Hot water heater leak

[Learninggal]

Folks

Our hot water heater in NYC manufacture date of 2012 (model PG50T09AVHOO) has started to leak a little from the bottom. In the picture below, we put our fingers on the inside and it is a little wet. There is also a little bit of water at the bottom on the inside. They opened up the relief valve and ran it till all the water came out, which is about 3 gallons and the water looks clear so I don’t think there is any sediment. Does this all point to the end I think being bad or do I have to do some additional troubleshooting and change the relief valve? We haven’t measured the psi and we don’t have any expansion tanks. It’s a 100 year old stucco home

 

[Fav Onefour]

I would be amazed if it isn't done.
Generally you would see some rust sediment with a flush if it's already leaking. You mentioned using the relief valve to drain. How about the drain valve?
There is a reason for the term sediment. It settles to the bottom.

 

[loganb]

Mine went out 2 weeks ago, once it starts leaking the end is near and delaying the replacement just increases the chance of a more significant failure dumping 20 to 40 gallons out. Replace it as quickly as you feasibly can

 

[cgrutt]

Yeah I'd replace it as soon as you see any leaking.

 

[driftpin]

You got 12 years out of it? The containment pan has wetness? The pressure relief valve popped?

Sounds like the appliance is done. Be ready for sticker shock.

Too-bad you didn't have results like we had at my in-laws' house, the date on the 30 gal. electric water heater was something like 1989, we replaced it this year as we converted it for a rental, and didn't want to have a water heater replacement with a new tenant.

 

[Learninggal]

I haven’t touched the drain valve yet, what should I be doing

 

[steel 35]

shopping

 

[rlitman]

Are the connections at the top showing signs of leaking (any corrosion)? If so, maybe you lucked out, and the leak isn't coming from the tank. But since you didn't mention this, I'm guessing the leak is from something non-repairable.

You got 11 years out of a 9 year warranty tank (9 years is the middle of the road). If you had changed the anode at year 6 it might still be fine, but once corrosion sets in you need to start shopping.

 

[Learninggal]

I checked the water at the base on the inside an hour ago and cleaned it up paper towels and it’s back. Seems like I have to replafe. I don’t see the pipe connections to the boiler corroded at the top

We’ve had issues with the chimney in the past so trying to stop using it completely. I’ll look at direct vent as an option and stay with a gas tank. I’ll look at gas tankless coats too but the conversion costs are probably too high. Electric rates too high in NYC to consider electric

 

[gizardlizard]

I just put a new 75 gallon Bradford White in my house as I converted the house from propane to NG. Cheapest I could find that water heater for was $2275.00. Had a bud get me a dented one new for $1000.00.

 

[cgrutt]

Replaced my MILs 50 gal gas water heater with a Rheem from Home Depot a few months ago it was about $800 IIRC.

 

[Learninggal]

What did the installation costs run you or was it DIY? I would actually like gas tankless but the install costs are going to be quite high in NYC, calling plumbing companies now

 

[Bucko]

That tank is done.
Best to replace before its an emergency on a holiday weekend and you have to pay a premium.
The term "they just don't make them like they use to" is very true for water heaters, 11 years is a good run these days.

 

[steel 35]

what size is that one?
I downsized my tank a few years ago & got a higher btu for 5 hundo's with sweat n change!
Never Run out of hot (now)

 

[cgrutt]

What did the installation costs run you or was it DIY? I would actually like gas tankless but the install costs are going to be quite high in NYC, calling plumbing companies now

I did it myself not hard to do just two supply lines and a gas fitting. Imagine tankless would be similar but if you're keeping at existing location for a full house probably not going to have "instant" heat due to cold water left in lines to fixtures. Good luck with NYC prices are out of control not too far outside NYC.

 

[Learninggal]

I have a 50 gallon currently. I have 2 bathrooms on the 2nd floor and 1 in the basement that's never been utilized and unlikely we will. It's handling fine for about 6 people but anymore, especially when relatives visit the last 1-2 people get luke warm water. I wonder if tankless will be able to hold at to this and if going with a bigger 75 gallon one is beneficial. But at the same time, I don't want to plan for just relatives who come down only once a year for a few days since I've been successful getting them to stagger all shower time over 4 hours

 

[cgrutt]

Personally if the 50 gal has been working fine except for a few days with company I'd stick with that. Probably most cost effective of the three alternatives. I've installed a few electric tankless systems for friends in summer cottages and they worked pretty good. Not being billed to keep water hot during the week when nobody was there. Not sure if you'll see same savings in a house with daily use. Same with 75 gal you'll be paying to keep 50% more water hot all year. Also likely will need additional installation costs on both tankless and 75 gal if existing plumbing needs to be reconfigured. If 50 gal has been meeting most of your needs just stick with it.

 

[isb cornbinder]

I haven’t touched the drain valve yet, what should I be doing

Call for help.

 

[Levaughn]

When I first moved to my house in 1994, I used to see a little water by the hot water tank, then it would disappear. I thought nothing of it. A friend was over and he mentioned the water and I brushed it off telling him it does that sometimes. That was the weekend. On Monday morning I went to get something out of the basement and I had a swimming pool. I have replaced it three times since then. The last time was about twelve years ago. I saw a little leak, panicked and changed it. I was going to PA for the weekend and didn't want another swimming pool when I got back. When I got back, I went to the basement to check it. I see a leak!!! It turns out I forgot to take the pressure off the weed sprayer sitting next to the hot water tank and it leaked on the floor. That's where the original leak was coming from. I changed the hot water tank for nothing.

 

[steel 35]

I was done at 6 people but No.
My tank was 50.
If they are relative's; cold water should be fine.

 

[nadogail]

Water Heaters are very highly engineered to last just beyond the expiration of their warranty.

Start shopping for a new heater and when I replace the water heaters in my rentals I use the flexible hoses with the Shark Bite connectors.

Using Shark Bites and those braided flexible hoses saves a lot of time and effort, my helper and I can usually get a replacement purchased and installed in only a few hours.

 

[thammel]

I have found that the key to long water heater life is regular anode rod replacement. I do this ever 1.5 years. It's shot at 2 years.

 

[loganb]

What did the installation costs run you or was it DIY? I would actually like gas tankless but the install costs are going to be quite high in NYC, calling plumbing companies now

I think you're going to have to get local quotes for replacement costs, but if you DIY it's not bad. My 50 gal tank type gas heater with 12 yr tank warranty was 799 at the local big box...for tank type's they're all pretty similar. I considered converting to tankless but the ducting install was a problem so just replaced the 40 gal with a 50 gal, otherwise direct replacement. Once I got home with the new unit was about 3 hours of work which included installing an expansion tank that was previously missing. I had the benefit though of a walkout basement so 0 stairs to take the old one up or the new one down.

 

[rlitman]

I have found that the key to long water heater life is regular anode rod replacement. I do this ever 1.5 years. It's shot at 2 years.

Anode longevity depends on your water chemistry, anode composition, tank temperature, and the presence of stray electrical currents. 2 years is a VERY short lifetime though. If you're going through anodes that quickly, you should probably use a powered anode.

 

[engineer2]

I keep an eye on prices and it's amazing that water heaters have about doubled in price in recent years. $650 for a 50 gal gas with a 9 year tank.
There was a post on Nextdoor by someone wondering if $3500 was too much to get their conventional water heater replaced. They used one of those plumbing companies that drive new trucks and advertise on TV all the time.

 

[Learninggal]

last year we installed on 96% efficient furnace and it has two PVC pipes for venting. Does it make sense to have the new hot water heater to share these PVCs for venting and is there a specific type of hot water heater I would need to purchase. Obviously I am consulting with local plumbing company store but nobody is going to come visit till Tuesday.

 

[loganb]

last year we installed on 96% efficient furnace and it has two PVC pipes for venting. Does it make sense to have the new hot water heater to share these PVCs for venting and is there a specific type of hot water heater I would need to purchase. Obviously I am consulting with local plumbing company store but nobody is going to come visit till Tuesday.

I looked at the install instructions from the major manufacturers and couldn't find any who listed sharing ducting with another appliance as an approved method. Could it be done...sure.....will it work.....maybe....will it likely void any warranty due to an unsupported installation....probable. I have a similar setup with 3" PVC already for the furnace right there....but wasn't going to risk both the furnace and the water heater possibly not working well(or worse problems if exhaust gas not properly existing) to gain that couple of square feet of floor space.

 

[Learninggal]

Only thing I'm concerned about with new PVC holes they will have to create through my exterior wall which is 12 inches thick which will drive up the costs considerably. I wish the water heater companies would support sharing vents. After all it's just one for combustion air and another for exhaust and the PVC pipes are big enough to accommodate

 

[loganb]

Only thing I'm concerned about with new PVC holes they will have to create through my exterior wall which is 12 inches thick which will drive up the costs considerably. I wish the water heater companies would support sharing vents. After all it's just one for combustion air and another for exhaust and the PVC pipes are big enough to accommodate

I'm not in the water heater industry so no inside knowledge....but my assumption is that the lack of documented support comes down to it likely being essentially impossible to get that certified/approved by the resulting testing groups, insurance underwriters etc

If you have X BTU of water heater, with this sizing of pipe, it can share a furnace with Y rating as long as the distance between the tie in is Y feet apart, but if it's this type of furnace it has a special emergency heat mode that requires a 30% larger exhaust for a couple seconds and if that occurs at the same time as water heater calls for heat we may produce too much back pressure causing one to not work....etc etc. Having to document all the possible combinations of heaters it's supported with and have the associated testing for each one to back up that is just an enormously expensive proposition....and it realistically only benefits a portion of the replacement market. New construction...no worries....the cost of the pipe is nothing...the penetrations and siding boxes/vent hoods/labor to properly seal up will cost more than the pipe.

From a manufacturer/liability/legal standpoint I don't see any easy path other than "no shared ducting" and move on

Now if someone comes back with manufacturers documentation showing shared ducting for a residential space I'm going to be interested...then probably see the price and remind myself that the space savings isn't worth it to replace the now new tank type.

 

[bb29510]

tank leaking, time to go to lowes and get a new one

 

[PoorUB]

What did the installation costs run you or was it DIY? I would actually like gas tankless but the install costs are going to be quite high in NYC, calling plumbing companies now

Tank less requires a good gas supply. You will need 200,000 BTU or more depending on how large of family you have.

To put it in some sort of perspective, I sold tank less units and I have a cheap 40 gallon standing pilot water heater in my home. I thought seriously about putting in tank less and I couldn't justify the cost, and I could buy at wholesale and install myself!

 

[steel 35]

I only did stuff for two bosses;
Till my wife took over, RTFM comes to here.
I believe that's what code goes buy.

 

[nickstar]

Water Heaters are very highly engineered to last just beyond the expiration of their warranty.

Start shopping for a new heater and when I replace the water heaters in my rentals I use the flexible hoses with the Shark Bite connectors.

Using Shark Bites and those braided flexible hoses saves a lot of time and effort, my helper and I can usually get a replacement purchased and installed in only a few hours.

I had a 4 family (4 separate utilities water heater, furnace etc.) rental plus our primary residence for 20 years or so. We relocated 6 years ago and cashed out. I agree that the flex hose and "shark bites" are great in exposed areas. I have never had one fail yet. Also, I have gotten a minimum of 7 years out of a tank, the most I have had one last is 15 years. Just changed our tank (1st one in this house) in crawl space in May. It took me more time to get the tank at store than put it in.

 

[mikedodge]

I just replaced our water heater.
I bought those shark bite hoses then saw a ton of bad reviews about them about the rubber hose inside them breaking down and leaving a black mess in the plumbing, tub and sinks and connected it with normal copper pipe again. Replacing sections of pipe with multiple couplings from previous tank replacements in the process.

 

[Uncle murph]

Folks

Our hot water heater in NYC manufacture date of 2012 (model PG50T09AVHOO) has started to leak a little from the bottom. In the picture below, we put our fingers on the inside and it is a little wet. There is also a little bit of water at the bottom on the inside. They opened up the relief valve and ran it till all the water came out, which is about 3 gallons and the water looks clear so I don’t think there is any sediment. Does this all point to the end I think being bad or do I have to do some additional troubleshooting and change the relief valve? We haven’t measured the psi and we don’t have any expansion tanks. It’s a 100 year old stucco home

You can’t get it out of there fast enough,if it’s leaking,it’s done.

 

[75gmck25]

We replaced our old gas water heater with a 50 gal power vent water heater because the power vent only needed a 2" PVC pipe through the wall as a flue. It's a little noisy because the power vent fan runs every time it heats, but it works well.

Our old gas water heater had just vented into the same flue as the gas boiler, and the flue was original to 1940. We ran a new metal B vent flue for the boiler, but weren't sure about sharing a water heater vent and how it affected the warranty.

 

[Learninggal]

In case I go the route of using a plumber who does side jobs, they don't mind if I order it myself. However, I know Home Depot models aren't as reliable as the ones professional plumbing companies get. Hence, what's an online resource that does provide the same high quality models - supply house or some others or should I just look for local plumbing stores? Are the actual model numbers different? Thanks

Also do you think I can get away with 40 gallons? Are these more efficient reheating than my old one from 12 years ago?

 

[Jackfre]

When considering only the install cost of the tankless vs a new tank you have to first consider the water heater vent. You mention it as being a problem all ready. The WH is a part of a “system” not only water and gas but the flue gas as well. The tankless will eliminate the natural draft flue.

 

[pima67]

We had a 40 gal and my wife and I took showers every work morning and had 2 teenage boys. Never ran out of hot water. Didn't try to run dishwasher or clothes washer at the same time.
When we added a spool (pool/spa) with a heater, we had to have the gas company install a larger supply meter even though we had a gas water heater and 2 gas furnaces. Gas instant heater may also require that also.

 

[CraigStu]

The least expensive solution will be to just buy a current version of what you have now. A gas tankless needs a huge gas line compared to a standard gas heater. An electric tankless needs a huge chunk of wire run from a dedicated breaker. You can imagine snaking that through walls or ceilings. Once you decide how you will go a heater may be available in several sizes. I might go to 50 gal if it is a reasonable bump but I wouldn't feel a real need to do that from what you describe.