Has anyone noticed a drastic decline in Wiha quality?

[KnurledNut]

I've been buying Wiha pliers and cutters a bit lately. I find them to be comfortable, well aligned and so far they've been durable. A pretty good deal for the price, in my opinion.

My 32636 BiCuts have held up very well. A little awkward to handle in power mode but the cutting edges have been impressive.
——-

When Wiha recently “updated” their branding with a bigger name and simpler layout, like on their screwdrivers and packaging, the new design gave the tools a cheaper look.
I understand why they did it, the old labeling wore off quickly, it was kinda bland and plain, and the new is very eye-catching.
A local supply house stocks some of their new line, and its very bright. But at the loss of some of the professional look. They have sold quite a bit, with minimal complaints or returns.
——-

My most recent purchases have been bits and they have performed as expected. Machining and fit have been on par with their old stuff.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Of those that buy these tools, how many shop for the lowest price?

Just curious.

First-time shoppers. Anyone who uses precision tools for more than one project will quickly learn that the better tools are worth it.

 

[Jicle]

Wiha does not make quality tools anymore, most are made in Vietnam. They do not deserve any business as far as Im concerned. If someone buys Wiha tools looking for high quality durable tools, I sigh. There are so many great real German and US made tools to choose from. Don't go with the fake German tools, like Wiha. Maybe the company just got too big and it became too expensive to sustain themselves in liberal Germany? That's my theory. Either way, I made a thread over a year and a half ago showcasing wihas trash quality, and got lambasted for it in the comments.

Still think Wiha makes quality tools?

In any case bits (especially philips and flathead) are the prime example of not a priority for most companies and literally the last thing one should be judged off of, every wiha product I’ve ever used was great (including the one or two I’ve broken, both flathead micro screwdrivers of course)...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[Kuma601]

I spend relative to use though want the quality within my wallet capabilities, midrange typically.

 

[dnschmidt]

I have 1 Wiha tool, my first and last. A set of duckbill pliers. Absolute trash. Won't buy another tool from them.

You don't buy pliers from Wiha. You buy pliers from Knipex. You buy screwdrivers from Wiha.

 

[zendriver]

Wiha does not make quality tools anymore, most are made in Vietnam. They do not deserve any business as far as Im concerned. If someone buys Wiha tools looking for high quality durable tools, I sigh. There are so many great real German and US made tools to choose from. Don't go with the fake German tools, like Wiha. Maybe the company just got too big and it became too expensive to sustain themselves in liberal Germany? That's my theory. Either way, I made a thread over a year and a half ago showcasing wihas trash quality, and got lambasted for it in the comments.

Still think Wiha makes quality tools?

In any case bits (especially philips and flathead) are the prime example of not a priority for most companies and literally the last thing one should be judged off of, every wiha product I’ve ever used was great (including the one or two I’ve broken, both flathead micro screwdrivers of course)...

www.garagejournal.com

Maybe they’re just facing economic reality, like every other country on earth, many of which they are competing against

The company might just wish that you buy somewhere else

At least you won’t be trashing them.

 

[Kscardsfan]

First-time shoppers. Anyone who uses precision tools for more than one project will quickly learn that the better tools are worth it.

I weigh this in my head before a project. It’s why HF exists in my mind. If it just needs to work once and get done, cheap is fine. If I think I’ll use it at all more than once, I’m willing to buy better stuff. I have been steadily upgrading my various hand drivers over the last 2-3 years to get better engagement and fit and better ergonomics just because they get used so much.

 

[AJHD]

Serious question... Has any tool actually improved in quality after manufacturing was moved off-shore? I can't think of any in my experience.

 

[neophyte]

You don't buy pliers from Wiha. You buy pliers from Knipex. You buy screwdrivers from Wiha.

Wiha has been making, or at least selling, pliers for at least 25 years.
I’m not sure were the current ones are made, but the pliers used to be made in Switzerland, and were available in 1000v insulated version to go along with their insulated screwdrivers.
I have no clue if Wiha made the pliers in their own factory.
I never bought a pair, but they were selling the pliers back when all their screwdrivers and bits were made in Germany, and before the local industrial hardware store were I first came across Wiha was pushed out of business by Home Depot.

 

[matthew]

Distribution is part of the problem. The big boys are retail people, not hardware people. They’re not interested in picking and choosing individual items of quality, there’s more leverage or more ease of doing business if everything is the same brand. And then you have eye pleasing displays. There’s room for boutique brands, but only so much room.

Consumers will only pay more if they know the difference. But that’s a chicken and egg thing - won’t pay for it until they’ve tried it, won’t try it if they have to pay for it.

My dad’s old W.Germany precision set is awesome. They have an huge line of precision tools. And I used a recent bitratchet that was decent. If they focus on the basics they can be back in the game.

 

[KnurledNut]

Serious question... Has any tool actually improved in quality after manufacturing was moved off-shore? I can't think of any in my experience.

Craftsman ratchets.

 

[Kuma601]

Loosen or torque enough fasteners having a tool that fits them right is important. The dislike of a bungled up fastener irritates me and more so if a loose spec tool has been used that leaves marks. This was given to me to fix as the owner messed it all up.

 

[InjectorService]

You don't buy pliers from Wiha. You buy pliers from Knipex. You buy screwdrivers from Wiha.

Well, I won't be buying those either. They put their name on the product, I expect them to hold ture to that. I shouldn't have to sift through which products of theirs are acceptably made and which aren't.

 

[Jicle]

Maybe they’re just facing economic reality, like every other country on earth, many of which they are competing against

The company might just wish that you buy somewhere else

At least you won’t be trashing them.

It's too late. If you look at the thread I posted thatI linked, you will see all the broken wiha bits being used for terminal blocks. I did not own them and didn't buy them. All I did was come across a bowl of broken bits and 90% were Wiha bits

 

[JBH]

Pliers - were not something Wiha traditionally made, and were made in Vietnam from the outset. They don’t seem bad, but I don’t own any, and as they’re the same money as Knipex for me, there’s no incentive to buy any.

You don't buy pliers from Wiha. You buy pliers from Knipex. You buy screwdrivers from Wiha.

Wiha used to have some really nice pliers. For a while they were Swiss made and had superb handle ergonomics. They also had some pistol grip pliers (Inomic or something like that) that were nice for light duty use but had too much plastic to take much torque. At one point, not sure if before or after the Swiss ones, they bought their pliers from Knipex’s subsidiary Orbis. The current pliers…not impressive IMO.

I haven’t bought anything Wiha in a long time so I can’t speak to any decline. They do seem to be selling more gimmick/junk tools, such as those terrible stamped steel stepped blade wire cutter implements that most Americans seem to use (due to lack of exposure to better tools?).

 

[F-22]

Has any tool actually improved in quality after manufacturing was moved off-shore? I can't think of any in my experience.

Not "off-shore", but the Czech made Wera screwdrivers, bits and allen keys are in my opinion as good as those things can be. I may not be a fan of the sleeves on the allen keys and the handles on the screwdrivers, but those aren't quality issues I could fault them for.


Out of the "german" brands, Wiha and Felo were always the most uninteresting to me. They just never had anything unique enough that would wow me. I like the screwdriver handles a lot more than the Wera handles.

For precision screwdrivers, we have PB Swiss and Wera at work. PB Swiss is in my opinion the best, hard to question that. Facom looks really neat. However I have a set of Anex precision bits at home and am also very happy with them - but I generally do not have a huge need for them. They are made in Japan and seem to be durable and if I recall correctly they were really affordable.

 

[AJHD]

Not "off-shore", but the Czech made Wera screwdrivers, bits and allen keys are in my opinion as good as those things can be. I may not be a fan of the sleeves on the allen keys and the handles on the screwdrivers, but those aren't quality issues I could fault them for.

I know Wera is a German tool brand.
But how much of their product lineup is actually made in Germany? Has this changed over time?

Were the tools made in the Czech Republic once made in Germany? If yes, how did their quality change after moving manufacturing from Germany?

 

[F-22]

I know Wera is a German tool brand.
But how much of their product lineup is actually made in Germany? Has this changed over time?

I think the only thing Wera makes in Germany today, is profit from sales Their manufacturing of their core products is in the Czech republic. And they outsource all of the sockets and ratchet mechanisms from Taiwan.

Wera used to make screwdrivers in Wuppertal. Not sure when they stopped, probably the 90's.

This is one of the old ones:



I have one hex driver but that's older and uses a very conventional acetate handle, not the weralit shape.
I know they still sell these acetate Weralit drivers in South Africa and Namibia which is weird. Considering Namibia used to be a German colony (and known as south-west Africa), maybe they shipped the tooling there (or to south africa) and just continued making the old German designs there for that market to this day? It's weird. I know Gedore also makes some stuff there.

Anyway, I'd say that the modern Wera screwdrivers are better (if you like the handles). Very durable and quality made. I do not believe they'd be any better if made across the border in Germany. In fact, that part of western Europe used to be a very important industrial hub (Bohemia). Lower wages and yet the vicinity and modern European manfacturing makes countries like the Czech republic very appealing for German companies... Many parts for "German" cars are not actually made in Germany, just assembled. Škoda is huge, for example...

 

[bpwoodworking]

Felo stuff is great, I use their impact bits and while they are unassuming, they hold up very well.

They aren’t PB Swiss, but for the impact driver they are excellent. I feel they wear better than Wera and Wiha but I haven’t done testing.

 

[Dave455]

Wiha used to have some really nice pliers. For a while they were Swiss made and had superb handle ergonomics. They also had some pistol grip pliers (Inomic or something like that) that were nice for light duty use but had too much plastic to take much torque. At one point, not sure if before or after the Swiss ones, they bought their pliers from Knipex’s subsidiary Orbis. The current pliers…not impressive IMO.

I haven’t bought anything Wiha in a long time so I can’t speak to any decline. They do seem to be selling more gimmick/junk tools, such as those terrible stamped steel stepped blade wire cutter implements that most Americans seem to use (due to lack of exposure to better tools?).

I don’t remember the Swiss made pliers. I assume these were something Wiha had made for them.

The pistol grip pliers were called “Inomic”. I bought a pair on some deal, and you’re dead right - far too much plastic in the mechanism. Probably just as well as the jaws looked like they were cast, and would have given up under any real load.

I did use them for some assembly work, and they were o.k. for that provided you used them in the vertical orientation. If you had to twist them 90 degrees they were awful.

For the intended purpose, which was obviously electrical work and wire stripping, they were totally useless.

 

[Bubba Fett]

When I first got into PC repair, the only "precision" screwdrivers I could find were those generlic jeweler's screwdrivers that are sold under various brand names. They all sucked, but some were better than others.

Then I found Craftsman had a line of precision drivers which were much better. They were made by General tools, in the USA (for a time). But the tips were still not quite precise enough, and they were not durable. I had one roll off a table and hit the floor. It broke in half. Sears replaced it though.

Then one day at work, I got a part in the mail, and it came with a Wiha chip lifter. Never heard of them, but that tool was nice. I used it for pushing wires into backs of patch panels and network jacks, which saves my fingernails. I still use it for that reason to this day.

So I got a sets of Slotted, Phillips, and Torx drivers, all made in Germany, and shall only be pried from my cold, dead hands.

 

[lardy1]

I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong with Wiha pliers (other than the butthurt of changing COO). I have at least four types and I use them all. They aren't Snap-On or Knipex but they do everything I want them to do.

Background: I ordered a pair of Proto needle nose from Amazon. They looked like **** so I asked for replacement. The replacements were just as bad. Very poor alignment and they showed light when closed. For the hell of it (there was a sale) I ordered the same size Wiha. The fit and finish is flawless. No problems at all. I liked them better than my Channellock so I bought more. For the price point, I see absolutely nothing wrong with Wiha pliers for the home gamer.

 

[Dave455]

I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong with Wiha pliers (other than the butthurt of changing COO). I have at least four types and I use them all. They aren't Snap-On or Knipex but they do everything I want them to do.

Background: I ordered a pair of Proto needle nose from Amazon. They looked like **** so I asked for replacement. The replacements were just as bad. Very poor alignment and they showed light when closed. For the hell of it (there was a sale) I ordered the same size Wiha. The fit and finish is flawless. No problems at all. I liked them better than my Channellock so I bought more. For the price point, I see absolutely nothing wrong with Wiha pliers for the home gamer.

Wiha have not, to my knowledge changed the COO of their pliers. Their present lineup was made in Vietnam right from introduction.

The main problem with them, I think depends on where you are. In the U.K. (and I think in Europe) we can get German made Knipex (or Japan made Tsunoda) for the same or less money than Wiha want for Vietnam made tools. Alternatively, I can get more basic German made pliers for about half the cost of the Wiha.

It may be different in other countries, perhaps if they are priced considerably cheaper than Knipex, but here there isn’t really a sector of the market where they make sense.

I see them stocked at one electrical wholesaler, and they probably make some sales to account customers who are not particularly knowledgeable about tools, but that’s about it!

 

[KnurledNut]

@Grant Gunderson
How have your circlip pliers with the magic tips held up?

 

[LostBoy(IRL)]

Shame to read of a potential decline, decent drivers. Had to check mine, drivers all Germany, the two torx are actually W. Germany, so they go back a while, these are from my in doors box, so clean and little used, suspect I have others in the workshop that are used more often, but mixed brands out there.


Just checked the workshop, nine others out there, mainly torx, all Germany.
Agree with Dave above, in Europe there are other options, so I think most of these were picked up on clearance as opposed to being searched out.

 

[Kuma601]

I wish PB Swiss had a more accessible dealer network for me. I get that shipping costs so an order for 2 drivers is just at $40. Of course to make it efficient I need to order more at those flat rates yet I don't need to stock up. The local tool shop has Wera but by the time I buy those 2 from him that same $ buys the online. Or if I support Bezo's company that buys the whole set of Wera drivers. I just wanted a T6 and T8 nothing more but not get bent over either.

Bahco makes a variety under other names and the Lindstrom line comes up at $7/each. IDK how their tip/shaft composition is yet $7 opposed to $12-$18 is far more appealing. I'd certainly pay the $12 PB Swiss price but by the time shipping factors in it is a $20 screwdriver. If willing to pay that much there is SO, Mac or Matco. (The SO is that same Bahco driver at 2X.)

 

[Grant Gunderson]

@Grant Gunderson
How have your circlip pliers with the magic tips held up?

Great. Zero issues or complaints.

 

[dnschmidt]

Whenever a thread like this pops up (Have you noticed that XXXXX tools now ****?) it seems the outrage flows like water. I use Wiha, both new and old and I haven't noticed a damn thing wrong with any Wiha stuff. But once again I only have Wiha screwdrivers. I obviously have a lifetimes worth of TOPTUL hex keys which are fine and if I needed any more (which I don't) I'd go with Bondhus which are the hex key and Torx bit guys.
Has anybody ever noticed a thread where it's like: XXXX tools have really improved since they first came out. If there has ever been one I apparently have missed it.

 

[KnurledNut]

Has anybody ever noticed a thread where it's like: XXXX tools have really improved since they first came out. If there has ever been one I apparently have missed it.

In a nutshell, every Tekton thread.

 

[neophyte]

Whenever a thread like this pops up (Have you noticed that XXXXX tools now ****?) it seems the outrage flows like water. I use Wiha, both new and old and I haven't noticed a damn thing wrong with any Wiha stuff. But once again I only have Wiha screwdrivers. I obviously have a lifetimes worth of TOPTUL hex keys which are fine and if I needed any more (which I don't) I'd go with Bondhus which are the hex key and Torx bit guys.
Has anybody ever noticed a thread where it's like: XXXX tools have really improved since they first came out. If there has ever been one I apparently have missed it.

Newer Moody made tools are better than the older stuff that I’ve seen.
Maun has improved the machining on their pliers over the decades, but has started using U shaped handles, so there’s sort of a trade off.
French made Facom pliers seem to have gotten better over the years, going from very good to excellent.
Harbor Freight has certainly improved their offerings over the years.

 

[Kuma601]

Whenever a thread like this pops up (Have you noticed that XXXXX tools now ****?) it seems the outrage flows like water. I use Wiha, both new and old and I haven't noticed a damn thing wrong with any Wiha stuff. But once again I only have Wiha screwdrivers. I obviously have a lifetimes worth of TOPTUL hex keys which are fine and if I needed any more (which I don't) I'd go with Bondhus which are the hex key and Torx bit guys.
Has anybody ever noticed a thread where it's like: XXXX tools have really improved since they first came out. If there has ever been one I apparently have missed it.

Those Tekton threads seem to be improving. I've not been disappointed with the Bondhus hex wrenches here. One would feel that manufacturing processes can be very precise yet to balance the cost of those $$ machines they go with build materials that are available at lower costs. A step forward and a step back.

 

[Kuma601]

After this thread went and ordered a Wera T6 to try out, I feel the fit is pretty sloppy. The T6 bit in the Wiha Gobox #75958 fits the fasteners snugly with barely any wiggle. I have been pleased with the Gobox bits from T5-T10 though I want individual drivers. Maybe look into some PB Swiss PB 8124-6 through 8124-10 precision ones.



YMMV

 

[AEAdam]

I’m glad I bought my Wiha pica drivers before the quality fade. I really like them.

Never been a fan of German pliers. Every pair I’ve bought have had jaws too soft for me. Even Klein seem more durable.

For mini pliers I have Xuron. That’s the brand we use on aircraft beside Snap On.

 

[Shocker]

Those Wittron drivers are made by Witte.

WITTE Tools: PRO WITTRON^®

 

[Fedwrench]

I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong with Wiha pliers (other than the butthurt of changing COO). I have at least four types and I use them all. They aren't Snap-On or Knipex but they do everything I want them to do.

Background: I ordered a pair of Proto needle nose from Amazon. They looked like **** so I asked for replacement. The replacements were just as bad. Very poor alignment and they showed light when closed. For the hell of it (there was a sale) I ordered the same size Wiha. The fit and finish is flawless. No problems at all. I liked them better than my Channellock so I bought more. For the price point, I see absolutely nothing wrong with Wiha pliers for the home gamer.

I think current regular red grip Proto pliers are sourced from Wilde. I have some German made Wiha pliers and a set of Vietnam made Wiha pliers. I haven't had any issues with them.
I miss the old school Wiha anti slip rectangular handled screwdrivers. The roughed surface was great when covered in ATF or coolant. You could always get a great grip. I also liked the hex shaped blades for easy finger spinning.

 

[Beemer]

German made stuff is definately over rated.
I've had my share of getting taken.

 

[dnschmidt]

German made stuff is definately over rated.
I've had my share of getting taken.

Especially BMW.

 

[Steve_P]

All of my Wiha drivers are made in Germany and are awesome; but they're all 5+ years old. So I don't know what they're doing now. I don't have any Wiha pliers. Because Knipex....

I do have some Wiha Vietnam bits and they seem just as good as the German ones. I know it's heresy here to suggest that a worker in Vietnam could feed a hex bar of steel into a machine, possibly the same German steel, into that same identical machine that was used in Germany, and make an identical product.

 

[KnurledNut]

Recently picked up the Torx Plus IP3-IP20 Bit Selector set. No complaints.

 

[dnschmidt]

All of my Wiha drivers are made in Germany and are awesome; but they're all 5+ years old. So I don't know what they're doing now. I don't have any Wiha pliers. Because Knipex....

I do have some Wiha Vietnam bits and they seem just as good as the German ones. I know it's heresy here to suggest that a worker in Vietnam could feed a hex bar of steel into a machine, possibly the same German steel, into that same identical machine that was used in Germany, and make an identical product.

That's really what these guys are talking about although they will not admit it. How can some Vietnamese worker bee do the same thing as some German worker bee. These posts are simply another form of racism. By the way these same primitive people killed 50,000 Americans and kicked the most powerful country in the world out of their country. So they can't be that pathetic.

The hard reality is that unskilled labor is unskilled labor and as long as the engineering is done by first rate engineers using top of the line equipment a monkey can build whatever is required virtually anywhere in the world.