theoldwizard1
Well-known member
The Revolution MIG/TIG/Stick sure looks nice, but BOY is it expensive !
HTP anyone ?
- Thread starter theoldwizard1
- Start date
PelicanPines
ALLIANCE MEMBER
txvwnut
Well-known member
This Old Tony from YouTube just did a review on one. He liked it so much he’s having his other two HTP welders checked out by HTP and giving them away.
Jswain
Well-known member
I would like it too, if they sent me one for free
rlitman
Well-known member
Compared to what? A Miller Dynasty 210dx is arguably a far less capable machine, with a much higher price tag.
strutaeng
Well-known member
What's revulutionary about it? I was expecting to do some X-ray quality welding all by itself or something like that, LOL.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
I have a ProPulse 200 and for $2000, it's current price, it's a steal. The Revolution is a pulse MIG and stick welder combined with one of the best TIG machines ever made (the Invertig). It's not cheap but compared to RED, BLUE, AND YELLOW it's a hot smokin' deal. Theoldwizard1 you need to get out more.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
No worries Cam. It's made in Italy by STEL and they make some of the best machines in the world. Also, HTP really supports their products.
Ya they’re a quality product. And if I didn’t have a decent collection of blue and were in the market, it’d be a serious consideration.
vpd66
Well-known member
I also own a ProPulse 200 for about 5 years now. I weld everyday for a living with blue and red machines. Every time I weld with my HTP I can't believe how much nicer it is then the machines I use at work! I'm sure the Revolution is worth every penny. Also HTP has excellent customer service!
danski0224
Well-known member
It apparently took some work to get Tony to accept it for review, as stated in the video.I would like it too, if they sent me one for free
I certainly didn't get the impression that ToT is a shill for sponsorship from HTP.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
Tony bought with his own money the Propulse and the Invertig that HTP is going to refurbish first and then he's going to give away. He was exceptionally hesitant to accept Peter Zila's offer for a no strings attached Revolution but after much cajoling gave in. This Old Tony is no shill for HTP or anybody else for that manner.
slowtwitch73
Well-known member
I have their tig machine... nice unit, good company.
finn
Well-known member
Found the receipt for my HTP MiG welder the other day.
It’s dated 1987, about thirty seven years old now.
No complaints on my invertig, either. Hard to believe it’s coming up on 15 years old.
It’s dated 1987, about thirty seven years old now.
No complaints on my invertig, either. Hard to believe it’s coming up on 15 years old.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
What shocks me is this belief that only American companies know how to make a welder. How do the European and Japanese build bridges and metal stuff. Do you think that they use Miller or Lincoln? STEL is a top of the line European manufacturer of welding equipment and with Peter Zila now running HTP America (which STEL bought by the way). They can go toe to toe with anybody.
rlitman
Well-known member
I just looked up the receipt, and I bought my Miller Dynasty 200dx in 2004 for $2260. I'm sure I could sell it for more today, and it's been discontinued for some time now (mine even predates features added in later years). I'd have no second thoughts about replacing it with a Revolution if it died today. The good news is it takes the same 14 pin accessories, so my pedal and fingertip control could just move over.
OP
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Nothing against Peter, he is a great welder. But is he really a good business man ?
Farmall450
Well-known member
It's more impressive you still have a receipt from 1987!
finn
Well-known member
It was in with the papers for the gas bottle.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
He's run his own business for the last 15 years ever since he immigrated from Germany and has keep a roof over his wife's and children's heads all that time. I've met him and had lunch with him twice once at HTP and the second time at Fabtech with his wife and a friend of her’s. He's a smart dude.
Frankly I think he’s a lot better businessman than the founder of HTP was.
Jswain
Well-known member
I have nothing against HTP but it is human nature when gifted something at no cost your feelings for it are much higher then if you had to remove the money from your own bank account, which you worked for and purchased yourself.
I'd love a brand spanking new lifted 1 ton....not enough to seperate with the 90k tho, but I bet if someone bought me one I would have nothing but good things to say about it.
I do believe other countries can manufacture top notch products, I just wouldn't put much faith in watching YouTube reviews from ANYONE and using that to fuel your next purchase.
Obviously not a problem for you, but looking and I'm unsure if you even can buy HTP welders north of the border. There's probably 40 places (or more) you can get a miller/Lincoln/esab In Calgary alone, or parts/consumables etc. Everlast & primeweld both have dealers/online options as well.
If I lived in Italy it sure would be convenient though...
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finn
Well-known member
Jeff, the former owner of HTP, was in business selling welding equipment for over 35 years.
He started the business from nothing, and developed a strong following by catering to auto enthusiasts, a previously untapped market, so I wouldn’t cast aspersions on his business acumen.
He also developed a customer service reputation second to none in the industry.
driftpin
Well-known member
Revolution 2500
Revolution 2500 Videos Your browser does not support the video tag. The REVOLUTION Is Here! We have just sold out of the HTP Revolution 2500-but do not worry-more are on the way!! We should be getting a shipment in the next 10 days. If you want to make sure you get one, please give us a call to...
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Includes:
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The Revolution 2500 Steel package
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Welding Cart, Gas Bottle, MIG Gun Consumables/Parts (Except Those That Come Preinstalled on the Gun), MIG Welding Wire
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dnschmidt
Well-known member
My only problem with Jeff was that he was, in the business sense, timid. He didn't take chances very often and didn't push as hard as Peter is going to do. An example: HTP is headquartered in Chicago yet they have no presence at Fabtech. You correctly noted that they established a following with auto enthusiasts yet never a presence at SEMA. He always underordered his machines and were often stock out when customers with money burning a hole in their pocket wanted to buy a welder. With STEL and Peter now running the show these shortcomings should be lessened.
A good example is the automotive field. The Propulse is a damn good aluminum welder, with the right consumables, right out of the box. Modern cars are using more and more aluminum and the Propulse is ideal for this application as it doesn't need a clumsy spool gun. I'm not sure if Jeff ever really understood what he had. Peter does.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
I think part of HTPs small presence in the US is lack of distribution. I’ve never seen any HTP stuff distributed through any of the local welding suppliers, at least in the US. Maybe it’s done differently in Europe.
Most industries and businesses buy their welding equipment from their gas supplier. They’ll have a hard time getting any larger presence outside of the home or small shop unless they get their foot in a LWS that will carry their parts and consumables.
I know I wouldn’t even consider a welder that my LWS didn’t support. Even a free welder isn’t very useful if I can’t get consumables easily and quickly.
Most industries and businesses buy their welding equipment from their gas supplier. They’ll have a hard time getting any larger presence outside of the home or small shop unless they get their foot in a LWS that will carry their parts and consumables.
I know I wouldn’t even consider a welder that my LWS didn’t support. Even a free welder isn’t very useful if I can’t get consumables easily and quickly.
Jswain
Well-known member
Isn't most/all of the bodywork on the aluminum vehicles typically full panel / glued on nowadays?
Doubt any of the aluminum sheet metal is thick enough for a spool gun and most guys would be grabbing a tig welder anyways
Jswain
Well-known member
EXACTLY. With welders/plasmas/etc. You have the cheap imported stuff for very low price, the mid to high price imported stuff, and the expensive name brand stuff.
IMO the mid to high price imported stuff, regardless of brand is the biggest risk units to buy.
If I'm buying cheap import and it's 10-25% of name brand it may be a risk I am willing to take & consider it a consumable. Once you hit 50-75%, cant get any parts,service,help,anyone else with a similar unit locally etc. The gamble gets bigger.
Maybe their service over the phone is impeccable but I don't think there's a single place in Canuckadia to get service & shipping a welder gets expensive & takes a long time.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
Well, a lot of people like Fronius and they are considerably more expensive than HTP. With the ProPulse, you can weld aluminum sheet metal as that's what the "pulse" and double "pulse" functions enables you to do. In the automotive field Cebora is the leader in aluminum welding and they, like STEL, are Italian. I have never seen a TIG welder in any normal body shop. That's custom car builder stuff and the reason they love it is that they can plannish their welds down since TIG, and ox-acetylene welds are soft. Nobody in a collision shop has time, or for that matter the training, for that ****. Chip Foose does but Joe’s Bodyshop doesn’t.
finn
Well-known member
I pretty much agree, except I think the market is even more stratified than you described, with the super low priced “throwaway machines, the well respected, slightly more pricey, but still not name brand machines like Primeweld (3 year warranty and free shipping both ways), Eastwood (local welding shop switched to Eastwood, and reasons he can buy three for every one of the Millers he used to run)
The next tier is HTP who has an excellent reputation, but the target market hasn’t been heavy industry. Prices aren’t low, but competitive.
The top tier for industry seems to be Miller and Lincoln, especially considering they are available at any local welding shop.
The oddballs are the Fornius type suppliers. Top of the line, expensive, and no local service, just like the bottom tier imports or HTP for that matter. Not sure where ESAB fits in.
I went through this a month or two ago when I decided to replace my (less than well regarded) Millermatic 175.
I have two HTP machines, neither of which I have had any issues with, and a Primeweld. My short list was the HTP Revolution or ProPulse, the ESAB, Fornius, Miller, or Lincoln. I ended up with another Miller, a Multimatic 220, that popped up locally on Marketplace.
Bottom line is that I sort of succumbed to the “service trap”. I don’t think it’s really logical, unless you’re a heavy user in an industrial situation, as the likelihood of a failure is pretty low, and I’m not sure repair of a, say, twenty year old welder is really economically feasible, name brand or not, given the advances in technology, which will likely accelerate.
I used to have (sold it, didn't use it enough) an HTP wire feed mig, which I bought around 2002 or so. I had a number of problems with it, all of which were quickly solved by HTP. The first, and biggest one, was they sent the wrong thing. I'd bought a 120V machine, because I needed to be able to use it in some places where that was the only option. I got the right machine, but set up as 240V. (This was not even an option they listed as being available, but they sold them that way into some factories, they told me.) They sent a replacement control board and power cord, and someone gave me instructions over the phone on how to change the transformer tap. They offered to swap the machine, but that would have taken longer. I had a problem with the gas solenoid, just after the end of the warranty. Great support on the phone diagnosing the problem (I'd already done all that stuff, because it's pretty basic, but it was good to get a confirmation, and the guy on the phone was clearly used to doing phone support with people terrified of anything invovling a meter). They sent me a replacement valve at a good discount. All that was 20 years ago, so I don't know if they're still as good, but it was very impressive support, and I'm sure the machine was down less time than if I'd taken it to the shop to have it fixed (were it a brand my local welding stores worked on), and probably i had less time in fixing it than I would have taking it to the shop and picking it up when fixed.
rlitman
Well-known member
I had a similar conversation on the phone with their support when I bought my CK water cooled TIG torch. He walked me through all of the connections on my machine so I could purchase something that would just plug in and work the first try without any adaptors. Really first rate support.
I think the mail-order-only route is HTP's business model. Or at least it was at the start- someone will correct me if it's different now. I used to get mailers from them 15-20 years ago, I guess when they first started, and they were obviously targeting home users; guys that were restoring cars in their garage; and it seems they're still using this business model. They cut out the LWS markup and sell direct to the buyer at a lower cost; this is fine for a home user; this is the same person that owns almost nothing from Snap On.
I've been in a lot of machine and fab shops in 30 years as a mechanical design engineer. Almost all of these were "better" shops that had a QC program, a CMM.... and were qualified to do business with DOE, DOD, etc. I've never seen anything but Miller and Lincoln welders in any shop I've been to, and it's basically 10 blue to every one red. And this makes sense as the purchase price is essentially irrelevant when your overall cost is $100+ an hour for labor and a machine dies.
As far as consumables, is there anything considered a consumable on an HTP that you can't get locally?