auto body hammers and dollies?

[metalmagpie]

I acquired a pair of auto body hammers from an estate sale some time ago, mostly because they looked cool to me. I know squat about hammering sheet metal. One of these hammers was made by Fairmount and the other by Plvmb aka Plomb aka Proto (as the company was called later). These turned out to be high quality hammers. Also, sometime in the last 15 years a dolly showed up in my shop. I knew what it was but not that it was called a toe dolly.

Over the last few weeks I've become interested in fixing small issues with sheet metal things I'm making, for which auto body techniques are useful. So I started looking for other body repair tools. Yesterday I picked up a used set of 3 hammers and 4 dollies. The guy had banged on some stuff with them and they were a little dented, nicked and corroded, but they only cost $20. Yesterday I worked on dressing all these tools with the idea being to remove all of the dents and restore everything to smooth curves with no flat spots. I started with an 80 grit belt on my belt grinder and was able to make everything look a whole lot better. I will be working my way through finer grits and then polishing them on a buffing wheel.

I still don't have quite the hammers I need. I got some old catalogs from Fairmount and Plvmb and noticed that there are pretty standard numbers for these hammers. I picked out one I could use, number 1427. So I searched on "hammer 1427" and what I saw was surprising. You can buy that shape of hammer and pay anywhere from $12 to about $80, the one being Chinese and the other being one of the premium brands. Now, that's a really big spread. So here's my question:

What do you get for spending six times as much to get the top brand hammer vs. the cheapest one? Are auto body hammers hardened? I'm sure if you drop forged a hammer head from tool steel and then very carefully polished it it would be worth more money than some kind of cast hammer with its working faces quickly sanded to approximate smoothness. But six times more?

I'd like to hear from someone who knows this stuff. Also, am I asking this question in the right place?

metalmagpie

 

[NDJ]

Try asking this in the "Fabrication techniques" subforum. If you are lucky an experienced guy like MP&C may answer.
In my small experience, the cheap chinese hammers and dollys are not hardened to any real amount, And they will pick up dents and sharp dings that will transfer to whatever you are beating on. Its possible the chinese stuff quality varies alot. If they are case hardened , It will probably be thin.
I started off with the cheap stuff. Then I got some some Martin brand. They are nice.

 

[ZRX61]

Genuine 1427's are sought after. I have two

 

[NYBODYMAN]

Quality hammers are well balanced and are best for metal finishing panels. The cheap Chinese hammers and dollies can be used to push metal and get things somewhat close but if you are looking to metal finish, quality hammers are a must.

 

[metalmagpie]

Genuine 1427's are sought after. I have two

Want to sell one?

 

[e015475]

Martin published a pamphlet called "The Key to Metal Bumping" by Frank Sargent. It is available on Amazona as a reprint and is well worth reading. It is the best primer I've found on using a hammer and a dolly.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GUZP4O/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The difference in a Chinese hammer and a Martin/Fairmont/Plomb is night and day.

The Chinese hammers and dollys are usually cast and not forged. They are soft and prone to dent and mar

The radius on the face of the hammer on Chinese products is usually poorly formed and difficult to get a good finish with when raising a dent. You'd like to have a selection of hammers, each with a different radii on the face - higher radius for rough-in work and lower crowns for finishing. I've tried putting a proper radius on the face of Chinese hammers and its an exercise in futility - it is still a turd

Chinese body hammers are poorly balanced and heavy, usually with a fiberglass handle. IMO a slender hickory handle is the best.

If you do a lot of planishing or raising up dents with a body hammer, it is well worth your time to sand the face and polish it to a mirror finish once in a while.

I've never been able to make a shrinking hammer work - Chinese or otherwise.

My 2 cents

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Genuine 1427's are sought after. I have two

I went on a spree some years ago with Pvmb and Proto 1427's. I have six or seven of them now. (no I don't want to sell any) I also have a few more body hammers. Thankfully I haven't bought any in the last few years. This is one of my drawers. I have more in other drawers/boxes. I do use them though for work so I'm not just accumulating them.

 

[Bill Bowman]

You can beat on a piece of metal with a rock and tree stump. You will find a well balanced professional hammer and quality dolly perform much better, and be able to control the metal better after some on the job training.

As mentioned earlier, read the book by Frank Sargent. Body Repair 101.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

I've never been able to make a shrinking hammer work - Chinese or otherwise.

Completely useless. All they do is displace and mar the metal. They don't shrink it. Complete waste of money. If you have one you are better off grinding the waffle face off so that you can at least use the hammer.

 

[senlow]

Completely useless. All they do is displace and mar the metal. They don't shrink it. Complete waste of money. If you have one you are better off grinding the awful face off so that you can at least use the hammer.

Fixed it for you.

 

[ZRX61]

I went on a spree some years ago with Pvmb and Proto 1427's. I have six or seven of them now. (no I don't want to sell any) I also have a few more body hammers. Thankfully I haven't bought any in the last few years. This is one of my drawers. I have more in other drawers/boxes. I do use them though for work so I'm not just accumulating them.

I see three 1427's in that pic...possibly 4

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Just quit for the night. Took a pic. 7 in this pic. I have a couple more in another box.

 

[nadogail]

I last had a Body Hammer in my hand in 1957, High School Auto Shop.

 

[Ricky Joe]

Want to sell one?

I’ve got one if you are interested. I don’t really do body work, but have acquired some hammers and Dollie’s over the years. I made the mistake of buying Chinese at one point. I’d gladly pay six times the price for a good hammer. Most of mine are Snap-on, Blue Point, Fairmount, and Bonney. Let me know if you are interested. If you want the Chinese, you can have them for the cost of shipping. Others fairly priced.

 

[Zeke]

I have the book that @e015475 suggested. It is the best you'll find. Very old school and you'll need a torch. MAPP gas is good enough.
Also there is a lot of mystery about the shrinking disc. They do work on steel.

 

[mrbill55]

I went on a spree some years ago with Pvmb and Proto 1427's. I have six or seven of them now. (no I don't want to sell any) I also have a few more body hammers. Thankfully I haven't bought any in the last few years. This is one of my drawers. I have more in other drawers/boxes. I do use them though for work so I'm not just accumulating them.

Hoarder

When I had my shop, at most, I had maybe a dozen different body hammers, picks were in a different drawer, same goes for spooner. Unsure if you'll even need all of those in your lifetime.


Bill S.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Hoarder

When I had my shop, at most, I had maybe a dozen different body hammers, picks were in a different drawer, same goes for spooner. Unsure if you'll even need all of those in your lifetime.


Bill S.

I won't but I do like having a selection. Actually many of them have different faces and I've ground a few to profiles that I want like reverses similar to a Snap-On BF615. I am also into metalshaping and the person I learned from (Peter Tommasini) works by hand a lot and the various hammers do different tasks. But yes you are correct unlikely to need them all, but nice to have.

 

[mrbill55]

But yes you are correct unlikely to need them all, but nice to have.

I've always been one of those "better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it" type of guys.....However, once I stepped away from the business, I found myself slowly selling off my specialty tools, even my half wall toolbox(s) and such....I still have enough to get the job done, no matter which car in my collection, or anything on property.....Just out of the metalcraft 100%.

Now, with that said, how about posting some of your metalwork, I can never get enough of what others are creating with their own two hands these days.

Bill S.

 

[e015475]

I bumped the grill slats for the truck in my avatar before I sent them out to plating. Used a peen-end body hammer and a thumb dolly for most of it

After I'd metal worked it, I filed it, sanded it then polished them on this monster to see if I could find any imperfections.

Here's a picture of the final product

 

[e015475]

Raising low spots on a rear fender for a 52 MGTD. Shot bags are old bank deposit bags filled with sand and wrapped with a lot of duct tape!

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Raising low spots on a rear fender for a 52 MGTD. Shot bags are old bank deposit bags filled with sand and wrapped with a lot of duct tape!

You never realize you need sandbags until you have them. Perfect for holding stuff like that. Nice work as well.

 

[Copymutt]

It gets trickier when the panels are still on the vehicle. Today I employed a small hydraulic jack, a short timber & a 3/16” section of plate beat to the curve of the quarter panel. Timber locked against the truck frame w/ c clamps. Plate against the back side of the large dent & bottle jack from there to the frame. It was a learning curve of teasing just beyond the desired conformity, but worked like a charm.

 

[NYBODYMAN]

I like where this thread is headed!

@Chris_Hamilton that's an impressive hammer collection!

 

[Kentc]

I went on a spree some years ago with Pvmb and Proto 1427's. I have six or seven of them now. (no I don't want to sell any) I also have a few more body hammers. Thankfully I haven't bought any in the last few years. This is one of my drawers. I have more in other drawers/boxes. I do use them though for work so I'm not just accumulating them.

I realize I am replying to an old post here but I have never seen that many body hammers in a drawer in my life. What typically fails on them, causing you to buy a new one?

 

[metalmagpie]

I’ve got one if you are interested. I don’t really do body work, but have acquired some hammers and Dollie’s over the years. I made the mistake of buying Chinese at one point. I’d gladly pay six times the price for a good hammer. Most of mine are Snap-on, Blue Point, Fairmount, and Bonney. Let me know if you are interested. If you want the Chinese, you can have them for the cost of shipping. Others fairly priced.

I was out of the country when you posted this and I never saw it until today. If you have a 1427 or equivalent I am interested.

metalmagpie

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

I realize I am replying to an old post here but I have never seen that many body hammers in a drawer in my life. What typically fails on them, causing you to buy a new one?

Nothing typically fails with a body hammer if they don't get abused. Why do I have so many? Good question. I probably have around 100 quality hammers in that box. Most either old USA made stuff like Plvmb/Proto, Porter Ferguson, Fairmount, Blue Point, Snap-On etc, and some German Picard hammers as well as a very special hammer I got from Peter Tommasini in Australia. I like quality old stuff. The old body hammers are far superior to what's available now as even the quality manufacturer don't use as good a steel as they did 60-75+ years ago.

I do this for a living (paint/body/metal) and I use many of them daily. I have some duplicates (triplicates and quads or more) but many in that box are not. Different contour faces for different purposes. If I took all my body hammers out and lined up all them no duplicates it would number probably 70-75? IDK. Most of them have a slightly different purpose or use. Just what I've accumulated over 30+ years. I haven't bought any in a while though so that's good.

 

[Kentc]

Nothing typically fails with a body hammer if they don't get abused. Why do I have so many? Good question. I probably have around 100 quality hammers in that box. Most either old USA made stuff like Plvmb/Proto, Porter Ferguson, Fairmount, Blue Point, Snap-On etc, and some German Picard hammers as well as a very special hammer I got from Peter Tommasini in Australia. I like quality old stuff. The old body hammers are far superior to what's available now as even the quality manufacturer don't use as good a steel as they did 60-75+ years ago.

I do this for a living (paint/body/metal) and I use many of them daily. I have some duplicates (triplicates and quads or more) but many in that box are not. Different contour faces for different purposes. If I took all my body hammers out and lined up all them no duplicates it would number probably 70-75? IDK. Most of them have a slightly different purpose or use. Just what I've accumulated over 30+ years. I haven't bought any in a while though so that's good.

Any benefits to the wood style vs. fiberglass? I see Martin and a few others have a fiberglass option which seems like a longer term alternative but wood handles seem to be most common.

 

[cgrutt]

Any benefits to the wood style vs. fiberglass? I see Martin and a few others have a fiberglass option which seems like a longer term alternative but wood handles seem to be most common.

I think it's a personal preference thing more than anything else. Fiberglass is more durable and won't loosen up as easily if used aggressively. Old school thinking is wood has much better feel, you get fewer blisters etc. I had a good friend who was an awesome body guy trained in Germany usually only worked on BMW/Mercedes/Porsche etc. He only had wood handles in his shop and barked if some of his workers brought newer technology into his shop lol. I have a handful of Martin body hammers, spoons and dollies. The hammers all have wood handles...

 

[mreisner]

I think it's a personal preference thing more than anything else. Fiberglass is more durable and won't loosen up as easily if used aggressively. Old school thinking is wood has much better feel, you get fewer blisters etc. I had a good friend who was an awesome body guy trained in Germany usually only worked on BMW/Mercedes/Porsche etc. He only had wood handles in his shop and barked if some of his workers brought newer technology into his shop lol. I have a handful of Martin body hammers, spoons and dollies. The hammers all have wood handles...

I believe Snap on and Mac US made body hammers are made by Martin.

 

[cgrutt]

I believe Snap on and Mac US made body hammers are made by Martin.

Wouldn't surprise me but I have no idea.

 

[NYBODYMAN]

I agree it's personal preference (fiberglass vs. wood). I personally prefer wood handles.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Snap On makes their own hammers. AFAIK. They are nothing like Martin hammers. I think at one time Sykes Pickavant made Snap On hammers and dollies but I am not 100% on that. Or perhaps it was Snap On making Sykes. I have some Sykes dollys that are identical to old Blue Point dollys.

Martin definitely made body tools for Mac and Matco though. All their stuff is rebranded Martin.

Any benefits to the wood style vs. fiberglass? I see Martin and a few others have a fiberglass option which seems like a longer term alternative but wood handles seem to be most common.

100% I want only wood handles. Wood gives a certain amount of feel. Fiberglass handle hammers don't. They feel "dead" when in your hand while using. Average guy who is whacking out something it may not make a difference, but skilled guys who use them everyday know the difference and want to use wood. As for longevity, if you are doing something that is causing the handle to be damaged then you are truly abusing the tool and should rethink what you are doing.

Body hammers are precision tools and with proper care a handle should last a lifetime. Or at least never be damaged when using it. I've broken one handle when I stepped on the hammer while it was laying on the floor on something else (while working) but that's the only time.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

The best new body hammers and dollies you can get are made by Picard in Germany.

 

[Kentc]

The best new body hammers and dollies you can get are made by Picard in Germany.

I have heard of Picard! Is there a big difference between them and Martin?

I think Picard was bought by Halder Hammers. Have you ever used or heard of them? They make some great replaceable soft faced hammers IMO. Tough to beat German quality!

 

[Kentc]

I agree it's personal preference (fiberglass vs. wood). I personally prefer wood handles.

I appreciate the feedback. Have you ever had to replace one? What was the cause?

 

[NYBODYMAN]

I appreciate the feedback. Have you ever had to replace one? What was the cause?

I have a S&G Tool Aid chisel end body hammer that was my go to in the collision shop. I abused the hell out of it and eventually cracked the handle requiring replacement. That's about it.