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Pros & Cons of Polyurethane Foam Insulation

gto65goat

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Maryland, USA
I saw a segment on TV for the DIY (Do It Yourself), showing a homeowner using Polyurethane Foam in between the 16" on center wall studs.
This foam takes the place of the rolled fiberglass insulation most of us are familiar with.
I'm wondering if any of the forum members have used?
Is the "R" value the same or better?
Your likes and dislikes about the product?
Thank you,
John
 
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autoist

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Aug 20, 2005
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My entire house is done that way...only I used 6" thick foam attached to the rear of 6" beams placed 4' on center...I sandwiched the 4x8x6" foam between a sheet of sheetrock & OSB & bolted it to the rear of the posts - from the inside you see the posts & the sheetrock (no taping or floating!).....from the outside its a continuous wrap of OSB.

House is like a styrofoam cooler...its May in north Alabama & the AC hasn't come on yet - won't until June sometime - & the heating unit hasn't run since February....I can go until Sep or Nov without turning on the heating unit.
 

dps

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The R value is higher for the foam. The good news is that it is much more pleasant to work with (no itching), the bad is that you have to be careful fitting it. Since it's rigid, it won't conform to irregularities, and if you leave gaps it won't work as well as fiberglass would have since it conforms to the edges.
 

arbee

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Apex, NC
autoist, I'd like to see some pictures of your house under construction and finished.
 

PAToyota

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The bad is that you have to be careful fitting it. Since it's rigid, it won't conform to irregularities, and if you leave gaps it won't work as well as fiberglass would have since it conforms to the edges.

Actually, the best thing to do is cut it a bit small and then seal the gap with the expanding foam from a can. That way it is assuredly fully sealed.
 

StingRay

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I had my garage spray foamed last summer. PU foam has an R value of around R 7 per inch. In a 2 x 4 wall that will give you in excess of R20 but not cost the price of 2 x 6 framing. Foam in general stops the air convection loops found in less dense products like fiberglass and will be more energy efficient because of it. Foams typically are moisture and pest proof and generally do not require vapor barriers. If sprayed in they will totally air seal the envelope it's applied to which will also add the the overall efficiency. When sprayed it will also dramatically increase the structures stiffness and will also make for a nice quiet building. If sprayed no exterior air barriers like tyvek will be required either. On the down side it's expensive but I don't see energy getting cheaper any time soon either. If spayed you need to find a competant contractor. If they don't they can leave a helluva mess and even cause problems with wiring ( ask me how I know). My contractor was not experienced with stud frame and it took over a week to clean it back to stud level. Wiring was pushed out of the cavity and when shaving back to the studs some wiring was damaged and required repairs. This is not easy to do when it's burried under 3 grand worth of foam!
 

carguy123

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DFW
Unfortunately when it comes to foam it's not Foam is Foam is Foam. There are several types of foam out there. So you can't just say foam is great without saying what type of foam. And you can't compare without comparing the pricing differentials.

It would be like talking about dirt or soils. Everyone on this list has dirt around their house, but the soil types vary wildly which greatly influences building techniques and problems.

The foam being pushed the most by the installers is the one with the most profit potential for them. It is cheapest and the one most trouble prone in the long run.

Foam installers push the soft foam vs. the hard foam. The soft foam is known as a sponge in the industry. It costs less than a third the of the cost of the hard foam so their profit margin is higher because most people think any kind of foam will do. The soft foam has a much lower R value per inch and also retains water. So that leak in your roof or wall line will cause it to remain wet and your wall will rot. Check with the foam suppliers and find out which one they'd install in their own house.

I dont' remember the exact values but in researching foam companies for installation in the house I am currently building I found that the companies that pushed to fill the void with foam were pushing the soft foam and even with filling the void (vs. the skim coat they try to get you to buy) they couldn't equal the R value of a couple of inches of the hard foam.

The soft foam IS a better sound barrier and any foam does seal the house better than any other method.

When I built I used a full OSB exterior wall, Tyvek, PLUS I added 1" thick foam sheets with all joints taped (foam effectiveness falls off near a joint) which gave me a very tight seal so I wasn't as concerned about the extra sealing a sprayed foam would give me as much as people with normal construction would have been.

Due to the price differentials, I ended up with blown cellulose in the walls and a foam barrier under the roof line simply due to costs. A plus is that cellulose is quieter than the soft foam. This whole package cost me about $8,000 vs. the $21,000-$23,000. I simply couldn't justify the difference in price. I didn't get a substandard insulation factor as this gave me a minimum R21 in the walls and R45 in the ceilings.

When the build process began I had 3 bids for foam and they ran from $11,000-$13,000. When it came time to actually install the foam all 3 bids mysteriously jumped to $21,000-$23,000. Come to find out that is normal in the industry. If they told you the actual price of the foam up front you'd never do it. So they get you to build for the foam (like leaving off the radiant barrier to your roof decking) so that you feel you don't have a choice and will bite the bullet when the time comes to install.

So asking is foam worth it is like asking is an engine worth it in my car. What kind of engine are we talking about here? Do you want mileage or performance? Due to the ignorance factor of the public, when it comes to foam, the installers are able to install a VW engine but charge for a Ferrari engine.

With all that said, I am installing DIY VersaFoam in my metal shop walls because of the price. I know it isn't anything near as nice as the "real stuff", but it will quieten down the shop, give me a solid surface to work with for cladding the interior and is a whole lot better for the interior construction I will be doing than either fiberglass or foam. At about $700 for 400 sq feet it makes sense.
 
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...dave

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South Carolina
With all that said, I am installing DIY VersaFoam in my metal shop walls because of the price. I know it isn't anything near as nice as the "real stuff", but it will quieten down the shop, give me a solid surface to work with for cladding the interior and is a whole lot better for the interior construction I will be doing than either fiberglass or foam. At about $700 for 400 sq feet it makes sense.

Just a thought... have you looked into purchasing binary urethane foam and creating your own injection system? It looks as though you could save serious bucks on materials if you get the compound in bulk from US Composites or someone like that.

Interesting idea, i can see where wiring could end up being a serious issue, though.

...dave
 

trivialpersuit

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Mar 12, 2009
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Hi...my name is Renee. I worked in the contruction trades years ago and came across these post trying to get more info on spray foam. I want to do something to an exterior walls to help sound proof and add some R value too.

When reading the post from carguy123, so blown cellulose is exterior walls is better for sound than soft foam and then you so I'll understand the steps, you added 1" foam sheets, taping the joints, then is the OSB, then Tyvek added? And this gave you a R21 + value in your walls. Could you tell me what kind of foam barrier you used for your ceilings?

Thanks
 

Sundowner

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West Milford, NJ
I looked into the blown foam for my house. Like carguy said, it comes in many different flavors. All things equal, I would have preferred the ridgid closed cell sprayed-in foam for the full thickness of the walls, and I would have paid double or maybe even triple what the 'glass bats cost me( $3200), but the BEST PRICE I could get on the ridgid foam was $27,000. (The open cell sparay in was more like $10k, but not as high R value and not additional structural benefit)

Now, I've been a bridge engineer for a looong time and the concept of sticker shock has been beaten out of me. But when I got THAT estimate, I blew up all over the guy and offered suggestions on where his estimate could go whilst he retreated from my property.
 
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BooUrns!

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Now, I've been a bridge engineer for a looong time and the concept of sticker shock has been beaten out of me. But when I got THAT estimate, I blew up all over the guy and offered suggestions on where his estimate could go whilst he retreated from my property.

:lol_hitti:lol_hitti:lol_hitti

I was fortunate enough to be in a different city and received the quote by email but I had the exact same reaction. My total insulation package with batts cost $4500 for all material and the sprayfoam estimate was around $26K. They specified 2lb foam but didn't state whether is was polyisocyanurate or polyurethane. I'm assuming it was urethane.
 

jklingel

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Frbnks, AK
I've looked at foam several times over the years, and you have to really need it to afford it. Perhaps on hard-to-insulate surfaces like pipes, narrow slits, etc, but on a wall? No way can I afford it. It is great for R value, and it conforms to irregularities, obviously, but I don't think it is a true vapor barrier, like visqueen is. The foam (not sure what type) that is used in one of the SIP systems has a perm rating of 1, and they claim it is its own vapor barrier. Up here, we need a perm of 0.1, and building w/ SIPs requires visqueen. Depending on your climate, I'd probably never install foam as a VB without consulting competent engineers, city codes, etc. Besides, what is the big deal about running visqueen up your wall just to be sure? Just my 2 cents.
 

RobSmith

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NSW Australia
What do you do when you want to put in another power point or something. You can't just drop a wire down the wall. You've got to bore a tunnel ?
 

rsanter

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visalia ca
the R value for many of the foams is not better than the fiberglass. the EFFECTIVE R value may be higher though because they wat the foam is done reduces air leaks and insulation voids

bob
 

Ironcrow

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Sep 30, 2005
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Arizona
To the posters who had bids for urethane, how many square feet of wall? 2x6 wall? I want to work out a guestimate for my small addition. I found one website that said $1.25 to $2.25 per square foot depending on thickness of wall.
 
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Ezzie

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Oct 15, 2007
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Lake Chapala, Jalisco
What about just spraying on about 1" of high-density closed cell polyurethane to act as an air seal and then frame a standard 2" x 4" stud wall agaist it with R16 fiberglass batts, 6 mil poly vapour barrier and then finish panelling? Wouldn't that be the most cost effective method and get the best of both worlds?
 

walrus

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Maine
I cut and fit foam, polyurethane, between the studs of my 2 by 6 framed addition. Caulked small gaps, can foamed bigger gaps and then laid 1" over the studs to decouple the studs, stop heat transfer thru the studs.
I live in MAine and have no heat in this addition(16 by 24) and it works fine.
When I build my shop I'm going to put 2" foam over the outside of the studs before I sheath it and then r19 fiberglass..

Here is good website on insulation

www.buildingscience.com
 

walrus

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What about just spraying on about 1" of high-density closed cell polyurethane to act as an air seal and then frame a standard 2" x 4" stud wall agaist it with R16 fiberglass batts, 6 mil poly vapour barrier and then finish panelling? Wouldn't that be the most cost effective method and get the best of both worlds?

The foam would be a vapor barrier so you wouldn't want another on the inside.
 

Chadwilliam1

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Cincinnati
is there any new knowledge on this subject. I emailed my builder about going to spray foam insulation instead of fiberglass. I am skeptical though that it is worth it and I don't know that they will Do a good job.
 
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