compatible with I&W membrane but believe Grace is good under metal. May want to tear off old metal and cover deck soon while the weather is still somewhat warm. Good luck to your friend that is awful news.

 

[P0234]

It's good to feel empathy for your friend but he made poor choices. It's not your responsibility to fix that. You can give him some good advice and help him choose a capable person to fix it. My dad is over ten years younger than you and I'd never let him up on that kind of project for me. And he's a seriously fit dude. Imagine yourself hurt and the pain it causing your family...

 

[CraigStu]

Tom you can be a great teacher and guide. I helped my SIL plywood his 2 car garage 10-12 roof. At 73 I told him at the start I wasn't going up on it which he was fine with. I did help w/ the first row at the roof edge. Beyond that I could hold one end of a 4x8 sheet, help get it situated on the ladder, help hand tools up etc. At the second row of 4x8s we found we could set the ladder so it was parallel to and laying right on the roof. From that point on my most important role was sitting on the ladder at the ground end while he slid the plywood up and onto the trusses. I mentioned that I felt like I wasn't doing much just sitting there. He says oh yes you are. I can NOT do this at all w/o you there.

 

[Zeke]

Some 83 year old guys are tigers. I don't see myself doing that in 5 years.

 

[NUTTSGT]

You truly don't know another's skills until you actually work with them.

 

[gazza]

Age or skill? or both can be an advantage, I helped a mate put an iron roof on our house, he was a panel beater but spent many years building metal garages with his brother in law. This was done in the mid 90's, still no leaks. In about 2005 I built a 60x40 metal shed, I had to hire a roof plumber to do the roof, he was precise about every sheet because as you walked on the sheets your weight tended to "flatten" the corrugated sheets and alter the width. He marked the width of the individual sheets before screwing them down, screwed the last sheet at the top and bottom first then added the screws in between. He also marked every metre on the top edge and bottom edge to make sure that every sheet was square. Never had any leaks in the metal sheets but I have fixed a few in the polycarb skylights.

 

[Uncle murph]

You truly don't know another's skills until you actually work with them.

This.I’ve worked with 80 yr olds that would put most men half their age to shame,I’ve worked with college aged guys that were beyond useless for anything beyond picking up trash and even then mediocre.

 

[Zeke]

This.I’ve worked with 80 yr olds that would put most men half their age to shame,I’ve worked with college aged guys that were beyond useless for anything beyond picking up trash and even then mediocre.

All too often the truth. But what college aged guys have any time with a tool belt on? You can't expect much from a newbie.

The bad thing is getting someone who is of age and tells you he has been doing so and so for 20 years. I hired a framer to help me a few years back who was about my age. I thought we'd have fun being a couple of old cats. Turns out this guy fed me so much ******** that could have filled the room. I couldn't even call out blocking sizes and get correct cuts. I reversed the procedure and had him measuring and nailing. Hell, he couldn't do that either. I had to take him to lunch and hand him a day's pay and say thanks and sorry. The worst part was he made ME look bad to the customer.

I hate to do that. I've only fired guys in the middle of the day a couple times. You know it's really bad when it comes to that.

 

[scofo]

That does ****. He could use the "used" panels for the interior walls or ceiling liner.

 

[rayra]

A simple ground mockup for training purposes would go a long way to schooling the helpers about what is acceptable and what is not. Real simple to mock up a section of roof to demonstrate panel placement and attachment.

Friend or no, experienced or no, at 83 you have no business going up there. A fall / bad injury will start the snowball of medical events that will end your life.

The barn owner needs to be your primary student and your eyes and hands on the job. Someone can take pictures of what is happening up top and show you. STAY ON THE GROUND.

 

[firebirdparts]

His business card says "How hard could it be?"

 

[Mainiac Mat]

Can we say supervision?

 

[TomC750]

Maybe I should not have mentioned my age! And boy, I certainly understand the concern. I would challenge anyone to guess it by looking at me or watching me work. The amazing thing is that my wife at 80 is the same way. She can easily outwork most 60 year olds. Anyway, it is hard to supervise from the ground.

OK, here is an update: My friend decided to bite the bullet and scrap the roofing, we got it all off and have one side replaced with new steel. One problem was found in the process, not by me, but his 70 year old neighbor who while not experienced in construction is great help. He found the old hand me down measuring tape being used was off a good part of an inch in 20'. We are also using better quality screws. No one from the original crew other than my friend is working on the project. I have not asked if the word got around yet. One of the original crew is my friend's brother who convinced the others he knew what he was doing. I'm waiting for the fallout. More to come.

Tom

 

[The Cobbler]

All too often the truth. But what college aged guys have any time with a tool belt on? You can't expect much from a newbie.

The bad thing is getting someone who is of age and tells you he has been doing so and so for 20 years. I hired a framer to help me a few years back who was about my age. I thought we'd have fun being a couple of old cats. Turns out this guy fed me so much ******** that could have filled the room. I couldn't even call out blocking sizes and get correct cuts. I reversed the procedure and had him measuring and nailing. Hell, he couldn't do that either. I had to take him to lunch and hand him a day's pay and say thanks and sorry. The worst part was he made ME look bad to the customer.

I hate to do that. I've only fired guys in the middle of the day a couple times. You know it's really bad when it comes to that.

had a guy said, oh yeah, I can do trim. I've done lots of it. ( a friends neighbour) I was stuck on a job, behind, short a guy(sick) and I brought him in. he couldn't measure, couldn't cut , couldn't nail couldn't caulk ...
another guy , to staple underlay for flooring.apparently done hundreds of sheets of luan. couldn't cut, couldn't measure, couldn't staple

 

[CraigStu]

I have been lucky w/ the guys who have helped me over the years. One time we were building a deck extension. I happened to measure, mark w/ a pencil, and he was going to cut. He asks, do you want to leave the line or not. I said what? He explained what he meant. I said, yeah, sorry, leave the line. Inside I was thinking this is an 8ft board, a pencil line is what maybe 1/32 wide? Who cares? But from then on, I appreciated his attention to detail. Another time I was helping my brother build roof trusses for his gambrel style house roof. We laid one out on the gravel drive and nailed it together, did another on top of that one, and another. This is nice, each one we do we need to bend over less. But he got his tape out and checked the 5th one which was wide at the base by about 1 1/4inch. Ah ****, I guess we need to build all of them off the first one or we will keep getting dimension creep.

 

[TomC750]

I ama bit slow on reporting the latest progress (busy will do that to you). We got the good crew together Thursday, and got the job done. It looks great, and we are quite confident there will be no leaks. Interestingly, at the end of the day, the most worn out guy was the youngest, the garage owner!

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I ama bit slow on reporting the latest progress (busy will do that to you). We got the good crew together Thursday, and got the job done. It looks great, and we are quite confident there will be no leaks. Interestingly, at the end of the day, the most worn out guy was the youngest, the garage owner!

Glad you got it done. I was going to comment not to pay attention to the naysayers.