Has anyone noticed a drastic decline in Wiha quality?

[Armatron]

I have a full set of T handle allen, tons of bits, couple sets of precision drivers. Over the last couple years, the allen stuff is now plated, almost chrome. And the coating flakes off if you breath on it funny. The sizing doesn't seem quite right, either a little loose or a little snug depending on size. Just inconsistent basically.

Now I've noticed the precision drivers no longer say made in Germany.

Did something happen with Wiha?

 

[tube_guy]

Yes, I've noticed a sharp decline in quality.

They've changed the country of origin for a lot of their tools.

And KCTool dumped them for a reason.

 

[bwringer]

Well, Wiha tools started popping up a bLowe's not long ago. That's probably not a good sign; lie down with dogs, you get fleas.

 

[Ratchet.]

Thats a shame, Wera did the same a number of years back, and there was a visible decline in quality on a number of their products too (may have improived since..)

***** that companies arent happy with just saving money on labour by moving to a country with lower costs, they also have to cheapen the materials and product while they do it.

Particularly bad for tools that people buy because of the quality of them. They then proceed to lose customers/money, and double down rather than fix the issue.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

The Polish-made precision drivers are still good-to-go. I don’t see any discernible differences there over the older German-made ones.

It sure about the hex keys but a lot of their bit sockets are Vietnamese-made but I believe that has been the case for some time.

I thought KC Tool dumped Wiha because of Wiha’s US manufacturing expansion (it doesn’t jive with KC’s German production offerings) and because Wiha started working with Lowes for distribution.

 

[Dave455]

There is a decline. It’s not drastic, and doesn’t affect every tool, but it’s there.

The 1/4” hex screwdriver bits were the first I noticed. The Original German made ones were very decent, the outsourced ones (Vietnam?) noticeably less so.

Pliers - were not something Wiha traditionally made, and were made in Vietnam from the outset. They don’t seem bad, but I don’t own any, and as they’re the same money as Knipex for me, there’s no incentive to buy any.

Screwdrivers - seem still to be o.k. but they were always mid price / workshop grade tools anyway, and the best ones (acetate handles) have been discontinued. The hex shank with the flared tips are nice.


Micro screwdrivers - don’t know about the quality of the current ones, but the old ones, while “o.k” were never really top end. Again, the hard handle models have been discontinued, so you can only get the soft “pica” finish now.

Hex Keys (conventional ones, not T handled) - still seem to be good, I’d buy them without question, but they are made in Germany (at least the last I saw were). The Torx keys are particularly nice I think.

There are some tools (those “26 in 1”, or whatever, bit drivers) that seem to be specially made for the U.S. market and don’t seem great. Some tools (bit sockets I think) seem to be made for, and only sold in, the U.S.

 

[Kuma601]

I have an old T5 (Germany) driver that has been used on probably 3K fasteners. I bought a handful thinking I'd go through them every 4-600 or so. Still using that original hard chromed version. Reading this brings disappointment as the other Wiha stuff has done really well for me. I've been shopping for another few drivers and IDK who to choose.

 

[Bubba Fett]

That's a shame. I've always liked their precision screwdrivers. They have probably had some supplier issues, like everyone else.

 

[Old Man Roger]

I heard Honda bought them.

 

[KnurledNut]

Facsimile from the last thread we had on this:

 

[bpwoodworking]

I have older Wiha Germany stuff and it’s great. The new box store stuff is typical box store quality.

Baffles me that companies still do this, since of course it worked so perfectly well for the American companies that hollowed out their brands.

I don’t understand why box stores don’t get that some customers might want to walk in and buy this brand or similar in they’re original quality and not simply as a brand name stamped onto a second tier product.

 

[teknikfrog]

I recently splurged on a set of their screwdrivers (in the foam tray). The most I've ever spent on a set of screwdrivers, ever, by a lot. They're pretty nice but I'm totally unimpressed by them and would not buy again. Also the finish on the plastic/rubber whatever just attracts dirt and oil like crazy and their nearly impossible to clean. The foam tray is nice though!

Oh and funny story. Where I live the post office is beyond incompetent and they managed to lose TWO sets of these in a row and amazon ended up refusing to ship a third set and refunded me. I gave up and moved on with my life. About six months later I was at the post office looking for another package and they walked out with one of my missing Wiha sets. So they ended up being free, so that's nice.

 

[InjectorService]

I have 1 Wiha tool, my first and last. A set of duckbill pliers. Absolute trash. Won't buy another tool from them.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I have older Wiha Germany stuff and it’s great. The new box store stuff is typical box store quality.

Baffles me that companies still do this, since of course it worked so perfectly well for the American companies that hollowed out their brands.

I don’t understand why box stores don’t get that some customers might want to walk in and buy this brand or similar in they’re original quality and not simply as a brand name stamped onto a second tier product.

It's just a game to sell people the brand, and eventually abandon it.

Lowes of whoever doesn't care about Whia, building decks, or selling home goods - It's all about the numbers on the balance sheet. They'd rather sell junk at a better margin than quality. And frankly the American consumer is often the same way.

Somebody gets a bonus for cutting costs. Sales go up a bit from a lower price point. Eventually the brand is indistinguishable from others in the market, and when trouble arrive the brand dies. Hopefully Whia isn't betting on the unwashed masses to appreciate quality, or win the race to the bottom. If they can just produce their standard product with a good quality and not chase numbers they'll be fine.

 

[MarvinBerry]

Well, Wiha tools started popping up a bLowe's not long ago. That's probably not a good sign; lie down with dogs, you get fleas.

Can't say about other stores but the only local bLowes in NJ got Wiha in stock last year & blew it all out... full clearance about 6 months later.

As of today, even 6-8months ago it was all gone. No more Wiha seemed more like an experiment then a commitment.

The couple things I bought... two sets of mini drivers, regular screwdrivers & needlenose iirc were all made in Germany. Certainly nothing stamped with an Asian sources.

Overall I've been happy with the stuff, esp the pliers & mini drivers. Full size drivers have great machining... tips are awesome no doubt but I don't love the handles. ,maybe if they were more uniform in size... feels weird to switch drivers but the quality is definitely on point.

 

[neophyte]

Even back when Wiha tools were mostly German made, there were still instances of **** quality.
I like the Wiha system 6 (6mm hex shank) system, but the older nut drivers would not please most GJ members with the way they were made, especially compared to typical USA made nut drivers made during the same time frame.
A couple of the blades were soft on the flat head bits, and bent way too easily.
Other items they made at the same time were excellent.
Their ergonomics were usually always great, and way better than the average USA brand, outside of brands like Snap-On and other pro brands.

Nowadays, Wiha seems to be trying to be Stanley, or something similar.

 

[reclaimer]

The quality seems to be all over the place. I have a German made centrofix bit holder which is probably the best available. The mini ratchet (Taiwan) and bit set in the metal case is a great package. But the compound cutting pliers from Vietnam are pretty bad in fit, finish, and performance. And I got a different bit holder which I had to return because it wouldn't lock the bits in. Bizzare.

My Lowes still has a decent amount of Wiha in stock, they did liquidate some drivers and stuff a while back but after my experience with the poor QC it wasn't worth it. I've been using their terminator bits and have been pretty happy with those as an alternative to Makita impact bits for day to day beating. But waiting for them to go on sale before buying more. The plastic sleeve on the longer bits is a great fit for those magnetic screw-holding devices that slide over the bit.

I don't understand why these brands all feel the need to have a catalog with 4000 products, then they outsource half of them and weaken the brand.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Generally tool companies that only make certain types of tools tend to be really good at it. Think Estwing, Vaughan, Vessel, Wera, Knipex, Mayhew, etc. They stick to a certain category, and don't try to be everything.

Wiha was in that list, but they don't seem to be as concerned about quality now. A lot of the stuff we've seen in Lowe's is probably contract-manufactured by third parties. But even their bits are not as well made as they used to be. They don't have the precision machine marks and now almost look like they are casts or made from powdered metal.

 

[roofdweller49]

Who's everyone's favorite micro screwdriver brand now?

 

[BrandonV]

Generally tool companies that only make certain types of tools tend to be really good at it. Think Estwing, Vaughan, Vessel, Wera, Knipex, Mayhew, etc. They stick to a certain category, and don't try to be everything.

Wiha was in that list, but they don't seem to be as concerned about quality now. A lot of the stuff we've seen in Lowe's is probably contract-manufactured by third parties. But even their bits are not as well made as they used to be. They don't have the precision machine marks and now almost look like they are casts or made from powdered metal.

I think their screwdrivers are still fairly decent - but yes... if you go overseas Wiha makes all sort of **** now which is just rebrands of XYZ...

Think the German version of Klein... screwdrivers and pliers are good (made in USA) but a lot of the other stuff is just rebranded stuff.

 

[Dave455]

Who's everyone's favorite micro screwdriver brand now?

PB Swiss or Facom.

Wiha were never my favourite micro screwdrivers, but they were o.k. Good “workshop” grade,

PB Swiss and Facom are, and always have been, a notch above. I’ve had little to do with the Wera, but I think even they are probably better than Wiha now.

 

[Kuma601]

This is relative as many of the tool companies among other consumer level products have a range of quality issues. Some better than others. Wiha dropped the hard handle hard chrome finish shafts long ago and I wish I had bought the whole range. As a basic I didn't feel they would drop a quality product. In these times of margins obviously that decision had been made so these things become even more disposable/lower quality.

Maybe I will have to just spring for PB Swiss. The Wiha Go Box is decent but the micro bit handle is so-so. This is passable for a simple 10 minute fix it session but not if I'm tuning a bunch of screws. There are guys turning nice titanium micro bit handles but I'm 50-50 for using them with the range of bits out there.

This is what I did to the T5 driver, by cutting the shaft off and placing that into a pin vise.

 

[Grokew]

PB Swiss or Facom.

Wiha were never my favourite micro screwdrivers, but they were o.k. Good “workshop” grade,

PB Swiss and Facom are, and always have been, a notch above. I’ve had little to do with the Wera, but I think even they are probably better than Wiha now.

I have only one wera jcis #00 precision screwdriver, and love it. But then again, all my other precision screwdrivers have been el cheapo thin metal ones, with shafts that somehow manage to spin inside the metal handle, and accomplish nothing, or really cheap bit drivers from Kmart (RIP), with super soft bits.

 

[Grokew]

This is relative as many of the tool companies among other consumer level products have a range of quality issues. Some better than others. Wiha dropped the hard handle hard chrome finish shafts long ago and I wish I had bought the whole range. As a basic I didn't feel they would drop a quality product. In these times of margins obviously that decision had been made so these things become even more disposable/lower quality.

Maybe I will have to just spring for PB Swiss. The Wiha Go Box is decent but the micro bit handle is so-so. This is passable for a simple 10 minute fix it session but not if I'm tuning a bunch of screws. There are guys turning nice titanium micro bit handles but I'm 50-50 for using them with the range of bits out there.

This is what I did to the T5 driver, by cutting the shaft off and placing that into a pin vise.

What about Wiha microbits, with an iFixit handle? It will not be as precise as an actual screwdriver, or a bit being held by a clutch mechanism, but it feels so nice, and the thick handle, would allow you to apply torque without pain.

 

[Dave455]

Older Wiha (W.Germany)

Facom

Two styles of PB Swiss. All 2.5mm.

And close ups of the tips, same order.

The longer PB Swiss is the most used.

 

[Kuma601]

What about Wiha microbits, with an iFixit handle? It will not be as precise as an actual screwdriver, or a bit being held by a clutch mechanism, but it feels so nice, and the thick handle, would allow you to apply torque without pain.

I'll look into those. Thanks!

Was just looking at Haus of Tools and they have the PB Swiss 400 series, those look good. At $10 that is fair pricing.

 

[Grokew]

I'll look into those. Thanks!

Was just looking at Haus of Tools and they have the PB Swiss 400 series, those look good. At $10 that is fair pricing.

Those look nice. Plus they smell like vanilla.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Felo and Klein have a line of standalone precision drivers. I haven't tried them though. I do like iFixit bits, but my set is pretty old, before they improved the driver handle. Felo is often a little overlooked (around here) for standard size drivers, IMO.

Moody is known for their precision drivers, though I haven't tried them. Their tip selection is limited.

I have a set up Slotted, Phillips, and Torx mini drivers from Master Mechanic, made by Pratt-Read. They have acetate handles, but no spin-caps. However, most have indentions on the end, which serves a similar purpose. They have been decent, and the tips appear to be as good as Wiha was in terms if machining. New ones are made in China, and don't look very impressive.

 

[Dave455]

Not totally relevant, but as I was rumaging through my micro screwdrivers…!

PB Swiss Pocket Screwdriver
PB Swiss Insider Mini (micro bit driver)
Eclipse Pocket Screwdriver (England)
Starrett Pocket Screwdriver (U.S.A)
Swann Morton Micro Scalpel (England)
Britool Miniature Screwdriver (England - military contract)
Bergeon Watchmakers Bit Driver (Swiss)

 

[terrific]

iFixit sells a few of the cyan drivers from Moody. I think they're ~$9 each. They also sell a US quarter for $3.

 

[KnurledNut]

Threads like this help ruin a companys reputation, based on little more than guesswork, personal preference, COO dislikes, or simple bias.
Thanks to the handful that submitted real experience, good or bad.

 

[Armatron]

Threads like this help ruin a companys reputation, based on little more than guesswork, personal preference, COO dislikes, or simple bias.
Thanks to the handful that submitted real experience, good or bad.

I know that you posted a screenshot early on, but for me at least, I've seen this across at least 4 different types of tools.. Where I bought the same tool from 5 years ago, and the current version is very noticeably garbage.

None of my issues have to do with COO or bias. It's blatantly obvious that their tools are not of the same tolerance, and definitely not of the same finish. I have in my hand a set of wiha allen keys where some chrome plating/finish has broken off and drastically altered how they fit into fasteners.

I just order the tool and use it. These current wiha tools aren't holding up to even light use. I would argue that you clearly haven't used whatever tools wiha is putting out, because they do not hold up to their reputation.

For whatever it's worth, about 6 months ago I sent pics of a different set of allen keys with the chrome coating flaking after light use to wiha - asking did something change, is this normal? No reply.

 

[Armatron]

Here are some pics of real experience. Left side set is at least 7-8 years old, probably older. Made in Germany. Used for automotive and motorcycle stuff, not abused but definitely used. Right side set is from the last year or two, made in Poland.

Help me understand the guesswork of the newer set having the coating flaking off, measuring 5-6 thou thinner than the older made in Germany set. The newer Poland set put together an ikea desk, random stuff around the office, light-duty use.

 

[Kuma601]

Thanks for mentioning Felo! I have the Ergonic set that I like, those may be a possibility.

My main priority is quality of fit to the fastener as drivers are wear items. Having a combo that the fastener and driver fit that well makes life nicer.

 

[bonneyman]

I hope the quality hasn't dropped. I have a few of their precision divers and like them.

 

[Kuma601]

Here are some pics of real experience. Left side set is at least 7-8 years old, probably older. Made in Germany. Used for automotive and motorcycle stuff, not abused but definitely used. Right side set is from the last year or two, made in Poland.

Help me understand the guesswork of the newer set having the coating flaking off, measuring 5-6 thou thinner than the older made in Germany set. The newer Poland set put together an ikea desk, random stuff around the office, light-duty use.

That's disappointing. Seems that the older excellent drivers are the ones to have, these new ones seem iffy. Part of me is tempted to try the Tekton Torx/star drivers. The little voice in me is saying PB Swiss but the wallet is saying no. IDK how Wera fits in. Will cross Wiha off unless it states Germany.

 

[Dave455]

Here are some pics of real experience. Left side set is at least 7-8 years old, probably older. Made in Germany. Used for automotive and motorcycle stuff, not abused but definitely used. Right side set is from the last year or two, made in Poland.

Help me understand the guesswork of the newer set having the coating flaking off, measuring 5-6 thou thinner than the older made in Germany set. The newer Poland set put together an ikea desk, random stuff around the office, light-duty use.

Very interesting!

When I earlier wrote that the “hex keys still seem to be good” I wasn’t aware that they had outsourced these as well. The last I saw were German made.

I’m afraid that’s very poor performance.

 

[Dave455]

That's disappointing. Seems that the older excellent drivers are the ones to have, these new ones seem iffy. Part of me is tempted to try the Tekton Torx/star drivers. The little voice in me is saying PB Swiss but the wallet is saying no. IDK how Wera fits in. Will cross Wiha off unless it states Germany.

Wera are very good, PB Swiss are excellent. The two together make a good combination.

Facom are very good as well. Not flashy, but an incredibly good fit.

You can do worse than use the regular Bondhus or Eklind, especially if you are in the U.S. You won’t see either of these 5 thou undersize, or losing finish after light use!

 

[zendriver]

Of those that buy these tools, how many shop for the lowest price?

Just curious.

 

[lardy1]

I've been buying Wiha pliers and cutters a bit lately. I find them to be comfortable, well aligned and so far they've been durable. A pretty good deal for the price, in my opinion.