Issue with variance - damage to driveway from construction vehicles?

[MikeC55]

I'm planning an addition to my single story house that will add a basement level 2 car garage with living space above (approx. 600 sq ft). THe existing basement is walk out on the side of house where I plan to add, so excavation will be at a minimum. It's really the only logical place to put an addition but, as luck would have it, the set back on that side of the property is 50 feet and the addition would put one corner at 41 feet. A minor variance.... he he. I got my survey and applied for the variance. The zoning board recommends you get letters from abutting property neighbors saying the have no objection to the variance. Of the 3 neighbor, 2 have signed my (ghost written) letter stating such. The 3rd neighbor has 'concerns' which appear to center on the damage the concrete truck and material delivery truck will cause to the private shared driveway. The mostly level driveway dates to 1956, is not in great shape and gets very little maintenance. It is some sort of macadam surface and not especially flat. There are no bridges or soft ground and in fact, there is a lot of ledge rock in the area (southwest, Ct), so chances are, the ground is quite solid under it. This neighbor contends that the heavy construction vehicles will accelerate the damage to the driveway and so is against the variance (the addition wouldn't even be visible from his house).

I have a very hard time believing that a trip up and down the driveway by a concrete truck is going to measurably accelerate the deterioration of the surface. It's isn't like the heavy trucks will be driving back and forth, day after day.... I'm not building a McMansion... Maybe this is a ploy to try and pin the cost of re-doing the driveway on me, alone? I also question if this objection would even be considered by the board since it is, in essence, a private road and has nothing to do with the variance requested (IMHO). I have discussed it with them and explained that no matter what size addtion I put on the house, a concrete truck and heavy equipment will be involved. I am also of the opinion that if I can't do a full, 2 car garage add on, it probably isn't worth doing at all and I do have the option of simply selling the house and then they will have to hope the new neighbor will be content with a small, 2 br house (1350 sq ft). This is an area where it's not unheard of for small older houses to be knocked down and replaced with much bigger ones (mostly 1 -2 acre lots).

Any thoughts? My meeting with zoning board is a week out. I don't know if they actually reached out to talk to the neighbors. Is are a few passes by heavy vehicles going to destroy the road?

 

[yellowbox]

It's a shared drive , **** em

 

[PCustoms]

It's a shared drive , **** em

While I agree, sounds like that 1 person can shut it all down....

How long is the driveway?

 

[75gmck25]

How far is it from the street to where you want to pour concrete?

When they built my house they used a pour truck with a really large overhead boom mechanism (or whatever its called) that allowed the truck to sit in the street while they poured a 3500 sq ft concrete slab that started out 25 feet from the street, and then extended about another 25 feet back. The pour truck had a hopper on it, and they used multiple cement trucks to keep filling the hopper until the pour was down.

I don't have any idea how expensive it was, since it was built into the price of the house.

 

[Spud McGee]

My little concrete driveway got completely destroyed in the process of building my garage. It was putting up a good fight. A dump truck delivering fill dirt put a little hurting on it. 2 concrete trucks driving over it murdered it.

It is what it is. I figured going into it that the trucks would destroy it, and if they did, I budgeted to have the driveway repaired. I think your neighbor is right to be concerned. And I think you should offer him a written contract. If the process of completing your project causes visible damage to the driveway, you will pay to repair it properly and promptly.

The other options include pumping it or carting it. Those will add cost to the project, but will probably be a lot less than the cost of replacing a decent sized driveway.

Make sure you understand the whole process of building the garage and what all other equipment will be going in and out. Its probably not just gonna be a single concrete truck.

 

[Rusted Nut]

Whether a concrete truck will harm the road, has nothing to do with building in the setback. Present the letter, it doesn’t say against building in the setback. And yes, a concrete can damage a road.

 

[klhansen]

My neighbor built a giant addition in back of his house and they used a concrete pump rig with a giant boom all the way over the house and directly to the slab. The concrete trucks rolled up to it and discharged concrete into the hopper, which was then pumped over the house. I'd guess the distance was well longer than 50 ft.

 

[MOS3522]

F the neighbor, quite honestly. There is no legal requirement (at least in my state) that a variance have no objections. Objections if any are considered at the zoning board hearing. Based on what I read of your background no zoning board would turn down the variance. The neighbor's objection have no relation to the scope of the project and you have the right to drive whatever the heck you want up and down your shared driveway anyway.

If the board does turn you down then hire some loaded dump trucks to drive up and down the driveway for 2 weeks. No need for a variance for that.

 

[MikeC55]

The drivway is around 400 feet long. As to weather this will shut the project down, we'll see. How thick was the concrete? It's hard to image that properly prepared gound, with a 4" thick slab should be 'destroyed'. Here, I'm talking about a macadam road, 60 plus years old, full of cracks, no maintenace, where is it going to go? I don't want to be a jerk about it but I'm sure as hell not going to pay more than 33.3% of the repaving cost. I did recetly have a setic guy bring over his excavator to dig some holes for a soil test. He had a 1960's vintage diesel cab with a large steel trailer and excavator. I didn't even think about the weight when he parked the rig in my driveway (inside my property line), asphalt pavement ~ 20 years old. No damage that I could see and the macadam shared road didn't look any different afterward. Maybe the town knows who I might call do do some kind of meaniful assessment.

 

[MikeC55]

Maybe call some of the nearby concrete suppliers? How heavy is your average cement mixer truck?

 

[Rusted Nut]

The drivway is around 400 feet long. As to weather this will shut the project down, we'll see. How thick was the concrete? It's hard to image that properly prepared gound, with a 4" thick slab should be 'destroyed'.

I’ve seen a number of 8” thick city sidewalks and driveway approaches destroyed by concrete trucks. However if the shared road has not been maintained, I wouldn’t worry too much.

 

[Youngandfree]

Zoning board RECOMMENDS 3 letters is not the same as REQUIRES 3 letters.

 

[turbowoodworker]

OP says the current drive is quite old and not in great shape.
I would consider two options. Price the extra cost of a pump truck, or talk to neighbor with an offer. If the driveway has not been maintained and needs work, see if neighbor on shared driveway would go half with you for new drive. Then budget for it.
Concrete pump truck might be easiest option. You’ll need to present that option to the variance board.

 

[GrayFlattop]

The drivway is around 400 feet long. As to weather this will shut the project down, we'll see. How thick was the concrete? It's hard to image that properly prepared gound, with a 4" thick slab should be 'destroyed'. Here, I'm talking about a macadam road, 60 plus years old, full of cracks, no maintenace, where is it going to go? I don't want to be a jerk about it but I'm sure as hell not going to pay more than 33.3% of the repaving cost. I did recetly have a setic guy bring over his excavator to dig some holes for a soil test. He had a 1960's vintage diesel cab with a large steel trailer and excavator. I didn't even think about the weight when he parked the rig in my driveway (inside my property line), asphalt pavement ~ 20 years old. No damage that I could see and the macadam shared road didn't look any different afterward. Maybe the town knows who I might call do do some kind of meaniful assessment.

Document the condition of the driveway very closely before any construction work begins. Use video and still photos from each direction.

BUT if your work diminishes the value of the neighbors property, you should try to make it right.

A concrete truck can absolutely damage a sub-standard driveway. It can even damage a well built driveway and your ready mix supplier will probably make you sign a waiver if the driveway looks sketchy. You’re probably too far to pump the concrete, so your best option might be carting the concrete in using a powered bucket truck called a “Georgia buggy” - they hold about a half yard so the overall weight is a fraction of a ready mix truck. They are available for rental. If you are placing a lot of concrete, you can use two in a tag-team type of operation.

 

[bluedog225]

Deleted

 

[wssix99]

One easy thing you can do is enforce a speed limit for the concrete trucks. In addition to their weight, the other factors that impact damage is speed and the road being wet.

Maybe see if your neighbor would agree to doing concrete on a dry day and you enforcing a 5mph speed limit? You might also buy your neighbors tickets to Wally World the day you are pouring concrete so they aren't around to witness it.

 

[Youngandfree]

OP says the current drive is quite old and not in great shape.
I would consider two options. Price the extra cost of a pump truck, or talk to neighbor with an offer. If the driveway has not been maintained and needs work, see if neighbor on shared driveway would go half with you for new drive. Then budget for it.
Concrete pump truck might be easiest option. You’ll need to present that option to the variance board.

He said it's 400ft long

 

[T66sc3]

Talk to the neibhor again and instead of talking about selling the house if the project is declined tell them about your dump truck purchase if it is.

 

[MikeC55]

I'm at the end of the 400 foot driveway and the truck would probably be backing in, so I don't think speed will be an issue. One thing I thought about was what other heavy trucks use the driveway? We all use fuel oil to heat, I imagine those delivery trucks are faily heavy but I've not been able to get an extimate via google. I think your average fuel oil delivery truck holds around 1000-2000 gallons (any ideas on what such a truck weighs?). Maybe the oil company knows... Also, the garbage truck... I found a biy more info on concrete trucks; A full load in a 'standard size' mixer truck is 66 - 72K pounds, according to one site. I assume this is around 10 cu yds.

 

[MikeC55]

Out of curiosity, any idea how much added cost of pumping the concrete 400 feet (slightly down hill? It seems a small concrete line pump could do this and according to google, it may add around $1,000 to cost of job. We have known the neighbors for many years and have not had any problems before, so this was a bit of a surprise. I am going to discuss it with them and try to determine if the driveway is the real issue or something else.

 

[PCustoms]

Pics of the driveway?

Someone else suggested it already, make an agreement with the neighbor to repair/upgrade the drive to make them happy so you get their blessings on the variance.

Also, what agreement is currently in place regarding the maintenance of the drive?

 

[vavet]

Does the objecting neighbor have a wife?

 

[Firebrick43]

I'm at the end of the 400 foot driveway and the truck would probably be backing in, so I don't think speed will be an issue. One thing I thought about was what other heavy trucks use the driveway? We all use fuel oil to heat, I imagine those delivery trucks are faily heavy but I've not been able to get an extimate via google. I think your average fuel oil delivery truck holds around 1000-2000 gallons (any ideas on what such a truck weighs?). Maybe the oil company knows... Also, the garbage truck... I found a biy more info on concrete trucks; A full load in a 'standard size' mixer truck is 66 - 72K pounds, according to one site. I assume this is around 10 cu yds.

Our company uses a class 7 single axle KW to deliver heating oil.

If they are loaded to max legal weight they weight 32000 lbs

 

[Innovate1]

Any other roads closer than 400 feet? I don't know much about pumping concrete but that's a lot of distance. When our house foundation was done they used a big conveyor rig so the trucks could stay in the drive avoiding the soft ground but that was under 100 feet.

 

[jack stand]

What's the chances presenting this to the board with 2 out of 3 approving (neighbors) with the 3rd being out of sight of the project? Tell them that it seems that the 3rd is only looking for you to pay the bill to repair a driveway that's "shot" already.
Is there a recorded document or agreement discussing the driveway maintenance or repair? (Common use)
The trouble is comparing an already crappy driveway, pre construction and assessing post construction conditions.

 

[Firebrick43]

Out of curiosity, any idea how much added cost of pumping the concrete 400 feet (slightly down hill? It seems a small concrete line pump could do this and according to google, it may add around $1,000 to cost of job. We have known the neighbors for many years and have not had any problems before, so this was a bit of a surprise. I am going to discuss it with them and try to determine if the driveway is the real issue or something else.

Here a line pump is 250$ the first hour and 1/2 that for each additional hour.

You concrete guys will hate you for trying to use a line pump on walls.

 

[ctandc72]

All depends on your state laws. Who actually OWNS the 'shared driveway' - in my state that matters. I live on a shared drive. All the people who chimed in with "screw that guy" - I bet you all are great neighbors.

Is there an agreement on who maintains the 'shared drive'?

That's the reason I live on land, and the neighbors I do have, I researched and actually got to know them a bit before we put an offer in.

Why not go to the neighbor in question and you know - talk to them? If they are a big pain in the ***, why would you want to spend a ton of money and live in a house NEXT to them?

 

[Magnum440d100]

Shared driveway, as in you use it too?

I’d have no problem driving the concrete truck down the poorly maintained surface.

Then repairing anything that gets effed up. After all, I would benefit from the repair and better condition of said driveway as well.

Just my free $0.02 though.

 

[LOW1]

A variance is discretionary and you are not entitled to it. So the board can consider anything it wants to.

And concern for the driveway is a reasonable concern.

Perhaps an after construction repaired driveway with the cost split 75 - 25 would work?

 

[MikeC55]

Thanks, Firebrick, on the fuel oil truck weight. My uncle and his wife used to own this place and I know my uncle didn't always see eye to eye with the neighbor but they were civil with each other. THis is the first time I've had to deal with him on something like this. He has snow plowed the road for years with his own rig and never asked for payment but am pretty sure there has never been any kind of maintenance agreement on the shared driveway. CTandC72, you hit the nail on the head; " If they are a big pain in the ***, why would you want to spend a ton of money and live in a house NEXT to them?". I am going to try and find out what is the root of their problem with this and if I get a feeling this will be happening anytime I make property improvements, I will look to move elsewhere.

As for using the line pump on walls, unless code requires it, I assume the garage-level walls will be CBU, just like the rest of the basement (unless code doesn't allow that anymore). So footers and basement slab. I guesstimate around 20 yards of concrete...

 

[Firebrick43]

Thanks, Firebrick, on the fuel oil truck weight. My uncle and his wife used to own this place and I know my uncle didn't always see eye to eye with the neighbor but they were civil with each other. THis is the first time I've had to deal with him on something like this. He has snow plowed the road for years with his own rig and never asked for payment but am pretty sure there has never been any kind of maintenance agreement on the shared driveway. CTandC72, you hit the nail on the head; " If they are a big pain in the ***, why would you want to spend a ton of money and live in a house NEXT to them?". I am going to try and find out what is the root of their problem with this and if I get a feeling this will be happening anytime I make property improvements, I will look to move elsewhere.

As for using the line pump on walls, unless code requires it, I assume the garage-level walls will be CBU, just like the rest of the basement (unless code doesn't allow that anymore). So footers and basement slab. I guesstimate around 20 yards of concrete...

Line pumps are ok for slabs. The hose guy still isn’t the happiest but it’s a hell of a lot easier than doing walls.

I thought my flat work guys were going to kiss me when they found out I hired a boom pumper to do the basement slab. I used it on the walls as well but it was a different pour.

 

[PCustoms]

He has snow plowed the road for years with his own rig and never asked for payment but am pretty sure there has never been any kind of maintenance agreement on the shared driveway.

@MikeC55 Before any additional advice is given here I think it's very important to understand whom"owns" the driveway and what agreement is in place for sharing.

This is a very different situation depending on if you own and let him use it ow the other way around.

 

[jonesg]

I'm planning an addition to my single story house

I have a very hard time believing that a trip up and down the driveway by a concrete truck

Then just do it.
if it gets damaged repair it on your dime.
seein as you have a "very hard time" recognizing the risk as real.
you implicate yourself as just wanting what you want.

 

[racecougar]

He has snow plowed the road for years with his own rig and never asked for payment but am pretty sure there has never been any kind of maintenance agreement on the shared driveway.

So the guy plows the road for his other two neighbors for years, doesn't ask for anything in return, presents his concerns about the very real possibility of your concrete deliveries damaging the road that he partially owns, and the response is to say "screw that guy"? Come on.

I agree with those above that suggest either to present an offer to repair any damage to the road out of your own pocket or cover 50% of the cost to re-pave the road afterward (with the other two neighbors each covering 25%). The neighbor absolutely has the right to be concerned.

 

[MikeC55]

I got a rough estimate of $1500 to line pump 2 trucks of concrete (20 yards) up to 550 feet. This would be a lot less than eating 50% of re-pave on a 400 foot driveway (vs. 33.3 %). A full load for a 10 yard concrete truck is approx. 70,000 lbs but that's spread over several tires.
As far as ownership, the deed simply says "said premises are coveyed together with a 20 foot right of way leading in a westerly direction to ABCDEF road" (the nearest public road). I imagine it says something like that on the neighbor's deeds. I guess it won't hurt to take a bunch of photos and videos so I have a 'before construction' condition documented of the driveway. Fixing it could be nothing more than a few bags of cold patch too....

 

[Zeke]

Here everyone within so many hundred feet must be notified. IDK if they all have to sign off but pretty sure the abutting neighbors do. I've seen some ridiculous mcmansions go up that shouldn't have. Again, IDK how that worked.

But it sounds to me like this neighbor is using the driveway as an excuse to just not come out and say he doesn't want it. I guess you have to figure out what the next move is for your area. 400' of planking or plywood isn't going to be practical and neither is building a dirt road (if that is even possible).

My final advice to anyone wanting to build is find the house you want and buy it. Adding on never returns 100% of the money until some time has passed and RE values go up anyway. There are studies on ROI for anything you can think of. Nothing makes a profit unless a flipper gets a good deal and makes some nice eye appealing improvements. I never see flippers adding sq footage.

 

[CraigStu]

The problem I have seen w/ concrete and triple axle dumps is not the plain rolling on the driveway. It is the going off the driveway midway, and the fact that those 6 big tires do a lot more scraping sideways than rolling when the truck is turning from road to drive. Also, when backing in from the road, they can't make as tight a turn as a car or small truck, so the inevitably cut off the corner. So hope you don't have a steel culvert. I spent several hours fixing my culvert pipe after a stone delivery.

 

[zak77]

So you have a "right of way" over someone else's property and if said property does get damaged, then you will be responsible. In my experience, variances can be decided by neighbors. If they're cool with what is being done then it will have a much greater chance of passing but if someone objects, then the board really has to examine the concern. It will come down to the board members to decide whether or not this neighbor's objections are warranted or frivolous and make a decision accordingly. When people object to something, they will put in the effort to get their voice heard, typically in person at the public hearing so you can probably expect this neighbor to show up and speak. Try your best to appease him prior to the hearing but if you just cant convince the guy, then just be prepared to counter his claims with true solutions and not BS. The more the neighbor's are ok with what's being done the smoother and easier it is.

 

[Old Moparz]

I'm planning an addition to my single story house that will add a basement level 2 car garage with living space above (approx. 600 sq ft). THe existing basement is walk out on the side of house where I plan to add, so excavation will be at a minimum. It's really the only logical place to put an addition but, as luck would have it, the set back on that side of the property is 50 feet and the addition would put one corner at 41 feet. A minor variance.... he he. I got my survey and applied for the variance. The zoning board recommends you get letters from abutting property neighbors saying the have no objection to the variance. Of the 3 neighbor, 2 have signed my (ghost written) letter stating such. The 3rd neighbor has 'concerns' which appear to center on the damage the concrete truck and material delivery truck will cause to the private shared driveway. The mostly level driveway dates to 1956, is not in great shape and gets very little maintenance. It is some sort of macadam surface and not especially flat. There are no bridges or soft ground and in fact, there is a lot of ledge rock in the area (southwest, Ct), so chances are, the ground is quite solid under it. This neighbor contends that the heavy construction vehicles will accelerate the damage to the driveway and so is against the variance (the addition wouldn't even be visible from his house).

I have a very hard time believing that a trip up and down the driveway by a concrete truck is going to measurably accelerate the deterioration of the surface. It's isn't like the heavy trucks will be driving back and forth, day after day.... I'm not building a McMansion... Maybe this is a ploy to try and pin the cost of re-doing the driveway on me, alone? I also question if this objection would even be considered by the board since it is, in essence, a private road and has nothing to do with the variance requested (IMHO). I have discussed it with them and explained that no matter what size addtion I put on the house, a concrete truck and heavy equipment will be involved. I am also of the opinion that if I can't do a full, 2 car garage add on, it probably isn't worth doing at all and I do have the option of simply selling the house and then they will have to hope the new neighbor will be content with a small, 2 br house (1350 sq ft). This is an area where it's not unheard of for small older houses to be knocked down and replaced with much bigger ones (mostly 1 -2 acre lots).

Any thoughts? My meeting with zoning board is a week out. I don't know if they actually reached out to talk to the neighbors. Is are a few passes by heavy vehicles going to destroy the road?

If the only issue this neighbor has is the potential damage of a shared driveway it seems that the zoning board may not issue the approval unless you are willing to foot the bill to repair it & promise it in writing. Yeah, it's not quite fair but these boards are very political at times & rules & laws can go out the window.

If you can show the board what the weight of the concrete truck will be, as well as fuel delivery trucks & any other heavy vehicle that has been up & down the driveway, it may prove your neighbor's complaint to be irrelevant & they may decide to ignore his complaint. It may also be to your advantage to take lots of photos of the existing condition for future reference.

Good luck.

 

[RPH]

No cement buggies? I’ve seen them here use cement buggies to carry loads into property around here. They used a buggy to bring the cement into the barn. Renting a few might be the cheapest and safest way to deliver 20 yards.