Tools of Japan

[BlitzcrankJapan]

Has anyone compared KTC to nepros in wrenches? Curious as to the actual different other than polishing.

I have many of both.
I find the KTC wrenches to be much closer in style and feel to Stahwille. They are also slightly soft which I believe Stahwille are as well.
The Nepros wrenches are typical hard chrome and closer to Snap-On. As is typical with Nepros the fit always seems a little tighter than with the KTC wrenches.

With both KTC and Stahwille I have at least one of each wrench which has deformation marks from when I have slipped the wrench off of hard bolt heads.
I have never had this with either Snap-On or Nepros.

My preference for use is TopTul, SP Tools, KTC and Stahwille wrenches.
For ratchets and sockets I generally use KTC and Ko-Ken (also their Zeal range). I use TopTul and Ko-Ken for my travel box and off road use.

I have a fair bit of Snap-On but seldom use it. The only Snap-On I use often are the Line Wrenches.

 

[bpwoodworking]

Thank you for your detailed reply! This is very helpful. I have a lot of Stahlwille, so I can appreciate that comparison, I prefer them over hard chromed for my work since it does not require (typically) for me to wipe oil off of them.

Most of my build out for this new tool box has been Ko-Ken zeal, which I like a lot.

 

[mogandave]

Has anyone heard of Deen tools? Saw these in a retail shop today and I think they are Japanese.

 

[1foxracing]

Video of IPS pliers production.

 

[1foxracing]

Has anyone heard of Deen tools? Saw these in a retail shop today and I think they are Japanese.

They are the house brand of the Factory Gear stores in Japan. They are a Japanese brand but most of their stuff is made in Taiwan. I have a few things from them.

 

[Stubby1743]

The Deen brand name is well known to Japanese tool fans. As stated above, it is the house name for the Factory Gear shops. The tools can be made by any number of large manufacturers and are of generally good quality and certainly represent good value for money.

 

[mogandave]

They are the house brand of the Factory Gear stores in Japan. They are a Japanese brand but most of their stuff is made in Taiwan. I have a few things from them.

That makes sense, it was was ia Factory Gear store where I saw them. They has a lot of Snap-On and Blue Point stuff too, and a big Milwaukee department. Everything they were selling looked to be good stuff.

 

[4xdog]

Video of IPS pliers production.

Fun video. But, dayum, there were a TON of labor-intensive manual operations in that factory. Like going back seventy years or more.

 

[Jeff]

 

[HannibalLecter]

I'd like to ask, does anybody here have experience with combining non zeal koken sockets to zeal ratchets?
I love zeal ratchets but zeal sockets availability is simply not comparable to the non zeal offerings. Also, they run at almost twice the price!

 

[jmf535]

I'd like to ask, does anybody here have experience with combining non zeal koken sockets to zeal ratchets?
I love zeal ratchets but zeal sockets availability is simply not comparable to the non zeal offerings. Also, they run at almost twice the price!

The non z sockets still fit beautifully, and are not an issue on the z-series ratchets

 

[HannibalLecter]

The non z sockets still fit beautifully, and are not an issue on the z-series ratchets

Yeah, that's what interests me. I know other sockets will, fit of course, but is the compromise in fit great or not? I suppose it can't be that much of a difference but I thought I'd ask

 

[jmf535]

As far as the fit on the ratchet goes...there is no noticeable different between the z and non-z sockets. Now, when it comes to the fit on the business end of the socket, their is a noticeable different in fit, but I would hardly call it a "compromise"

I have z and non-z sockets, and end up using the non-z's the majority of the time

 

[Chrome Vanadium Cody]

Yeah, that's what interests me. I know other sockets will, fit of course, but is the compromise in fit great or not? I suppose it can't be that much of a difference but I thought I'd ask

I have one zeal ratchet I use with non zeal sockets. My socket rails are a yardsale special mishmash of every brand under the sun so feel I can give a decently broad sample.

Basically the ratchet holds sockets so tightly against the ratchet’s cover plate that they rub as they turn, increasing backdrag a little. The backdrag is still very good. And the trade off is that there’s no wobble between the socket and ratchet. I’m not sure if this still happens with zeal sockets. Overall I am happy with it for my use with non zeal sockets and would buy more if they offered knurled handles.

 

[HannibalLecter]

I have one zeal ratchet I use with non zeal sockets. My socket rails are a yardsale special mishmash of every brand under the sun so feel I can give a decently broad sample.

Basically the ratchet holds sockets so tightly against the ratchet’s cover plate that they rub as they turn, increasing backdrag a little. The backdrag is still very good. And the trade off is that there’s no wobble between the socket and ratchet. I’m not sure if this still happens with zeal sockets. Overall I am happy with it for my use with non zeal sockets and would buy more if they offered knurled handles.

hmm I see. I have a set of 3/8 zeal sockets to go with my zeal ratchet, I don't recall them rubbing. But I guess that could be brand and series specific.
My question arises because for sockets zeal is pretty limited in choice. Also, that goes for extensions. I love the knurled extensions and there are also many more lengths available. Same for nutgrip sockets, etc.

 

[Chrome Vanadium Cody]

hmm I see. I have a set of 3/8 zeal sockets to go with my zeal ratchet, I don't recall them rubbing. But I guess that could be brand and series specific.
My question arises because for sockets zeal is pretty limited in choice. Also, that goes for extensions. I love the knurled extensions and there are also many more lengths available. Same for nutgrip sockets, etc.

I see, I haven’t tried it with other Koken non zeal stuff. But for a sense of scale on how I rate this ratchet for use with mixed non zeal sockets it’s in 3/8” drive standard length fixed head so a top 5 most used ratchet for me. Before this my favorites were a dual 80 and a SK tuff 1 and the Koken leapfrogged them both. Sold the Snap On and sent the SK home. Would love to hear from others but it’s worked great for me

 

[bpwoodworking]

I haven’t noticed any rubbing either but they do fit really tightly which I think is good.

 

[Madjik Man]

I'd like to ask, does anybody here have experience with combining non zeal koken sockets to zeal ratchets?
I love zeal ratchets but zeal sockets availability is simply not comparable to the non zeal offerings. Also, they run at almost twice the price!

They work just fine. They don't have the super tight tolerance that the Zeal socket + Zeal ratchet combo but it's still a lot better than most every other Tawaiianese ratchet/socket combo I have.

 

[mattstevens]

I've noticed the rubbing thing with some of the nut grip sockets, but only on the 3/8 in 1/4 body ratchet I have. Doesn't happen with my regular size 3/8 ratchets and I've also never noticed it on the compact with their standard sockets. In actual use it's a very minor thing.

The only other z/non-z issue I've experienced is that on one of my 3/8 z spinners and two extensions some detents of the non-z sockets fit loose enough to freely rattle around. The same detents don't do this on the z ratchet anvils or any of the knurled extensions I have, so that's another reason to prefer those extensions. I also have other z spinners that don't do this so seems like a manufacturing tolerance thing with the detent ball.

 

[mogandave]

What is the difference between the Z and non-Z? tools?

 

[M6erfan]

What is the difference between the Z and non-Z? tools?

Z = tighter tolerances and smaller profiles.

Ko-ken Z-Series

Z-Series The Automotive mechanics new standard Compact. Koken Z-Series is designed for lower profile applications in difficult to get to locations. The Sockets within the Z-Series line are thin-wall and shorter in height than standard sockets. This development took place to ensure that our...

kokenusa.com

 

[Chrome Vanadium Cody]

I was curious so checked it with some sockets today and not every brand rubs. I think it’s kind of luck of the draw. Craftsman Gearwrench and Williams rubbed, Mac and Toptul didn’t.

 

[F-22]

What is the difference between the Z and non-Z? tools?

Non-Z are general use. Z is meant for tight spaces. Sockets are extra thin and extra shallow and have very tight tolerances on both ends (they hardly wobble when snapped on a Z ratchet or extension). Z ratchets have higher tooth counts for work in tight spaces.

Non-Z are basically the same as sockets from all other brands. In fact I'd say that if you can only have one, the non-Z sockets are a better choice.

I think all non-Z ratchets from Koken are low tooth count. Still wonderful ratchets though.

 

[mogandave]

Non-Z are general use. Z is meant for tight spaces. Sockets are extra thin and extra shallow and have very tight tolerances on both ends (they hardly wobble when snapped on a Z ratchet or extension). Z ratchets have higher tooth counts for work in tight spaces.

Non-Z are basically the same as sockets from all other brands. In fact I'd say that if you can only have one, the non-Z sockets are a better choice.

I think all non-Z ratchets from Koken are low tooth count. Still wonderful ratchets though.

I was just curious, I have too much stuff already,,,

 

[Loga_3]

Gentlemen!
The time has come to throw your Japanese Koken and Nepros in the trash, and invest in Yeon Cheer Fong Enterprise! Because they clearly are superior to Japanese made tools. At least that's what they think...

 

[toddmorr]

I know nothing about that brand but i sure wouldn't dismiss them offhand. Taiwan innovation and quality is excellent and getting better all the time, not that Japan is standing still but they tend to have a cost challenge

 

[M6erfan]

I know nothing about that brand but i sure wouldn't dismiss them offhand. Taiwan innovation and quality is excellent and getting better all the time, not that Japan is standing still but they tend to have a cost challenge

While I mostly agree, for true innovation, new tooling costs an awful lot of money. The quality of tools from Taiwan can be excellent, but I see a lot of "me too" out of their tools. A lot of rebranded same old same old. Again, quality can be excellent, but I'm not so sure that the innovation is on the same level.

I have socket designs that I would love to bring to market, but it would cost a lot of capital to produce and market them. Or, I could talk to the factories in Taiwan and see what they offer "off the shelf" and just rebrand them, for a fraction of what a truly "new" socket design would cost. It seems a lot of brands choose the later path.

 

[four.cycle]

Wiga / see Yeon Cheer Fong Enterprise Co. Ltd. /

Yeon / Yeon Cheer Fong Enterprise Co. Ltd., 1F No.84 Chienchih St., Eastern Dist., Taichung, Taiwan 40146 / http://www.wiga.com.tw/ / est. 1984 / "WIGA" tools /

They clearly don't have a huge following on GarageJournal.com - they're only mentioned once in a thread from 2018 - but that may or may not be an indicator of anything. There are so many Taiwanese tool makers that any of them could easily be lost in the morass.

I know nothing of them other than to say they do have some interesting chain tools that appear to be a bit more user-friendly than the tiny British-made unit I used to use on my 10-speed.

 

[HannibalLecter]

Just a heads up to everyone.
Mister worker carries Koken tools.
They ship to everywhere, finally more Koken availability in Europe

 

[Steve_P]

I know nothing about that brand but i sure wouldn't dismiss them offhand. Taiwan innovation and quality is excellent and getting better all the time, not that Japan is standing still but they tend to have a cost challenge

I agree. I'll add that I can't remember the last time that I was disappointed in a Taiwan made tool from a "name brand".

Koken's ratchet designs, even their "new" 72T design, are literally 100 years behind the well proven 90T designs coming out of Taiwan now- including from tiny brands like Capri and Tekton. And I have some Koken sockets and they are great. But Koken is just absolutely stuck in the past on their ratchets. Yes, I know, the backdrag, the knurling... it's orgasmic.... To some here.

 

[LWB]

I agree. I'll add that I can't remember the last time that I was disappointed in a Taiwan made tool from a "name brand".

Koken's ratchet designs, even their "new" 72T design, are literally 100 years behind the well proven 90T designs coming out of Taiwan now- including from tiny brands like Capri and Tekton. And I have some Koken sockets and they are great. But Koken is just absolutely stuck in the past on their ratchets. Yes, I know, the backdrag, the knurling... it's orgasmic.... To some here.

Same as Gray tools in Canada. C'mon boys.

 

[JWC86]

I agree. I'll add that I can't remember the last time that I was disappointed in a Taiwan made tool from a "name brand".

Koken's ratchet designs, even their "new" 72T design, are literally 100 years behind the well proven 90T designs coming out of Taiwan now- including from tiny brands like Capri and Tekton. And I have some Koken sockets and they are great. But Koken is just absolutely stuck in the past on their ratchets. Yes, I know, the backdrag, the knurling... it's orgasmic.... To some here.

I’m far from a Koken fan boy, In fact I think they are a little overrated on here also but in my opinion the Tekton ratchets I have/had are not anywhere near as nice as Koken. I’ve never handled a Capri so I can’t comment on that comparison.

 

[mogandave]

Gentlemen!
The time has come to throw your Japanese Koken and Nepros in the trash, and invest in Yeon Cheer Fong Enterprise! Because they clearly are superior to Japanese made tools. At least that's what they think...

In all fairness, they seem to be claiming their quality is comparable, for less money, not that they are "clearly superior".

I can remember when much/most of the Japanese stuff was junk.

 

[Outahere]

...Koken's ratchet designs, even their "new" 72T design, are literally 100 years behind the well proven 90T designs coming out of Taiwan now- including from tiny brands like Capri and Tekton...

I own ratchets from all three. I rank them Koken > Tekton >>> Capri. The backdrag on my 1/4" drive flex head Capri is very high, and I rarely use it because of that.

 

[bpwoodworking]

I replaced the ancient Par-X ratchets I used for most of my life with 72T KoKen, 90T nepros and (80T?) Stahlwille. They’re all better than the Par-X stuff for sure, but it's not life changing. They turn nuts, look pretty and are very enjoyable to use. They can get into tight spaces better for sure, and work in those tight spaces better, and the low backdrop can be nice.

So all that to say the Koken may be 100 years behind the newer 90T ratchets but the practical difference is negligible in my experience. They're a nice step forward from a really coarse tooth high backdrop ratchet like my old Par-X stuff but when comparing Koken 72 to something like Nepros 90T I don't notice much significant difference.

 

[Madjik Man]

I love my 90t Capris and 72t Kokens.

 

[HannibalLecter]

I replaced the ancient Par-X ratchets I used for most of my life with 72T KoKen, 90T nepros and (80T?) Stahlwille. They’re all better than the Par-X stuff for sure, but it's not life changing. They turn nuts, look pretty and are very enjoyable to use. They can get into tight spaces better for sure, and work in those tight spaces better, and the low backdrop can be nice.

So all that to say the Koken may be 100 years behind the newer 90T ratchets but the practical difference is negligible in my experience. They're a nice step forward from a really coarse tooth high backdrop ratchet like my old Par-X stuff but when comparing Koken 72 to something like Nepros 90T I don't notice much significant difference.

Why 100 years behind? People saying that for Koken? As the teeth number rises the difference becomes negligible. 36 vs 72 teeth is night and day, 72 vs 90 is not a huge factor for me.
I like the shape of Koken better than nepros, but for me the koken is ahead because not only of the minimal backdrag but the tighter interface. Also more tools available in the zeal series

 

[BlitzcrankJapan]

Does anybody know if Ko-Ken has a set of deep sockets that have a hex or square machined on the outside so they can be turned with a spanner?
I am looking for a set that could be used as "pass through" sockets. So must be hollow all the way as well so that a stud or bolt shank could pass through.
Usually an Allen key or Torx key is required to go down the center to hold an internal component.
I have found the Zeal spark plug sockets seem to be what I want. But of course they are only available in specific spark plug sizes. #3300CZ and #3305PZ.

Has anybody tried flare nut sockets for suspension / strut work? Such as #3300FN

I found #1203 which has a 10mm hex on the outside. But obviously it is only small sizes. 5mm to 10mm sockets.

#4300M is so close. But again only 3 wheel nut sockets sizes available.

Otherwise it looks like it has to be Taiwan made Bahco S530T pass through set.

 

[4xdog]

Does anybody know if Ko-Ken has a set of deep sockets that have a hex or square machined on the outside so they can be turned with a spanner?
I am looking for a set that could be used as "pass through" sockets. So must be hollow all the way as well so that a stud or bolt shank could pass through.
Usually an Allen key or Torx key is required to go down the center to hold an internal component.
I have found the Zeal spark plug sockets seem to be what I want. But of course they are only available in specific spark plug sizes. #3300CZ and #3305PZ.

Has anybody tried flare nut sockets for suspension / strut work? Such as #3300FN

I found #1203 which has a 10mm hex on the outside. But obviously it is only small sizes. 5mm to 10mm sockets.

#4300M is so close. But again only 3 wheel nut sockets sizes available.

Otherwise it looks like it has to be Taiwan made Bahco S530T pass through set.

Perhaps a set of clés à pipe (socket wrenches)? Common in Europe. Often available but rarely used elsewhere. It's a surprisingly convenient style when one gets used to it, and well suited to pass-through work. My friends in Europe will use a larger size on the free end of a smaller wrench to extend one's leverage. I guess the sizing was designed for this.

Here's one online example -- there are tons more. FACOM make very nice ones, but the ones I have branded by Bost and Stanley are quite good too.

https://www.master-outillage.com/474-jeu-de-cles-a-pipe

I've not seen these from a Japanese tool company, but it wouldn't surprise me at all, and in fact if someone has a reference, lemme know.


This diagram from the Toptul site shows how they can be used.

 

[Stubby1743]

The Ko-Ken catalogue in English can be found here:-

download｜Ko-ken Tools the web

Ko-ken Official Site

www.koken-tool.co.jp